OnTheBlack

That was only due to Bulaga being injured and missing the entire 2013 season. The plan was to move Bulaga to LT. After Bulaga came back from injury, he didn't have the mobility he used to and instead of switching two players' positions they kept Bak at LT and Bulaga at RT. Doesn't change the fact that they drafted Spriggs before Bak was named to a Pro Bowl. They didn't draft Spriggs to play RT. I do give Sherrod a big pass for the injury, but my point was that if they had kept Giacomini they didn't need to spend a 1st round pick on an OT and could have spent it on a different position. I recall Akeem Ayers being talked about a lot with that pick, as well as Brooks Reed. If they knew what they had in Giacomini, perhaps they go a different way with that pick. Why he became the starter really isn't the point. The point is that he did and he was successful. Spriggs has had every opportunity that Bahktari had. And I really don't understand the pro-bowl references. Bahktari didn't make the Pro Bowl this year despite being first team All Pro. As for Giacomini, I guess I'm just missing your point. He's another guy who was a journeyman who was signed and cut by teams several times. The Packers kept him around for 3 years before moving on and even then when he went to Seattle, the Seahawks only picked him up because they had a terrible OL.....I don't see how keeping a guy like him, a fringe starter would have deterred the Packers from using a 1st rounder on a tackle. I really don't get how all of this speaks to Jason Spriggs NOT being a bust thus far. As you said, Bulaga was supposed to be the LT. They didn't use the 22nd pick(IIRC) on a RT. But he's played RT and thrived. Spriggs has not. And again, in today's NFL, there isn't the difference between RT and LT like there has been traditionally where you're looking for the stronger, more of a mauler type at RT and the athleticism at LT. The best pass rushers are lining up over the RT now. I've been on the Spriggs bandwagon now for a couple years. He has not shown anything that suggests you want to count on him as even backup swing tackle, never mind as the type of player you can count on to take over at one of the tackle spots. With Aaron Rodgers at 35, you probably want to invest in another tackle for the future moving forward to protect what will likely become a more fragile QB as he enters his late 30's.

Where was it ever even inferred that it was awful that someone would want to make a profit on their investment? The owner has already seen his investment increase by 800 million.

I can certainly see that in the Brewers in the 90's on, but in the 80's the Brewers payroll's were competitive with almost every team in baseball. I know they had the highest payroll at one point and I believe Yount signed a record setting contract when he was a FA after the '89 season outbidding some of the big spenders. They also spent a lot of money on guys like Higura, Stubbs and others. I tend to view Molitor leaving as the period when the Brewers started losing players because of money. I don't remember the details, but I think they actually offered him a pretty big pay cut as a free agent coming off a monster season. This was also when Bando came in and Selig was an absentee owner while serving as acting commish. https://shepherdexpress.com/sports/brew-crew-confidential/messy-divorce-brewers-paul-molitor/ I found this article while trying to remember the circumstances. It looks even worse than I remembered with Molitor...and it really shows how lucky we are to have a real GM and not Sal Bando.

Yes, I believe so I thought they were not on the hook if the player declined but the team did not.

