HiAndTight

Haven't seen a whole lot of people making this argument.

And for what little it's worth....Packers listed as one of the "winners" in the first round.

So....nothing on your thoughts on the Packers picking Aaron Rodgers? I asked a straight forward question and got an emotional answer. For the record, if you EVER expect ANY player to be as good as or have to match Aaron Rodgers in order for a pick to be successful...well, lets just say, it's not hard to see why you're CONSTANTLY disappointed with every draft from pretty much every team you root for.

I think you're going to hear a LOT of Packers fans who are unhappy with this pick citing his 2019 stats(and ignoring his 2018 stats) over the next few weeks. If you mean that actual executives and people who make decisions don't care...I think you're mostly right. It is always better to see production in college than poor stats. But it tells such a small part of the story...ESPECIALLY with Love. With Burrow on the other hand...I think the stats are helpful.

I was just shocked he kept falling. I really think if there wasn't this whole Covid lockdown and more teams watched him work out, he'd have been gone long before he was just based on his physical tools. But it IS disappointing in the short term to not see a 13-3 team that lost in the NFCCG add someone who's going to help immediately. I totally understand why people aren't excited about this pick.

Well that is exactly what you're doing. If you know how much the deck was stacked against him and the ONLY thing you post is a negative stat line from 3 games vs power 5 teams, you're not telling the whole story. You ARE "just stating statistical facts," while omitting all relevant context. Telling only one part of a story is skewing the story and JUST that is painting a picture. His stat line from last year is obviously troubling...but you don't need to watch much to see what he COULD become at the same time. All I heard about this guy was that he had a Patrick Mahomes-esque ceiling...but he also had a very low floor. So AGAIN, it's easy to see why fans are upset about a QB while we still have a HOF QB and a team coming off a NFCCG loss...but if it hits it becomes a no-brainer.

I understand why people wanted a guy to help right now. I remember watching the Packers pick Aaron Rodgers and thinking the same thing. I don't understand people being so short sighted as we're in the midst of one of the greatest QB's of all time whom drafted at almost exactly the same play in the 1st round and almost exactly the same point in the previous HOF QB's career. I mean..we had Brett Favre, we were a playoff team that lost to the Vikings and had holes and people wanted to take another shot before Favre's career came to an end just like we are now. And would one single person even try to argue that we were wrong to take the QB in the first ahead of other players who could provide more immediate help the last time around?

How did you feel about the selection of Aaron Rodgers?

Didn't he lost like..10 of the top 11 returning offensive players, like his top 6 receivers, the entire OL and get a new system? I don't know what it was exactly, but it was a pretty ridiculous amount of turnover. He was pretty dynamic the year before.

The two teams are pretty similar. If anything, this years version is closer and more talented than the 2004 team. Tony Fischer a backup RB was 3rd in receptions that year. Ahman Green was toward the end. They did have Driver and Walker...though of course the next year they lost Walker early and went 4-12. 2005 5'8 Antonio Chatman was the #2 WR'er, a career return man. Again, that's not to say that I disagree with the pick of Love. I honestly think it's a little foolish to get too worked up until we get 2 or 3 years down the road and have a better idea of what type of player the guy actually turns out to be.

His play the last couple years has regressed the last couple years but I don't know if that's him or if that was the knee injury and then the lack of talent on the outside+ a new scheme. The Packers sure don't mind taking big shots in the 1st round though. That much is pretty clear at this point.

You think some of that is on Rodgers? He doesn't seem to have a lot of patience for young players and MVS had nice stretches, but then made some mistakes and disappeared last year. St. Brown and MVS both have plenty of talent...but lots of players do. The difference between the elite WR'ers at that level and the guys who don't make it is often pretty small.

I'm sticking with Tonyan for one more year. He what turned out to be a pretty serious core injury he suffered vs Dallas. When he came back he was mostly a blocker, but he's got a lot of talent and not much in front of him.

My only issue is that they traded up. I mean, I sorta have a disappointed feeling like I did when we took Rodgers because you don't get that instant gratification and that player that's likely to make an impact in year one. I thought if he fell to them they almost had to take him though. The guy is extremely talented and I saw a lot of people who had him as a potential top 10 pick going to the Chargers until recently. It makes a lot of sense and he's got such insane upside...but just like when we had Favre, it was hard to get too excited about Aaron Rodgers at the time we made the pick, it's hard to get excited about a QB when we were in the NFCCG and have holes at WR'er and MLB'er. Now if he reaches his potential, this is going to be looked back as a "no-brainer" just like the Rodgers pick was in the years since we drafted him.

Oh...that's interesting. Just jump to the two conference leaders and have them play. I think I'd prefer that over the potential of the Clippers. I do think this could potentially lead to the NBA starting the season later and taking advantage of the Summer a bit more. Start the season around December 25th or shortly before that. I've heard Barkley argue for this in the past and others advocating this more recently and it's made quite a bit of sense.

