tmwiese55

Lohse will be gone, potential Garza trade, Fiers might not make it out of the year with a rotation spot. 3 spots could be up for grabs next year. That's the scenario I was looking at. I suppose Thornburg kind of has to be thrown out there and see if swims probably, but we might find out this year that he sinks. Jungman could definitely take a spot next year but could be a candidate for what I was getting at, give him another year to develop and delay arbitration a year in case he pans out.

I saw an article on Grantland last year talking about the Cubs rebuild and what they've done with pitchers, we could do a similar thing to fill in these next few years rather than have overwhelmed young guys get crushed and ruin them. They essentially sought out guys with strong secondary stats but poor ERAs that were cheap and under the radar, signed a few and hoped the secondary numbers were legit. Then if they do well try to trade them for more prospects. I can't remember which guys were like this but I think Hammels is one. It might at least provide some respectability and not losing 100+ games and if you hit a few of them maybe get some more prospects. Plus young guys in our system won't be thrown in before they're ready which could ruin them, and if they do become good a year or two later their arbitration clocks would be further behind. Here's the link: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-cubs-rebuilding-theo-epstein-javier-baez-kris-bryant-jake-arrieta/ It also talks about how they invested their drafts in hitting, I think most here would agree that aspect doesn't apply to us but I like the pitching idea for the next couple years to fill out 2 or 3 spots in the rotation. We're not the same as them since we won't have unlimited payroll like them so I think we have to be investing in young pitching at all times, I'm saying this idea as more of a stopgap the next few years.

Just got another 10 games from the NFL after being suspended all last year. Don't get me wrong, I know this guy is a POS and almost assuredly did what he's accused of here, but a 26 game suspension when there's dozens of people floating around the NFL lower profile that never got any suspension for similar crimes? So 26 game suspensions are now the standard for being accused of woman hitting without being convicted of anything. I know he paid her off but wow that is a big suspension. If this was enforced fairly to all offenders most teams would struggle to field a team most weeks. I know this wall come off as apologetic to people like him, but I'm sure the NFLPA is going to be up in arms about this and just overall how the NFL is allowed to just willy nilly pick and choose who to do this to without any standards. They're going to make a big fuss at the next negotiations to get a system in place that has some kind of standards and procedures that make sense. I guess it's their fault for agreeing to a system that just gives Goodell freedom to do whatever he wants.

Davey Nelson?

Great post Reillly, spot on. And I agree with Patrick too, I made a similar point in a different thread. I don't think the Marcum, CC, Greinke trades hurt us at all really, it's the poor drafting that killed us. Lawire has flopped and proven to be a headcase, which everyone said at the time as why they were willing to dump him. Laporta flopped, but Brantley eventually became a good starter to salvage that deal for Cleveland. Greinke: yes Cain, Escobar and Ordazzi are major league players but none are stars or game changers. Greinke was really good for us and the key to getting us as close as we did, plus they got Segura back for him to cancel out one of the guys we lost and might still get something out of one of the pitchers. Not looking to rehash the trade discussions, just getting at the point that drafting and/or development was the main problem here. We've won most trades in recent years outside of Carlos Lee. I'd call Greinke a win/win for both sides. Hardy for Gomez, blowout win there.

There's a plethora of scouting reports available and after the Greinke trade I followed KC because I liked all of the prospects we sent that way and I wanted them to do well. He made 16 starts for KC in 2012, it's not like he only started in the minors. Gotcha, I see that now that I'm at a real computer instead of an ipad. I suppose that he'll always be a reliever at this point then since it's been a few years. I guess the other thing to consider though is that he was 22 at the time in his first big league action, might have been able to improve if given the time. Either way, it's probably too late now. Man, last night was rough.

What are you basing this off then, starts in the minors? I'm surprised there's that much info available about that but I guess if that's what happened, so be it. For the sox I was just saying that's their strategy and who's to say they're wrong. Worked for sale, Johan Santana, and liriano just off the top of my head. Not saying he's as good as sale or anything. I actually think sale did 1.5 years in the pen too. From what I read today putting in the pen is more about keeping the innings count down so he can finish the season in the rotation. That and just to get his feet wet first. We'll see how he does I guess.