Well, PFF has graded him out as otherwise, but recently the problem has been that he's been hurt (and at the same time as Bulaga). If history has shown us anything with OL, it's that they take several years to develop. Spriggs was drafted before Bakhtiari made his first pro bowl. And they drafted him because people weren't sold on Bak after 2015, a year in which he was tied for 4th most penalties by an OL (even though he only played in 14 games). Allen Barbre was run out of town after 2009; he went on to play 8 more seasons and start 33 games. Breno Giacomini played one game for the Packers as a 5th round pick in 2008; after leaving, he played seven more years in the league (and was in a training camp this year) and started 86 games. Jamon Meredith didn't make it out of his first training camp; he played seven years in the league, appearing in 67 games and starting 30. Marshall Newhouse was run out of town after 2013; he's still in the league and has started 72 games in his career. The Packers made two bad decisions in 2011 - they let Giacomini walk, and drafted Derrick Sherrod instead. The next 11 picks included Aaron Williams, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Jabaal Sheard, Akeem Ayers, Bruce Carter, Jarvis Jenkins, Brooks Reed, and Kyle Rudolph. I think if you're going to say that Spriggs isn't a bust despite his injuries, then you would need to give Sherrod a huge pass as a very ugly broken leg broken which led to emergency surgery and then complications from that surgery really cost him his athletic ability. As for them drafting Spriggs because they weren't sold on Bahktari and his penalty total, his 10(accepted) in 14 starts looks a lot better than Spriggs 7 in 2 starts this year. Regardless, Bahktari was a full time starter right out of the gate, Spriggs was a guy they traded up for in the 2nd round and has been absolutely abused at guard and beaten badly at tackle by any power rushers he's come up against. Sure, he could still turn it around and there are guys who've left the Packers and played a lot elsewhere. In many of those cases, I think that speaks to the state of OL play in the rest of the league than those players talents. Marshall Newhouse has been a journeyman, Mereideth even moreso...in fact the Packers brought him back in '14 and cut him again. So it's not like they lost anything there. None of those players are really consequential players. I've been on the Spriggs bandwagon the first 3 years, but he's looked bad, especially relative to expectations to this point in his career. And all the journeymen the Packers have moved on from in your estimation prematurely don't really seem relevant to this. He hasn't been run out--which is a term I don't really agree with in the first place, the team moved on from them because they couldn't make our roster--but regardless, they have given him 3 years and will give him at the very least another training camp. So we'll see if he can turn it around. He needs to get stronger as he can't anchor a canoe right now...which makes it especially dangerous to start him at RT since he's not going to start at LT unless Bahktari goes down and the best pash rushers have been rushing from their left more and more often. The idea of him matching up against Mack, Everson Griffen or whomever right now is a scary proposition if you're a Packers fan. Hopefully he'll show up at ST'ing and be ready to go, but do you really want to bank on that again this year? It hasn't panned out up to this point. I'm HOPING Kevin King plays a full season and we can see he and Alexander together. But shouldn't the Packers start to move forward as though that's not the case? He's a FA after this next year assuming he even makes it through the year with the team. Does anyone really feel good about not only moving forward with him, but then if he does stay healthy for a year and have a good stretch then paying him like you have Nick Perry for example? I'll be thrilled to be wrong on him. Like I said, he's an extremely talented athlete and it's rare to find a man who is 6'6 310 who can move like he can, so it'd be great if he could become a really good pass protector. But after another year of him failing to do so, I'd like to see the Packers try to add one early on in the draft. And it's seldom a problem having too many talented linemen. They can easily shuffle tackles to guard...so it'd be a nice problem to have.

It's a well reasoned argument, but I don't believe for a second that teams would value him that lowly. Not with his stuff and how dominant he was for us down the stretch last year and in the playoffs. I think he'd be treated like a 2nd tier closer and with 3 years of team control, I think you'd have 29 teams interested. I also would be surprised if teams are looking to value players quite like this. I think it's a great barometer to compare guys, but I don't think GM's are using WAR to ensure they get equal value in return.

And a few into more than just starters, but All Pro's. Bahktari continues to amaze me. I thought he was a nice surprising stopgap LT, not a franchise LT. Glad I was wrong. Sitton, Lang, both 4th rounders from small schools, Linsley a 5th. And while the OL hasn't look good relative to the past, given the restrictions on practice time has impacted the offensive line more than pretty much any other position. He was a rock, a guy who played here and coached here for 15 years. That's a major loss.

No they don't have to be small..they just tend to be. It's similar to slot corners. If a guy has the athletic ability to play corner and is 6'2, you're more likely to keep them outside. Then again Fitz has moved inside to the slot and put up some monster numbers despite his athletic ability really dropping off in the past few years. Does ANYONE realize his top 3 years catch wise were the past three prior to this year? As for Cobb...I agree, he wasn't ever fast, he was shifty and had good quickness, I just wonder how good he really is right now. Could he be a guy who benefits greatly from the new system that we know likes a lot of WR screens and quick hitters? I just don't have any feel for what he's got left in the tank. It seems like the stagnant offense and him being on the other end of some of Rodgers bigger misses might make him look worse than he really is.