He also said that he thinks there will be another big outbreak in the US coming this Fall BUT that we'll be more better prepared for it. That's essentially what happened with the Spanish Flu. It was bad the first Spring, bottomed out the ensuing Summer, the following Fall was the deadliest time period and then that following spring was worse than the previous spring but not as bad as that fall. Obviously things are much-much different now than they were in 1918-1920, but I'd imagine we're going to be dealing with this to some degree for much longer than anyone anticipated a few months ago.

100% this. They never tell the truth about anything, ANYTHING! Why anyone would believe them now is beyond me. Of course their numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. That said, they're also an authoritarian regime, so it's a lot easier for them to stop the morons like we have having coronavirus parties and whatnot.

I thought the same thing. He looked better than I thought...at times. Though I believe he was rated as the 2nd or 3rd worst blocking TE. The Packers are going to need an MVS, St. Brown, Tonyan, one of those guys who's athletic and has a lot of upside to break out next year regardless of what they do in the draft. I'm really hoping they grab either Jones the OT from Houston or Laviska Shenault in the 1st round...with Jones being the preference. But unless they end up trading for a WR'ers(really wish they'd have talked to the Texans) they're only going to get so much from whatever rookie they draft.

I never suggested the last Quarter of the season didn't matter. I said that LeBron shouldn't have been able to catch Giannis after 3-4 games given the lead he'd created. You claimed I've said this before and I had to tell you that was not the case. My argument has been about as simple and straight forward as possible. Giannis is easily the Move Valuable Player and that shouldn't have changed over a few games. That's it. You are adding these additional hypotheticals and then assiging that argument to me. If Giannis misses 10 more games and IF LeBron does X THEN it wouldn't be crazy for the vote to be close. None of which I argued and I said as much after you said that the first time.

I agree with pretty much every position, but I'd probably swap safety and RB. I disagree that Greene is "just a guy" at safety. He came back last year ready to play that hybrid box safety position and was off to a great start before the ankle injury. I think getting him back on the field and healthy will make a huge difference. He came back last year and looked like a totally different guy. Added about 15-20 pounds and quite a bit of muscle. I think you're really overrating the RB position however. Just going back the last 20 or so years I think we've had multiple backfields that were at least as good as this current group and arguably better if you factor in health. Ahman Green, Davenport, Fischer. We Lacy and Starks was a really good duo and then Kuhn was a good short yardage back. The best and most versatile was probably Levens, Bennett and Hendeson in the Super Bowl years. But moving forward, given just how important the play action game is and how that outside zone run is the key to SO many different plays the Packers run, you really need another good, reliable back in the mix. Williams is a good, solid hard runner, but he doesn't have very good vision. It's really infuriating to watch Jones out there and then watch Williams come in for him and totally miss the cutback lanes that Jones would have hit. Jones looks like a young star, but he's missed quite a few games and even if he hadn't, he's a smaller guy and you probably don't want to count on him for the 285 touches he got this year. Our offensive scheme is pretty much the same as the 49ers, Rams, Falcons. What they've had in common is when they've thrived, they've had multiple backs who could take over. Tevin Coleman and Freeman in Atlanta, Coleman, Massert, Brieda in SF and with the Rams you could see how they really lived and died with Todd Gurley. When he played and played well, they were very good on offense. When he struggled, they struggled. Maybe we pick a guy up cheap in free agency. Kareem Hunt's available....that's certainly be a risky addition, but if you could pick him up for cheap, just in terms of talent, you'd be getting a #1 caliber back for backup money. I'm sure that's unlikely, but I'd definitely like to see someone. I'd really use the template that the Falcons or the 49'ers have created for how to run this Shanahan style offense.

Remember for our DLine, they’re not taught or paid to dominate. They’re taught to occupy blockers and create opportunities for our linebackers. If we want to push towards a 4-3 again, then the DLine can be asked to try to dominate. Then again, we haven’t really used 4-3 or 3-4 in years, as our base defense has been nickel This was under Capers. With Pettine's defense the DL is asked to disrupt and try and penetrate a lot more. That's one of the reasons why Pettine was so high on Adams before the season and talking about how he had the best off-season of any defensive player(him and Raven Greene anyway). Teams like the Rams run a 34 but want their DL to get upfield and not just occupy blockers. The Jets were the same when they had that great front with Wilkerson and Williams.