For the sox they did the same thing with Sale and that worked well so that's their logic. I think he'll be starting by June if he does well in the pen. They have a couple really shaky starters and are in complete win now mode. Regarding smith, I see the points you guys made. But that's based off one season as reliever basically. The issues brought up would be things you would focus and work on and see how does. Kind of what you could use this 2nd half for, if it doesn't work then you're back where you started. I however would not call 95+ heater with a huge slider as average. And regardless it's better than everyone's stuff in our rotation besides Nelson maybe. Work on a changeup could really help but there's no need to work on it as a reliever. I'm not saying this is a no brainer or anything, just throwing it out there. What do they have to lose.

Two solid years that led to what? A combined 156-168 record with no playoff appearances. The Lohse signing did absolutely nothing for this team other than costing us a ton of money and a draft pick. As I said, I wouldn't have done it. But this move itself got you exactly what was expected, mid to low 3 run eras and 200 innings each year. It's being discussed here like it was Looper, Suppan, Gagne level. And that it was only 3 years had little chance to blow up in our face. My point, and I don't think it's crazy, is that people are only remembering the last 3 games rather than that he was fine the last two years. This move wasn't near the top of the list of the mistakes and an argument could be made it was fine right now, that argument goes away if he bombs the rest of this season. The problem is pretty well outlined by reilly right there, no hits in the draft since 2005, ouch. If they would've drafted better this hit coming up the next few years wouldn't be that bad. My overall take is that you can't always just worry about the future, at some point you have to put your cards on the table and go for it and they did it and got close. If Sheets doesn't get hurt the CC year who knows. If STL doesn't sneak into the playoffs in 2011 on a monster ATL collapse, who knows. If they would have just drafted better it could have been fine, would have taken your shot while also not having to go into all out rebuild mode. I guess another thing to talk about would just be overall team construction strategy over the years. For a small market team we should always be built around pitching and developing our own. For whatever reason, our team got stocked with hitting prospects with only one pitching in the early/mid 00s. It does seem they realize that now with how many pitchers have been drafted recently but it's too late and it doesn't really seem like many will pan out with big upsides. Really need Wily, Nelson and one other to step up to give us something to build around. What about moving Smith slowly back to a starter for next year? His stuff is ridiculous and when we got him I thought he was supposed to be starter. This idea popped into my head when reading about the White Sox super prospect they just called up. Big strong lefty with upper 90s hear and a monster slider. Why not try to get 200 innings out of him instead of 60. Maybe start building him up in the second half of this year to get ready to take a spot next season.

I understand Lohse has been bad this year and they had to give up a pick for him but at least keep in mind we got two solid years out of him and he could still salvage this year to respectability. I agree they probably shouldn't have signed him but it was far from a disaster.

I wouldn't want to be a ref for Thursday's game. Bucks have nothing to lose and frankly the Bulls did all the dirty stuff last night so I'm sure the Bucks will have a chip on their shoulder. I'm fine with being physical. But stopping in front of someone while their running back on D and hitting them to cause a collision, and then falling down and acting offended that you got hit is just bush league and looking to instigate a fight.

I've been watching both bucks and brewers games. It hasn't been easy for either but at least bucks is intense and competitive. And votto with 2 run shot, think I'm done with them for the night

Regarding Braun's baggage: I don't think the Orioles are too upset with signing Cruz last year, and it seems Seattle is happy with him as well and paid what 50+ mil? STL seemed pretty happy with Peralta last year as they made the NLCS and paid 40+ mil. If Braun was hitting anywhere close to his old self, teams would take him. Maybe they'd negotiate some money off it though to help with the cost at the end.

A buddy of mine had a Bucks game on this season using this app. He doesn't pay for any cable so he was using someone else's account, I presume he was using a Charter account. It generally worked fine but was a little glitchy at times.

FYI-I don't think Vuvecic is a FA in any way, not sure how that gone thrown out here. Maybe because his name gets brought up in trade rumors a lot. Like I said before, I don't think these proven guys are attainable so they'll just focus on the draft. Needs are rim protector, pick and roll hard to the hoop C, and second shooting in any way. On October 23, 2014, Vučević signed a four-year, $53 million contract extension with the Magic.[15][16] On April 3, 2015, he scored a career-high 37 points in a 97-84 win over the Minnesota Timberwolves.[17]

Yea I guess it wouldn't surprise me if they're a little gun shy with guys covered in tats, including on their neck, after what happened with Larry and to a lesser extent Jennings (in spite of the bad ending with Jennings I heard he was absolute model player in the community and youth outreach programs though). And just overall as they worry about their image as they try to get this new arena in place.

