Thurston Fluff

Thank Jb. I guess the question is does arbitration work on a one year basis or does the team offers arbitration and they offer a multi-year contract and the player gives his offer and an arbitrator picks one of the two and the deal is for whatever length the winning side put forth? I'm assuming it's a one year deal for arbitration purposes but you know what they say about assumptions so I figured I'd ask.

I'm not sure if I have this right so I thought I'd ask. If Sheets can't pitch again this season and worst case scenario he needs surgery wouldn't that effectively eliminate us getting compensation for him. The way I understand it the Brewers would have to offer him arbitration to be eligible for compensation. Would they do that if he had surgery? I believe the maximum reduction in arbitration is 20% of the previous year's contract. If he needs surgery nobody is going to want him next year a that high of a price and give up a first or second round pick to boot. If he can't get a nice deal he'd be smart to opt for doing a one year arby deal and if the Brewers do offer him. So wouldn't we be stuck with an injured pitcher coming off surgery at $7ish million if we offered him arby? Anyone know for sure how arbitration works in this sort of situation? Is Ben's injuries going to hurt us one last time on his way out of town? (edit: title --1992)

involved is different than meddling. If he asks questions fine. If he starts to give "input" about certain players not related to affordability then he may cross the line to meddling. The fact that he retained everyone from the previous ownership does show he's willing to evaluate people before he makes a change. So that to me is a positive.

We could start the minor league drunk thread with $1 beer Tuesday reports. Awesome I'm getting excited already. Something to take the sting away for a while.

I don't think he's a dud owner but he better be able to come through with the promise of fielding a consistently competitive team. That's how we will eventually break through to the post season. I don't want to go into rebuild with a smaller payroll for a couple years for the next one year run. I want to be like the Cards, Twins, Astros etc who put out one competitive team after another rarely falling below .500. Next year will be a big test in that regard. If he's willing to maintain payroll we can compete. After all the worst Cards team to win the division had the best year of the whole LaRussa era.

Jeffy if that was true Torres would not have been in the game when he was. It wasn't a save situation. That was the second game in a row he was put in a non save situation wasn't it?

The stated reason I think was they wanted a warmer climate and they liked the location relative to som eof thier other minor league teams. most people seem to believe the real reason was the stadium was a dump. The t-rat stadium is very nice and the fan base is pretty good. As an Appleton resident I was sad to see them mover from Beloit because they were in the same league as the t-rats. It was the first time I got to see prince live. This is far better than occasionally seeing them. We'll have to have BF tailgate parties no doubt about it.

You can't expect every AAA player to develop into a Major League All-Star. I never said I did. But if he was so good shouldn't some of them exceeded expectations or dramatically improved once he hit Kremblas' tutorship? I'm asking if that happened or was he being credited for essentially doing what every coach all along the way was doing with the same players? Why is he considered so much better when so many others have contributed as much to the players development as he did? Thanks for the reply JJ. I'm not sure I agree since I didn't see Hart improve at his new position as quickly as Braun or Hall did at the major league level but I certainly respect your opinion on the matter.

I said it a week ago I was going to enjoy the team for what it is. A good team trying to make the playoffs. That's what we've been waiting for isn't it? No way in hell I'm going to fret over what could have been, what is not, or what may being the future. Today we have a team with a chance to go to the playoffs. I'll enjoy it until it is officially over. I'm a brewer fan. I may have chosen the ugly girl to bring to the prom but dang it she's my date and I'm going to dance with her, treat her well, and enjoy the night no matter what others may think.

many good points JJ. Part of my problem with the Kremblas for manager talk isn't him as much as how many people seemed to look at his record vs the player development aspect. That is why I used the argument in reverse. I do not recall if you were one of them and am not saying you were one of them. It just always sort of bugged me that he was always seen as this guru because of something essentially trivial to his job. You would probably know better than I so maybe you can enlighten me a little. Is the player development he's credited for special vs the other levels the players were at? If for instance Braun progressed relatively evenly throughout the system does that mean it was just a good player and competent coaching all around or did you see significant improvements with some of the players that they didn't have in earlier levels? How was the player progression throughout the year at that level? How did the repeat players do in their second or third time around. I tend to see guys like Zach Jackson not getting any better even though he had several years there. That may be more my lack of seeing the entire team so I don't want ot be too harsh without getting a little more info from someone who has seen more of the whole picture than I have.

Yost is just going to wait for Cox to retire and go there. They seem to like him in Atlanta.

Totally agree naivin. If a two week period of bad play is enough to get a manager fired then one game is enough to determine if Sheets really all he was advertised to be.