You just keep saying, "no," but you're not telling me why. Anthony Davis plays on the same Lakers teams...he has a higher PER and is leading LeBron in Win Shares. And is a better defensive player. Don't hear a lot of talk about him winning MVP. Why? He's not the 35 year old "King." Just saying, "no," and then talking about how in MOST years or 80 pct of seasons LeBron would be the MVP or if you took Giannis out then LeBron would win it doesn't really change the discussion. This isn't most years. Giannis IS in this year. This is a year in which a player is posting the highest single season PER in NBA History, leads the league in virtually every metric used for evaluating a players contribution. I've yet to see an ACTUAL persuasive argument beyond, "LeBron is really good," and "the Lakers beat the Bucks and the Clippers in 5 days," something of course the Bucks have done as well this year. The gap between the two in virtually every quantifiable metric should be such that the last week wouldn't make the slightest difference....IF it wasn't LeBron and the Lakers. I've literal even heard voters talk about how they WANT LeBron to win the award. I can't believe you don't think the "story line" of LeBron getting the Lakers back in the playoffs after Kobe tragically dies in an accident is an ENORMOUS factor in why many of the people who vote for the award are pushing the "LeBron for MVP," narrative. What is the argument for LeBron other than he's really good and probably still the best player in the world overall?

If I was implying it, I'll just state it. LeBron is undeserving of the MVP award this year. The Bucks record over the Lakers was NOT Giannis' biggest advantage. The fact that he was posting the single highest PER in NBA history was, the fact that he's got the highest defensive rating in the NBA, that he's averaging roughly 35/16/8 per 36 minutes...pretty much the fact that he's having one of the greatest seasons in NBA history was his biggest advantage over LeBron. Saying what LeBron is doing would be good enough to win the MVP in MOST years is about as relevant as saying, "look at what he's doing....for a 35 year old." Giannis has been a significantly better player this season than LeBron. No, the 70 win pace was the biggest reason he was a runaway leader. Without that it becomes close/arguable because the "significantly" portion you speak of isn't quite true as LBJ has also been ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, Giannis should still win if it ends now. But you acting like it's blasphemy that one guy playing two great games vs top rival teams and winning while the other loses 3 times and misses two games doesn't narrow the decision is just wrong. If the Bucks win only 1 game more than LA and Giannis misses 10 more games than LBJ I really don't think people are wrong to vote for LBJ. It becomes very close at that point and I see either way. And no it's not the same as "for a 35 year old". If you delete Giannis from this season LBJ would be a walkaway for MVP right now. In probably 80% of seasons the year LBJ and his team is having would be a shoe-in for MVP. Feel free to disagree though. I certainly see where you're coming from and don't think you're nuts or anything. Essentially I'm just saying it should be closer than people realize with how good LBJ has been and last weekend and Giannis injury helped close some gap. Big game Thurs vs Bos to get back on track. Hopefully Giannis is back and we win so everyone can chill a bit. haha Greatest single season PER in NBA History. Better than Wilt's 50/25 season. So if he was JUST a Harden type player he'd have a strong argument for MVP over LeBron. BUT- #1 in Defensive Ratings. #1 Rim protector #1 Real Plus/Minus #1 Defensive Win Shares These things haven't changed in 3-4 days. They lost a close game to the Lakers.... People WANT LeBron to win the award because of Kobe, because he's 35 because he plays for one of the leagues two more storied franchises while Giannis plays in Milwaukee. Whatever may have happened any other year, it shouldn't be close right now and you had people just a week ago talking about how it SHOULD be a unanimous MVP for Giannis. What's he done exactly in that week? Lost to the Lakers on the road while putting up 32/11/6. If you just listed the numbers and accolades with the two blank faces like they do sometimes on ESPN or wherever, you'd have a hard time coming up with a single reason why LeBron would even get a single vote. I also didn't say that IF the Bucks finish just one game better than the Lakers and IF Giannis misses the majority of the games remaining it's be crazy for people to vote for LeBron OR that it wouldn't become very close at THAT point. What I'm saying is that it is NOT very close at THIS point based on actual play. The ONLY reason that people are now arguing that LeBron IS the MVP...is because of the nice little storyline and the tragedy with Kobe.

If I was implying it, I'll just state it. LeBron is undeserving of the MVP award this year. The Bucks record over the Lakers was NOT Giannis' biggest advantage. The fact that he was posting the single highest PER in NBA history was, the fact that he's got the highest defensive rating in the NBA, that he's averaging roughly 35/16/8 per 36 minutes...pretty much the fact that he's having one of the greatest seasons in NBA history was his biggest advantage over LeBron. Saying what LeBron is doing would be good enough to win the MVP in MOST years is about as relevant as saying, "look at what he's doing....for a 35 year old." Giannis has been a significantly better player this season than LeBron.

They'd played in the same number of games heading into the Bucks-Lakers game. It's not like Giannis was sitting out of every back to back like Kawhi last year. And a lot of players are having great seasons. Luka, Harden, LeBron, AD is having a great season. Giannis is better offensively and defensively this year than LeBron. And if it wasn't close heading into the Bucks-Lakers game, it shouldn't be close now. The ONLY reason it'll be a close vote or would be as of today is because it's LeBron and he plays for the Lakers. Otherwise Giannis has been better than him in pretty much every facet of the game this season.