I could see them trying to move up for WCS. They have tons of picks to move if they really like someone

Right, post ups on our offense aren't big in the NBA anymore. It's the pace and space ere and it seems that is the style Kidd is trying to play. They need the big for D and rebounding (Chandler, Sanders types). Need shooting big time on O. Best shooters at this point after Middleton are what Mayo, Dudley, Ers? All three will likely be gone in the next couple years.

Yea I don't doubt the new owners would be willing to pay. The players have to be willing to come though. The whole league has tons of cap space and knows the cap is about to balloon. These proven players aren't coming to MKE right now. MKE is still a few years away and these guys want to play for teams with a better shot. Also, Al Jefferson was a train wreck this year and has always been brutal on D. If somehow Canter or Vucevic will come I'll take it but I just don't see it happening. OKC will just match whatever Canter gets. I don't know the details on Vucevic contract to speak to him.

I really don't think they'll do a whole lot. Target a rim protecting C like you're talking about in the draft and if there isn't one where they pick probably just look to get shooting. None of those FA bigs mentioned are coming to Milwaukee.

Sucked is a strong word. Obviously he's not what he was but he adds another quality player to their rotation. Let's just say with 4 minutes to go in a tie game I'd rather see Tony Snell or Aaron Brooks out there against me than Rose. Who knows if he'll be smart enough to realize his shot will be rusty and he should focus on driving and creating. If he's dumb enough to chuck a bunch of deep contested twos or 3s and hurt his team than I suppose it would help the Bucks, I don't think he'll do that though.

You could do the extension now and probably save some dollars. But then you have the risk of the player having health issues in the next three years, and end up regretting the deal (like with Braun). Exactly, that's the decision and a sound argument can be made either way, just like with Braun but at a much smaller scale. Personally I think they could get a big discount from Lucroy right now, he's made around what 13 mil pretax/pre agent fee. So he will have taken home around 6-7 mil by the end of the contract, nothing in baseball terms. Have to think a 3-4 yr 30-40 mil total deal would be enough for him to sign right now and never have to worry about money again the rest of his life. And that would only sign him through age 34-35 so it shouldn't get the team in too much trouble no matter what.

I was really hoping for Toronto instead, especially with Rose back now. I think the goal should be to win two games, but have to get one. If the Celts knock off Cleveland and the Bucks, just kidding...

Because he shouldn't tell Carlos that he should never try to steal third with two outs. - you just said he doesn't have the baseball IQ to make this decision, so take it out of his hands. For someone as fast Gomez and batting at the top of the order, so good hitters are hitting when he's on 2nd, the math will be drastically in favor of never attempting to steal 3rd and it's not even close. Especially when you factor in as you admit that he doesn't have a great baseball IQ to choose his spots wisely. I couldn't really watch last nights game, but the last few games there hasn't been much of these mistakes to complain about that I can remember. Trying to think positively that they are showing improvement from last year on this issue.

Yes of course some guys pan out, that's obvious. More fail than not so you have to pile up as many as possible. There's a contingent of people that overvalue prospects like crazy on this board and all over the internet and I think sometimes you have to keep it in perspective. The prospect game is the one we're going to have to be in and we have to hit some in the next few years because it's pretty bare right now. I guess my point of all that was that if we do that teardown and blow for the next couple years and then those prospects don't hit, turning into say 6-8 yrs of futility with no attendance and it kills TV ratings for the coming Foxsports re-negotiation. This could cost the owners a lot of money and I think people should remember that when analyzing the moves they make, I think the owners are in fear of going back to the doldrums of the late 90s/early 00s since they've done such a good job getting the people behind the team since they took over. And really if you're going to do it with Gomez, which I expect they will, you might as well do it with Lucroy. He's signed for at least one more year beyond Gomez, maybe two, tough to tell from Wikipedia. He'll be a 30 or 31 yr old catcher with a ton of wear on his body who has not made barely any money yet. He needs as big of a contract as possible and I don't think it makes sense for us to give it, maybe he can play 2B in the future like Biggio did? He is the face right now so maybe they're working on a Braun type extension(obviously not for 20 mil) that will give him some financial security but doesn't break us no matter what happens, something like adding 3/30 to his current deal.