Weeks seems to be taking the brunt of some unfair critisism with fans. Durham is an easy out since most people have no idea that he is actually a worse defender than Weeks. I think it's more about not knowing Durham well enough to realize he isn't very good than it is Weeks being worse. That deosn't explain why the manager wold make the move. But it's his job interview so I guess it's his choice to make. But all they did was state the reason and apparently.... that was good enough for them. No real discussion. nothing. I mean, you don't even bring up production at all? If by the them you mean the game broadcasters keep in mind they are essentially the Brewers employees. I know they can comment on what they see and do not have to walk lock step with the team but they're job is different than that of the journalists that cover the team. Their job is to dissect the game in front of them as it happens more than it is to dissect who should and shouldn't be playing and why. I'd like to see beat writers do a little more questioning about the validity of such decisions more than I want to see Uecker or powell second guessing who is on the field.

Kremblas never had a loaded team in Nashville, not even close, his teams were always lacking talent wise... I don't have the time today to go team by team for you, but I don't feel that characterization is fair or valid. When you have one of the better farm systems in the league it stands to reason that you also have better players than the competition. No minor league team is going to have wall to wall prospects with Braunesque ceilings. Unless the Brewers have far less quality players to stock their farm system with than the other teams they are facing I don't see how he was left with so much less talent than the teams he was facing. The team this year was absolutely horrid outside of Nelson and Branyan, and Branyan was with the big club full time since June Stetter, Gwynn, Difelice, Nelson, Nix, Rottino, Dillon, Nelson, Branyan are all players off the top of my head that were good enough to play some at the major league level and all had plenty of time at AAA to be at least capable of decent play at that level. Sorry but I don't buy the excuse. I think the fact that he was not retained at the same time they were contemplating firing Ned should tell you something about what they thought of him as a major league manager in the making.

I wouldn't judge him on this year though in terms of the record. The Sounds weren't very good and I think that has more to do with talent this year than managing. If he was judged to be a good manager because he won when he had talent it is only fair to judge him to be a poor manager when he can't win without it. If it was his ability as a manager, not just good players, that should have showed this season. I also am not sold on the poor talent angle either. They didn't have great young up coming talent like years past but they did have older players and plenty of repeat players who have more than enough experience at that level to have made them competitive. This season's record probably tells us as much if not more than the past couple have with regard to his true ability.

I was never as big a fan of Kremblas as some. Sure he won when he had the best talent. What did he do when he didn't? The same as Ned he lost a lot of games. Some of the problems with the Brewers today has to go to the minor league guys who were supposed to develop them. Kremblas was supposed to develop players not win games. Gwynn has not developed. Many of the pitchers have not developed. Sure he did ok with the likes of Braun but those are guys who were exceptionally talented. What did he do with the normal type of player. The Nixes, Gwynns and Stetters of the organization? Not much from what I can tell.

If he had lost the players, then I would throw my long standing Yost-support behind the firing. It's all about the leading of the team. If the team was no longer willing to follow him, then it's good that he's gone. Having said that... the next guy in line (after Sveum) is almost a sure-fire lock to do many of the same "idiotic" things that Yost did. Why? Because they (almost) all do. The chances of the love child of Bill James and George S Patton coming to the Brewers is slim and none. Exactly what I thought Bucky. The way they played in Phillie was a disgrace. They looked like a team playing out the string as opposed to one that was trying to hold a lead for a playoff spot. How that happens I have no idea. it may be telling about the manager but it shoudl also say someithgn obout the players. No manager is so horrible that a team in the position they were in has an excuse to play that uninspired of baseball. Personally I felt it was the weight of so many years of bad baseball taking it's toll. I think it was part of why Ned ended up failing in the end as well. Ultimately I think Ned's best attribute was also his downfall. His loyalty to his players. I read an article in the JS where Mark A said there was no such thing as too loyal and Ned was very loyal. He also said he didn't think that loyalty was always returned in kind. If that is the case get rid of any player who failed in that regard. If you can't cover someones back that has always had yours you are always going to be part of the problem not part of the solution. As I said in another thread. I have given up worrying about the playoff drought. I have given up worrying about anything other than enjoying the games and the chase for October. So I will give up worrying about who is managing and look to see if the players can break out of this slump and win some games.

