tmwiese55

First part I'm quoting from you is a pretty strong indictment of MM. 5-6 years with a roster good enough to win the SB and never did. Or even MADE it to the SB. Lost at home in the playoffs at least twice I can remember in that stretch. Lost to the Seahawks in a game that should have been won. I know, you can't win the SB every year. But MM hasn't really even knocked on the door since the SB they won. Your other comment, straw man. I never heard anyone expect a 12-4 season with the injuries they've had. They did win the SB in one of those years though. And just two seasons ago were a series of flukes away from being back while playing with Rodgers on one leg, which is a good sign of coaching/team building to have still made it that far. The problem with the rings or bust attitude is that each years there is 5-6 teams are built well enough to win the SB but only one can, you get into the playoffs against them and most games are 50/50 tossups on who wins on any given day. I just find it tough to really blame a coach for the crapshoot that is the NFL playoffs. And I was just using the 11-12 wins as what we're used to as a good season here, should they go 5-11? heck no, but winning 7-9 games is about all one should expect with this situation and as of now they'll probably do it. Also, what we said earlier about it being easier with Rodgers to build a team. I forgot to mention that MM/TT should get credit for that rather than it being held against them. Nobody else would've had the balls to move on from Favre in order to not lose Rodgers. MM also greatly tweaked his mechanics and coached him up to the point where MM knew he was a star and didn't want to give him away. That foresight extended the GB glory years by 10 years already and got one SB they wouldn't have with any other coach/gm combo, they should be given some credit for that decision. All that said, if there is multiple flat performances like the last one to finish I totally understand getting the pitchforks, that means the team isn't on board with him anymore. I just think we're a little early after one game especially given the track record they have here.

Exactly, of course we can all nitpick things they should have done (biggest for me is never getting a 3rd down pass receiving RB) but I just can't see how it's reasonable to use a season rampaged by injury as a sweeping indictment of the coach and how the GM has built the team. Basically every season since 2010 they have constructed a roster good enough to win the SB, even with all the nitpicks we can all come up with. Sure it's much easier with Rodgers but they have done it every year and without their 3 CBs and best pass rusher out I'm sure they'd be comfortably in first place battling for a by in the playoffs like normal. What team could got 11-5 or 12-4 when missing their top 3 CBs, best pass-rusher, and top 2 RBs. Plus countless other injuries to starters throughout the year. Maybe the Patriots I guess as long as Brady is healthy but that's about it.

I know this game was out of the ordinary with so so many 3s. I'm not advocating that as the norm. But this is a common complaint I have among our fans, we have been completely reliant on the 3 for a long long time now and we continue to win, as someone said it is the way of basketball. But our fans often forget all the games won by good shooting 3s as soon as they have an off game. The two FF runs were because all 7 regular players could drill 3 pointers. I don't advocate for 40 per game like last night but with the way they were defended they somewhat didn't have a choice, if they threw to the post they were immediately double teamed, sometimes triple. no choice but to kick it out. And if you are being defended like that they need to put another shooter out there instead of Thomas, Iverson, Hill and others. Have to clean up the D, turnovers. And I'd really like to see Nigel fed in the post a good amount instead of being all on the wing. Also would like to see more PnR action similar to the NBA to start the ball movement rather than just post kickouts. PnR action will often lead to more drives rather than only 3s. The last FF team started tons of possessions with a Frank/BK PnR.

What would we think is reasonable for Quintana? I'd think we start Brinson and hopefully find a way to do it without giving up Hader. With that contract just pointed out it really wouldn't be a bad idea to get him now. Just have to look at how much we'd have to give up. Obviously we don't know which ones will pan out but we have a glut of OFs that we could trade from.

He said right in the opener that this is just a fun thing to talk about. He realizes it doesn't make sense and isn't pushing it. He's just trying to spark conversation during the downtime. I think it's a fun thing to talk about just to kill time. I'd think any thing tossed out in this scenario would start with Turner at 3B, then finding a hypothetical trade for a top end starter like a Quintana/Sale. Then hope guys like Guerra, Davies do well after them. Theoretically you could probably get an 85ish win team realistically assembled. It's just not worth going for it this year and next (while the Cubs are still loaded) when it limits them in 3-5 years. Which, as OP said, is what makes this not a good route.