Kinda feels like when we had the Big3 and shoulda made the finals when we lost to the Sixers in 7. The East winner was gonna face Shaq, Kobe and that great Lakers team.

Generally I'd agree with you, but I don't think this is the time to think about that too seriously. Consider it depending on the return. You don't turn down something stupid, but I see no reason to look to trade someone as dominant as Knebel or as key to our late run while he's got 3 years left and when we're returning essentially the entire team that got within 1 game of the World Series last year and has since added the top C on the market and looks like it's bringing back a TOR pitching arm.

You nailed it perfectly. You look at the first draft, Aaron Rodgers-1st, 2nd-Terrance Murphy, 2A-Nick Collins. I'm going off memory here, Collins and Murphy may be flipped, but whatever. That's a franchise QB, a guy who was busting out and turning into a All-Pro Safety, and a freakish talent at WR'er who looked like he was going to be a major factor as a rookie until he suffered a career ending neck injury, but he was what, 6'2, 210 and ran a 4.38 40 and was relatively polished? And then while he had some misses in the first early on, he had big hits in most of those drafts later on. But then you draft Randall 1st overall to play CB and your DB coach says he's a natural safety? What's going on there? You draft ANOTHER guy that very year who like Randall hadn't even played football primarily during his college career? That's a 1st and a 2nd on a HUGE position of need that ended up being terrible. Then come back, use 2 more picks in the 1st and 2nd on secondary players, King and Jones and one has not stayed healthy at all, and Jones just doesn't seem mentally capable of being a full time player despite a ton of talent. Your 4th rounder(1st pick of the 4th) who didn't make it to year two, your 3rd looks like he's not a starter... Yeah, it was ugly late. The 2016 draft does look pretty solid with Clark, 3rd Fackrell, 4th Blake Martinez, 5th Dean Lowry. That being the exception. Of course even there we traded up for a Lane Johnson-esque athletic ability and one of the best OL coaches in the NFL and he's been a bust. I agree with the rest of your post as well. They do still have some talent that needs to be developed and that talent needs to take it upon themselves to do better. Take a damn yoga class if you need to, I'm just sick of watching 15 guys missing with groin injuries every other week. But talent is there. Turnarounds come quick and guys who look solid this time of the year in 12 months can look like big time studs in a years time.

The Rams have fielded a pretty good defense and special teams for a while now. I'm not looking a year by year ranking, but you'll often find defensive performance improve with offensive performance just because it makes the other team more predicable and you're on the field less and you're likely rushing the passer more when you are. This "silo" ideology though isn't really knew. Gibbs on those Redskins teams used to say if you have a question about the defense, go ask the DC(his name escapes me at the moment). I can definitely see both schools of thought, but it's worked awfully well for a lot of teams to have a HC focus on one aspect of the team and a coordinator on the other. Almost exclusively the HC is running the offense and the coordinator in charge of the defense. Ultimately though I just don't agree there was a fundamental problem with McCarthy or Capers beyond talent first and then getting stale. When Capers had the corners to play his style of defense, they were good. They lost Nick Collins, Casey Heyward, Micah Hyde, Sam Shields and others. They couldn't replace them and Capers defense struggled. Hell, they took a fringe All-Pro type pass rusher and moved him to MLB'er because they were so bad there. And it helped, but it still showed how little he had to work with. McCarthy, last year Rodgers got hurt, this year everyone got hurt and Rodgers really played poorly relative to his standards and he lost his job. But the offense had been pretty good prior to that. I'm just excited to get some new blood in here on offense and we got that last year on D and now it's his second year and I expect the results to show that....and I just assume Rodgers doesn't miss the multitude of big throws that he hits in his sleep every other year.