As this month has shown 26 years without a playoff appearance has a price that must be paid. If this team had made the playoffs once in a while since 82 this team would be seen for what it is not for what it is not. It is a good young team capable of making the playoffs but has enough holes in it to make it far from a sure thing. Instead of enjoying another solid season of winning baseball we all cringe suffer and cry over every loss. I am no different. I see the players struggle to score more than two runs a game and am envious of the Royals bullpen about now. I see the team struggle to get the 26 year old gorilla off it's back before it gets one year bigger. I see a young team struggling with an unfair burden. What's fair about heaping all of 26 years of failure on the best team we have seen in that time. After all the Brewers teams of the 80's and early 90's had two hall of famers on them and a supporting cast of veterans and they only managed one playoff birth in all the time they were here. Their failures now become the 08 team's burden. It isn't fair but it is what it is and it is not going to go away until one of these teams plays in October. The reason I think we should all take a deep breath is this team is exactly what the Brewers promised us six years ago. A winning team capable of contending for a playoff spot every year. Maybe it's time we gave this team a break and just enjoy a winning team. Let the pressure ease up so they can carry the burden of past failures. Instead of booing the bad plays focus on the good ones. Instead of lamenting the crappy series look forward to how this team always seems to come out of them stronger. When all is said and done this team is good enough to contend and is. That is a far cry form the usual Septembers here. Sometimes I think we should see the fact that we are contending vs fretting if we are going to go 27 years without a playoff appearance. At least then we can enjoy one of the best teams the Brewers have fielded in two decades as opposed to hating every moment of winning baseball. After all playoff chances are supposed to be what we were waiting for. If the brewer fail to make the playoffs I will be disappointed. The only way I will be more disappointed if I don't even enjoy the ride. So for myself I'll let go of my anger at Prince for letting himself go physically. I'll let go of the hatred I feel for Hart's decline in the second half. I'll let go of the lack of respectable relievers. I'll let go the hole at third base and the lack of lefties in the lineup. I'll let go of wondering what the hitting coach is actually doing and Ned's apprehension. For the rest of the season I'm just going to enjoy baseball for baseball's sake. Enjoy every game we win and let go of everyone we lose. The Brewers promised winning baseball and a playoff team. They have done everything they promised so far except get to the post season. Considering they did what they said in every other respect I'm willing to believe that can be accomplished as well. After all they have been pretty good on their promises so far. My advice to the Brewers and Ned is realize you are not part of the past 26 years of questionable baseball. You are the answer. The contender. Play for today and leave the past to take responsibility for it's own poor play then the final step to the playoffs will be much easier. Go Brewers I am there for you cheering every step of the way. Mods If this thread seems pointless feel free to tell me so. Just felt the need to get it off my chest.

This implies that a manager has no effect on the game whatsoever. That may be closer to the truth than thinking he actually does make much difference. It is easier to see how the best players give the team the best chance than changing the batting order will. Managers make a difference in how the team prepares to play and how they play the game. That does have an effect on the outcome in the sense that well prepared players who play hard all the time should produce better results than the same players who are poorly prepared and lazy. That is different than how well the players play on any given day or in any given situation. That type of production is entirely up to the player and his ability.

FTJ you don't need to trick me into giving to your anti Ned site. Just ask with a gun in hand and all I have on me is yours.

I've read many times now that Ned is to rigid with his lineup. Maybe that is true but when he tried to do different things with it his players came to him and complained. Braun and prince wanted to change their places in the order even though the rationale for hitting Braun after Fielder was sound. Ned did what his players asked. Hart doesn't really want to lead off so Weeks does. Though Hart said he will. I think it had more to do with needing Hart in the middle of the order so maybe not the best example. Hardy doesn't like hitting in front of the pitcher so Ned scraps the idea. I think the reason Ned does it, and he has stated it many times, is that he doesn't want to disrupt the entire lineup to replace one guy. Given the seemingly fragile nature of the players when he doesn't put them in the spot they are comfortable with I tend to think maybe there is some merit to his line of thinking with this particular group. The he's too rigid criticism is less because of his lack of flexibility and more the lack of the players flexibility form all the evidence I see. If it sounds like I'm being hard on the players I am. They are the ones I expected more out of at this point.

There was a study done and posted here that showed Ned won more close games late than almost every manager in the game. Anyone else remember it or know where it is now? Somehow that never seems to be enough. Somewhere along the line we should expect the players to actually do something offensively through the first seven innings. Then Ned's choice of which ice cold hitter should hit in the last AB wouldn't matter. The problem isn't Ned. It's players who we should be able to count on have failed miserably throughout the game for a while now. I'm way less concerned about Ned's choice for the last batter in the game than I am with how poorly Braun, Prince and Hart have been throughout the game for an extended period of time now. Maybe Ned could do better I don't know if any manager could win much in the situation Ned finds himself. If he goes with the numbers and it fails some say he is to rigid. If he doesn't and loses he goes by his gut too much. Since the odds of winning is so low in those situations he's going to be an idiot most of the time. The only way to prevent it is to have players play better earlier and give the team more than a 25% chance to win. If the team goes to it's last AB it will lose 75% of the time no matter what button is pushed or who is managing.

Nix has always been a favorite of mine. I have no idea why and won't even try to justify why. I was kind of hoping he would get enough time to show he could be a reserve OF next year. I guess that isn't in the cards. Oh well, so much for irrational love of a player.

Don't break yourselves or anything, just give what you feel is appropriate for what you get out of the site. If I gave what I got out of it I would go broke. I promise to give what I can and if I win the lottery I will not forget the little people who gave me so much joy here. Fair enough Bruce the Automator?

cool thanks. I'd hate to be giving it to some sort of fire Ned Yost site or something.