Coming out like that yesterday is the type of things that I think could lead to big changes. Losing close games happens, coming out completely flat is a bad sign of what's going on in the locker room. Of course it can just happen from time to time, but if it happens several times to finish the year then it's a big symptom of a larger problem. My guess is that won't happen again and they'll finish out ok, maybe not make the playoffs though and the 'big move' they make will be to fire Capers.

I highly recommend having two TVs as well. Baseball is the perfect sport to have on the second TV without volume while you watch something else. Or with multiple football games going at once chances are you won't have to watch any commercials.

I think pace of play is a bigger issue in the NFL actually and a big part of the reason their ratings have dropped big time. I usually fall asleep during NFL games to the point that I don't even watch anymore, other than GB. Every change of possession is 5 minutes. A score is a 5 min commercial, touchback, 5 minute commercial. Brutal. Then throw in the tons of injury stops and penalties. College at least only does one commercial on scores and often times doesn't even go to commercial on non-score change of possession.

Very frustrating loss. But as far using this year as some grand judgment on the organization is a bit much. They're missing they're top 3 CBs and that is exactly where they've been killed the last two games. How many teams could survive playing multiple off the street free agents at DB? If they get through this and get to the playoffs that's all you can ask. Chances are that even with 2/3 of them playing the last two games they'd be 6-2 right now with a comfortable division lead and playing for home field. and that doesn't even account for both RBs out, Mathews out. Though there is certainly blame for going into the year with only 2 RBs and not drafting a shifty receiving type 3rd down back for several years now.

my favorite mid-late lottery guy is Lonzo Ball, 6'6" PG from UCLA . Can't say I know much about him other than your write-up. But after the MCW experiment and still waiting on Giannis/Jabari to learn how to shoot, wouldn't you rather go with someone who can shoot? My guess is they end up higher than mid-lottery and supposedly this draft is loaded in Gs so hopefully someone up there is a bit better.

The best team rarely wins the championship in all sports, especially NFL and CBB because it all comes down to one game. Therefore, luck/chance have a huge factor in it when teams are so evenly matched. Of course the players earn their win, but from a managerial and team building perspective all you can do is have a team good enough to be in it at the end and then hope it falls your way. The NBA is the only sport where the best team almost always wins. For example, if the Cubs don't win this or any of the next 4 years does that mean Epstein/Madden are failures? They clearly constructed the best team this year but might get screwed by freakish performances from Kluber/Miller in 3 of the games.

Exactly, only one team can win each year but this ESPN pushed rings obsession has skewed everyone to think that if you don't win it all that you're a complete failure.

It's called vision. Looking forward, not behind. Proven right so far, 4 years and counting. No it's basically hindsight 20/20 type thinking. They would've been in the SB two seasons ago if not for multiple horribly unlucky things happening in a row vs Seattle. Regardless, they were in the final four which means they're doing things right, it's just luck after that. Again, would you have fired Belichick in like 08-09? He hadn't won a SB in 5-6 years and had just choked in the SB with the best team ever, gotta look forward and stop living in the past.

You wanted to fire them 2-3 years after winning the SB and a 1-2 years after winning 24 straight games? Seems like reasonable expectations.

Also, why should TT/McCarthy/Rodgers be blamed for Favre's team losing as 14 pt faves in the SB and overall just getting one SB with a stacked team on both sides of the ball. Along with Favre's basically blah play after his MVP stint until leaving. If anything they should be given credit for moving on from Favre and not trading away the next star QB in order to cling to Favre's past glory for a little longer. Without their leadership and balls to do that this 'run' they've been on would've ended 9-10 years ago and gotten 1 less SB.

Has there been any reports on the toxicology of the other guys? I see some speculating on who was driving, just curious if they were all buzzed up?

Without a Henson/Plumlee trade they are essentially capped out for the next 4-5 years, assuming a large deal coming for Jabari. They won't be able to add anyone of significance by FA

I of course will be disappointed if they don't get another SB in Rodgers career. But this ESPN caused obsession on rings has skewed everyone's judgment. The playoffs are essentially a luckbox crapshoot, all you can do is get there every year and put yourself in position and hope the chips fall your way. GB management does that every year. And keep in mind two of the seasons their playoff positioning was ruined by Rodgers injuries during the season. Should Belichick and Brady have been canned when they went something like 9 seasons without a SB and multiple chokes in the playoffs?