The Colts have had three really good drafts in a row. Not just Nelson and Leonard this year, but all but one 2018 draft pick played in a game this year and both 7th round picks (including Zaire Franklin, a guy I had mocked to the Packers in the 7th) played in all 16 games. Only one 2017 draft pick has played in less than 20 games, and he's also the only player from the 2017 draft to not start at least a few games (including Nate Hairston and Anthony Walker, guys I had mocked to the Packers). Only one player from their 2016 draft has played in less than 30 games, and every player from that draft has started at least one game. I'd look to the Colts scouting department to poach some talent evaluators. All that's true, and the Saints added talent in other drafts as did the other teams. But they added two rookie all-pro starters. One draft stands out more than the others. Incidentally, I said the Colts picked up a all pro caliber CB and a duel threat RB, obviously I meant the Saints with Lattimore and Kamara.

Remember, they will have somewhere around $50M in cap space, maybe a little more if they can restructure Graham and Perry. The draft isn't the only place to source starters. This draft is so deep at DL and to a slightly lesser extent OLB/Edge - and fairly weak at OT and to a lesser extent OG - that I think they go DL/OLB early because they will likely be the positions with the BPA and go the free agent route to shore up OG. There is a lot of depth in free agent OG's too, and the supply/demand could work in their favor and the better value could be OG in FA. Pass rushers and defensive linemen cost a lot more in free agency than guards. I could see an OT early to (hopefully) develop for a year, but don't want to reach for one just for the sake of spending a high draft pick on an OT. Lot of early mocks have a run on EDGE early, so if a guy like Jonah Williams is there at #12 I could see them pulling the trigger. Really like him at OT, but could be a guy they try at G just to get him into the lineup and then kick him out to RT to replace Bulaga. Off topic, but I saw that the Colts will have a league-leading $122M in cap space heading into next season. They hit big in the draft in 2018 also, so they have a young core, a franchise QB already on his 2nd contract, and tons of cap space. They are set up well - and they're not even done playing yet this season. I was a HUGE fan of Quenton Nelson coming out. I knew he wouldn't last to the Packers, but was just praying he wouldn't fall to the Bears (who had just hired ND's o-line coach) because I knew he would terrorize us for the next decade. Thankfully the Colts nabbed him at 6. Some kids want to see QB/RB/TE highlights - my boys ask me before bedtime to see film of Quenton Nelson mauling defenders. The idea of drafting a guy like Jonah Williams isn't an "exciting" move, but the more I keep thinking about it and watching the playoffs and see the other teams best rusher constantly lining up on the left(over the RT/RG)...the more I like it. He provides depth at the tackle spots and I actually think he try him outside first and slide Bulaga inside to guard. The idea being the OL is disrupted less if you have to replace a guard due to injury and while Bulaga IS still elite and they could easily keep him at tackle...I'm just wondering when the bottom drops out on his athletic ability as a pass blocking tackle as the knee and lower leg injuries pile up.

There is no way in the world the Brewers could add 67% to their payroll! Nobody knows what the tv deal will be, except it will be less than 1/4 of the Cubs or Dodgers deal. Increased attendance won't bring much, and costs are increasing. Their MAX will be around $117-120M for this year. Right now I too think they are at that sum, so unless a trade of Anderson and/or Thames comes to pass, Stearns is done. First, there's a big difference between what we can do and what Mark A. is willing to do, and I guess that's what we'll find out. Mark A. has a $700M net worth. If he wants to push the payroll to $150M this season and he anticipates $140M in revenue, he could operate at a $10M loss if he felt the long-term investment was worth the price. He absolutely COULD do it if he wanted. Doesn't mean he would, but he could. Making the playoffs is worth a great deal of revenue to a franchise. A World Series, especially for Milwaukee, is worth far more in potential revenue. There is more to it than just "we have X amount of dollars to spend on payroll this year." If you have several 1 year expiring contracts, he could say, "Ok, we can go to $140M this year, but next year we need to be around $100M." There's a lot of different factors at play, and the big picture covers more than just one season. We were up around $100M at times in the Melvin era when we were looking to contend, and other times when we were rebuilding we were closer to $60M, because in the bigger picture it didn't need to be more than that. It doesn't mean we had that much less to spend that year. So....let me see if I can wrap my head around this. You're saying there is nuance and that people without the exact numbers and without knowing exactly what Mark A is thinking can't say with absolute certainty what we can or cannot do? Interesting...

CC was on record saying he was only looking for 17 outs from the SP or something along those lines. Before the game started CC already knew when he was going to pull the SP independent of how the game was going. Frankly, I can't believe CC would say something so stupid and ridiculous. So if one of our pitchers was throwing a perfect game through 17 outs...he's pulling him anyway. No way would CC back himself into a corner like that. Unless you have a source, I wouldn't buy that for a second. I think CC did say he was only "looking" for 17 outs...that certainly doesn't mean it was pre-determined that once we got to that point we were going to pull our starter, irrespective of how he was doing or the game situation. Seems like he's combing what was actually said, and then added his own inference to it. Obviously if a starter is at 70 pitches and rolling you don't yank him.

If we look at where he's been they've had some smaller slot guys: Taylor Gabriel in Atlanta, Jamison Crowder in Washington for example. Cooper Kupp is 6'2" but he is a really good slot guy too so at the very least he effectively uses that position. I'd imagine if Cobb is let go they'll sign someone. I like LouisEly's idea of signing Humphries. Yeah, but aren't the majority of slot guys smaller? If you have a guy with the quickness and ability to catch the ball over the middle, you usually try to use them on the perimeter first. I'm guessing Julio Jones could have thrived in the slot....

Just tossing this out there. The guy has obviously agitated the Steelers to the point where they're willing to trade a WR'er who's started his career like few have in the history of the game and take a 21 million dollar cap hit this year to do so. That being said, he's also a complete game changer and would be the most dynamic WR'er we've had in the modern era. Assuming he doesn't demand a new deal since he already got his guaranteed money from the Steelers, the only risk we'd be taking on is his year to year salary and...of course the potential for him to clash with the young HC. I would THINK Rodgers would be a big enough personality and getting dumped from one of the leagues other cornerstone franchises, but you also think he'd be happy enough getting 20 million a year and passes from Aaron Rodgers? And while we certainly have other needs, we're talking about a guy who's AVERAGED 114 receptions, 1,524 yards, and 11 TD's the last 6 seasons. That's just ridiculous. Maybe the Saints 1st and the Washington 4th? You'd be trotting out the leagues best WR'er duo in Adams and Brown, you have Jones and Williams at RB, and you still have young talent you can develop in Scantling and St. Brown, both of whom showed a ton of upside this past year. You still need to address the tackle position in some way. As a protection against a Bahktari injury or Bulaga, both of whom are elite when healthy, though the latter has struggled to stay healthy. But that's an explosive offense that I think could be the best in the league. He will turn 31 next year, but our window is obviously not infinite. You need to do something while you have Rodgers at QB. Thoughts?

One guy I forgot to mention as a possible target, Anthony Barr. I think he's mis-cast in Minnesota's defense and think he'd be a great fit in ours. Coming out of college, he was mentioned as a Mack like talent...and while I wouldn't suggest he is, I do think he could thrive as a LB'er in our system. Pettine using our OLB'ers in coverage more than usual in the 3-4, but I think he's got the speed, strength and bend to be a really good pass rusher. He just wasn't utilized in Zimmer's D. He's also a lot more realistic than Clowney since the Texans have 20 million more in cap room than us.