Well, you have to grant the WS ratings are greatly bumped this year due to an anomaly in the Cubs. Can't bank on this every year.

They were a series of horribly unlucky things happening in a row from being the SB and would've been the favorite just a season ago, cmon. if anything McCarthy's coaching the last two weeks with this MASH unit should be a positive to show that he can be creative and still find a way, not a negative on him.

Or at least called timeout once ATL got the first down before the score. would've had close to a minute instead of 30 seconds.

I don't know, looking around the league the teams that consistently buy big name free agents are usually losers. It obviously just worked for Denver though. I don't disagree that one or two here or there couldn't hurt but if anything teams like Pitt, GB and NE build from within more than anyone and they're three of the most consistent winners. Obviously their QB situations help, but due to very expensive QBs you have to manage the salary cap differently. I also agree with the assessment on the O last year and this year. From what I know of their O the routes are all reads so swapping out two crafty veterans with great chemistry like Jennings/Driver who were always on the same page for two young guys has to have really slowed things down. Also hurts when they have had to put Cobb in the backfield due to never getting a good 3rd receiving back, so it puts another young WR on the field. That could've been an area to add someone, or of course probably could've just drafted one in the 5th round like James White or similar. Good to see starting with the Detroit game that they finally brought back more of the slants/crosses. And obviously last game they had to get very creative, hopefully they stick with a lot of no huddle. And short easy throws have won NE 4 super bowls so why not do more and more of that.

I agree, Pack fans are extremely spoiled and don't appreciate how much goes into being a perennial contender. It's not as easy as, you have Rodgers so anyone can do it. Churning through coaches/gms is a recipe for things to fall apart. Unless there is some kind of institutional or locker room type problem going you shouldn't rush to just fire after losing a couple games. They've been through this before and righted and end up in a good spot for the playoffs. I mean, everyone is freaking out because they've lost two games but they lost to two really good teams. If they would've lost to Chicago, then I'd have been fine with going into panic mode. Atlanta is also good so really can't freak out if you lose on the road. This year though it really seems like which players can come back from the massive amounts of injuries they have and how soon they can come back. I'm sure they'll end up in the playoffs though and then anything can happen, especially if Rodgers gets back to his old self. Before all the injuries I actually thought they were finally onto something on D, hopefully the get enough guys back healthy.

Yea the mistake was taking MCW over the pick. That's in the past though. This trade is the best they could do right now. I agree with the person who mentioned the Ennis trade, I think that's a worse trade than this one. Not sure why they thought they needed another 4/3 mixed player when they already have Giannis, Jabari, Telly, Thon, Novak along with 3 Cs at like 55 mil per year. That's 9 guys now at the big positions in a time when the league is going small. And we all knew an MCW trade was likely so Ennis was a good depth guy. For the fear of no PG backups now. With Giannis taking 30ish minutes of that time I'm sure they figure Delly as the backup lead ballhandler for the other 18 mins. With no Ennis though you do get weak if there is another injury though. But as long as Giannis is healthy it really shouldn't be a problem.

Snell is nothing to get worked up about guys. MCW has no trade value, you can't say he sucks out of one side of your mouth and then expect a good return out of the other. The team has no SG/SF wings on the roster, at all. Their wings are all 3/4 mixes. They just needed a body for depth and they at least found one who can shoot. We also had no backup at that position before Middleton went down. He's also a type that you should be able to lock up as a backup and be here for several years, as long as he doesn't have some stupid contract hopes. Look around the league, there are countless guys that start to figure it out right at this point of their career and then become useful rotation pieces. It would be nice to find one of those guys on the cheap before they blow up rather than after when they get paid a ridiculous contract. Not saying it'll happen with Snell, but it could. He has the tools to be a 3 & D wing if he can get his head right. So, you traded a guy you'd have for one year and really don't even want to play (Giannis will take 30ish out of 48 mins at his position) for a guy at a position where we have literally nobody and could possibly be here for several years. And we're still complaining? There's tons of Bucks moves to complain about over the years but this isn't one of them.