I think we all agree that we need an influx of talent. You look at teams that have those big turnarounds, the Eagles last year, the Colts, Bears, Saints....there's a lot of examples over the past few years of teams that go from the top of the draft or middle of it to being a legitimate contender, and those teams, much like this Packers team had a lot of young guys with question marks pan out. The flip side is there are teams that just continue to struggle, but I'm willfully taking an optimistic point of view. There are a few guys who could really flash this year to change the team significantly. Kevin King....he starts 16 games and I think he'll be a pro-bowler. One of the young WR'ers makes the 2nd year leap and we've got two legit, big target playmakers on the outside...and so on. Most importantly though is all those teams hit big on the draft. The Colts picked up the best LB'er(arguably...Smith was pretty damn good last year) and offensive linemen in last years draft. The Colts the year before picked up a All-Pro caliber CB and a dual threat RB. I just feel confident because I think we struggled last year because Rodgers struggled....McCarthy just got stale in GB(still a great coach, but as a number of well renowned coaches have stated, 10 years is the maximum lifespan of a coach...even greats like Knoll, Landry, Shula...had limited success after those first 10 years) . Guys just stop responding....with the exception apparently of BB in NE. So I think a HC who can generate excitement and engage the players and bring creativity to the offense and Rodgers playing like he had prior to last year where he just missed too many guys for someone of his talent...and I think we're a 9-ish win team right there before any additions. I think with the right additions and some aggressive moves...that could turn into a 11,12 win team and a legit contender again. And I wouldn't even bother worrying about the Cap. All our contracts right now are pretty safe. If a Clowney gets to free agency, get irresponsible. Give him 6/130 with 60 guaranteed. Elite defensive players raise the level of play of the defenders they play with. Clowney doesn't have gaudy sack numbers, but he's an all around player and a dynamic one. Clowney would also free up Clark, Daniels, Lowry, hopefully Wilkerson and maybe Adams if he can continue to improve. A guy like Earl Thomas could do the same in the backend. These are long shots, and we also need to get lucky(King starting 16 games for example). But it takes luck to get to a SB.

Ohh...love the idea of snagging Amos away from the Bears. Like the idea of Earl Thomas as well as he was the best player on those Seattle teams IMO. But Amos is two birds-one stone. As for Bulaga...he is still elite...when he plays. I guess I'm just a bit weary of depending on him. If you do draft an elite tackle early on though, he can certainly play guard. And I absolutely agree we need a guy who's got the footwork to play LT. We're spoiled with Bahktari. Plus...he wasn't the type that started out great. He started out surprisingly good starting right away, but didn't look like a franchise LT. Then he just kept improving until he became the best pass blocking LT in the league(or at least among the top 2-3).

I don't really know if this is derailing the thread. It's part of the discussion as to why we were able to sign a player many thought would get this amount over several years. The 15K per inning sarcastic remark kinda gets me. We're not comparing these guys to average people, rather the market in which they operate. It's millionaires and billionaires. So if the millionaires think the billionaires are conspiring, it's their right to change the CBA. Anyway, I like the guy's numbers, but my only problem is the last two years the Dodgers opted to bench him and go with Austen Barnes in the post-season after Grandal struggled very badly. That concerns me.....is as much as a few games should be concerned. Of course had he thrived in the post-season, he likely would have gotten this AAV over 3-4 years likely. But he sure changes the look of this lineup for the first 162 games....and he comes with very little risk.

Didn't have time to read all of that(I will later). But what I read I agreed with. Rodgers was actually horrible this year compared to what he's capable of. In most QB's this translates to more turnovers, but with Aaron, it was just SOOO many throws he missed that could have or would have resulted in big plays. I don't think he's slowed down at all in terms of physical ability, I just think he has a bad year. His worst to be honest as a professional, stats aside. But I'll just say this...they've got talent. They've got young talent all over the offense..the OL is actually well above average with the best pass blocking LT in his prime and a anchor at C. I'd like to see Bulaga brought back at about 5 million, but a tackle drafted in the 1st to take over long term. But aside from that, RB is good, WR'er is loaded with young, explosive talent. I'd like to add a Greg Jennings type there(I know people do not like him, but he was SOOO important for Rodgers, a precision route runner with that elite quickness where he could get open immediately and the ability to get YAC yards. So maybe add a good, quicker young slot WR'er and say thanks to Cobb. At TE, Tonyan looks like he could really develop...we could keep who we have and be solid there next year. So offense, I'd like a slot WR'er, and a tackle and I don't think we need to invest much after that. Defensively, our DL looks set. Our CB's look pretty good. King could be a all pro but he can't stay healthy. Maybe he does next year. MLB'er looks good with Blake and Burks moving forward and maybe Ryan as a special teamer and run stuffer. So that leaves OLB'er and safety. I'd go hard after Clowney. Huge risk, huge reward. He's an elite edge defender. I'd go after him and go after multiple OLB'ers in the draft. If Clay wants more than 3/21, move on. Love him, but he's a situational pass rusher now. At safety, Earl Thomas is likely too much to hope for(so is Clowney most likely) but he's the type of guy who could help us turn it around REAL quick if not. He's the best safety in the league IMO. He hits like a semi despite not being that big and he covers a ton of ground. I would bank on that holding up coming off injury. Bottom line, you look at the Saints, or Colts or Chargers or a bunch of other teams with good to great QB's who struggled and then turned it around in a very short period of time, and they all have some luck(for us that would be King staying healthy, maybe Josh Jones turning it around and Tonyan, St. Brown, or Valdes becoming big time studs) and then really hitting early in the draft. We have 3 top 44 picks this year. Gotta come up with a big time play maker. I don't care if that's Ed Oliver if he drops even if he doesn't fit. Gotta find a way to shore up the OL and turn that into a strength instead of it being just "better than average" at a time when OL play is at an all time low. And we HAVE to get some pass rushers from the edge so the guys in the middle can have a bigger impact. Oh, and if this was baseball, the one guy I'd be looking hard to trade is Kyler Fackrell. I've never seen a guy wrap up so many QB's trying to escape the pocket as him. He's barely a viable backup. Edit-Didn't bother mentioning Alexander because he's obviously a HUGE hit for us this past year. I know Davenport looked good in NO, but I'm thrilled to have Alexander an an extra first in one of the best drafts for defensive pass rushers in recent history. And Josh Jackson looks like a keeper. Not sure if he's a future safety or CB, but definitely a stud.

I think they "can". I don't think they're favorites. That's still the Warriors. Especially if Boogie comes back, and plays even 60% of the way we know he can play. I think this is finally the year the Bucks break through and WIN A PLAYOFF SERIES!!!! OMG OMG OMG and maybe even 2, or even 3, and get to the finals. I think the East is the Raps and the Bucks. The Celts just don't seem to be a serious contender (convince me otherwise), and the Pacers might have a record a slight notch below the BUcks and Raps, but I just don't see it. The West.......wow. There's a whole lotta teams within a few games of the top seed. I think ultimately it's the Warriors, the Nuggets or maaaaaaaybe the Lakers. I think they're still a year away though. They beat us last year when they DIDN'T have Kyrie or Gordon. That team is WAAAY too talented and their coach is WAAAY too good to not turn it on this year. And I can't write off a team with Embid, Simmons and Butler, petulant as two of them may often be. It's just too bad Parker didn't pan out. I feel like we're another Middleton level player from being a legitimate threat. We're gonna have to be a Piston's type team(a whole team, not a couple superstars)...and I don't think that's enough to beat the Warriors as they're currently configured, much less if they get Boogie back and he contributes 10-15 good minutes a game, hardly a unreasonable prospect...in fact, if Draymond keeps struggling, he could fill his role a little more and distribute the ball more than he has.... [sarcasm]Of course we know we can count on Thon playing about 10x better when the playoffs roll around than he does during the regular season(which isn't saying much as of now)...so that might help...[/sarcasm]

Some of them were. But he put up an absolute iron clad, 1st ballot, HOF career before the PED's. Like I said, he was basically Mike Trout if Trout continues to be a dominant player until he's 34 before he started the PED's. Then he was a joke.....a video game-esque type player playing AGAINST a league that was full of people abusing PED's. One of my least favorite players...but undeniably a HOF'er.