OnTheBlack

Yeah, but it's not about liking the guy. Barry Bonds was not just a great player, a historically great player well before the PED's(which I think we can pinpoint pretty clearly). If Mike Trout continues to dominate for another 7-8 years, even if you find out he's the real version of what people THINK Ty Cobb is, would you say he's not a HOF'er? And then how he dominated? It just showed how much greater he was than everyone else. This isn't supposed to be a personality contest. Bonds wasn't a criminal...he was just a historically great player who saw the attention lesser players were getting by going on PED's and his ego was too big to stay clean and let them out-perform him. Same with Clemens. These guys had HOF careers before the PED's(though it's far tougher to identify when Clemens started them....unless there is something I don't know). As for Alomar, don't get the Alomar disdain unless it's just the spitting in the ump's face. Not that it's insignificant, but measure it against an entire career. Name me a better 2nd basemen in the last 100 years aside from Morgan and Hornsby. Not being facetious, I honestly can't think of one.

Right, they're young, they haven't yet hit full-season ball yet, and one of them was talked about as the potential top pick in the draft(though from now until next year there will be probably 30 guys who scouts speculate "could" be the top pick in the draft).

So you didn't imagine the team losing him signing Britton for 3 years 40 million. I'd have agreed with you when you said it though.

Agreed...and by then we'll have at least some feel for Dubon most likely. But I don't like the idea of giving up on Arcia after a really productive season as a whole and then a down season offensively in his first two years at 22 and 23.

No...it's not.

One can afford to sign a guy to a couple guys 20+ million a season to be #4 starters or platoon starters while the other desperately needs the draft to continue to succeed. This...questionable signing doesn't make me a fan of our trade. I was kinda hoping we'd be able to keep stacking talent while our unexpected timeline for competing had moved forward. It seems to me like we're trading away what expendable tradable assets we have for not a lot in return. Though I trust Stearns as he's given us little reason not to thus far.

They're rebuilding and wanted younger players to play and didn't want a malcontent in the locker room whining about playing time? Under that scenario if he had value they would have eaten much of his contract and traded him. Instead they ate everything except possibly veteran minimum if someone else signs him to kick the tires. I don't blame teams for being interested in Tulo at veteran minimum. But to think you can just pencil him in as a starter is foolish. He's just a lottery ticket. I haven't seen a whole lot of people just "penciling him in as a starter." But thanks for mentioning how foolish something that nobody said was. You seem to be a "rain on the parade type of guy." Almost everyone has said, "low risk, high reward, if he doesn't produce, at least he's cheap, he can play all over, nice stopgap to Hirura for 600K....etc...etc...etc.." Or how MAYBE we could get lucky and he could have a bounce back year...but still with the caveat that it's a low risk, high reward type deal. Not to mention, a lot of players get bought out and go on to provide varying levels of value at the league minimum on other teams.

Exactly. And I've said it over & over about Scooter: if you want the Scooter of the last 2 years you'd also need the Reds' hitting coach. It is well documented that he helped significantly in changing Scooter's swing. Slightly off topic, but I hope we overstated how big of an impact Johnson had on our pitching staff. That might be the biggest off-season move we've made(or not made) so far if he really did have that big of a positive impact on the staff.

No kidding.....I've turned into a guy who roots for Scooter to a guy who almost dosn't like him for the irrational reason that people who seemingly don't understand why he was let go KEEP bringing him up. Scooter Gennett has nothing to do with Keston Hirura. Why anyone even said, "I'd rather have Scooters last two seasons over Hirura." I'd rather have a lot of guys over a lot of guys on this current team. But it'd seem to be more logical to discuss the guys we actually control.

I agree. I did say if they moved Puig in another deal, opening up a spot in their lineup for a good 4th OF'er. That said, his talent is pretty enticing. But I can't stand watching guys who can't run out a ground ball. It's one thing if it's your pitcher, or a good player who has a injury, but playing hard doesn't take talent.

Santana was junk for the majority of last year. Are we just going to ignore that? Certainly not. He had a down year, but that certainly doesn't make his value worthless. The Brewers would certainly have to add substantial value to Santana to get Bauer. But Santana has more upside than anything the Indians have in their outfield. He was also in a lineup with Yelich and Cain who were obviously going to get every opportunity and then Ryan Braun. I don't think he'd have struggled like that had he been given a long leash. But that's speculative. What's not is that he's young and talented and he's proven that he is capable of hitting major league talent. Perfect for a team that's a contender and a probably has the highest odds of making the playoffs as of today than any other team in baseball because of their awful division, but one that is also trying to cut costs while remaining competitive. Again, doesn't mean he's going to be the main piece in a trade for a established TOR pitcher or a young cost controlled pitcher with high upside.

Because Kemp only has one year left. Question is why would the Dodgers do this? They want to get rid of an OFer. Not just swap and still have the same problem. Because Braun was much better than his numbers indicated last year. I never looked at the end of the year numbers, but at the start of Sept his exit velocity was right around his career high and his other peripherals like chase rate, etc...all were much better than his last few seasons and right around Yelich. His BABIP was also much lower(while Yelich was much higher). And despite all that, he did still have a .782 OPS for the year. Not hard to see him bouncing back next year and posting a OPS ~840 in 400 or so PA's. So IF the Dodgers were to be interested in Braun, it'd likely be for that reason. But my guess is that would only come if they moved Puig in another deal and were looking for someone to be a 4th OF'er AND they didn't have to take on a lot of money.

Not unless the Mets think far higher of the rest of our farm system than everyone else seemingly does. But I look at that potential transaction that the Mets would make...Hader+Burnes for Thor, then sign Corbin. I'm a broken record here, but we CAN afford a 5 year 115 million dollar deal for Corbin. I think 5/125 with a team option in year 6 where we buy him out for 7.5 million or keep him for say...30 million might be more realistic given the NY-Corbin connection. But still, there are not many times when you're as close as the Brewers are right now to winning a World Series. I know this would hurt a bit down the road, but....you go from game 7 of the NLCS without a legit front of the rotation starter to coming back with essentially the same team, but you add Nelson and Corbin to that team? Why trade away 9 years of potentially elite pitching so another team can sign Corbin before we at least see if we can lure him away from New York? So I like this move better; Brewers KEEP Hader+Burnes AND Sign Patrick Corbin. At that point, our 25 man is all but set with just a few small adjustments here or there. A couple of Gallardo/Miley type moves...and the rest can hopefully come from within the system. And we still have plenty of in house talent to bring up to fill some holes, namely Dubon and Hirura, but also possibly someone like Brown who forces his way into the pen next year as Peralta and Burnes did this past year.

I can't say that he'll get it or not, but I'd be shocked if he didn't TRY to go after a legitimate TOR arm this off-season. And again, since last year, I'm all in on Corbin. Of course last year I was all in on him as a low risk, high upside type guy...and now it's high risk/high upside. But still, he just strikes me as the absolute perfect fit for the Brewers. A few years where I think he's dominant and then I think he ages well as a smart lefty into his 30's. I was also all in on signing Chatwood to the type of deal he signed last off-season just to make it clear this isn't a "see how right I was," type post. Nelson/Corbin/Chacin/Burnes and a whole slew of options in the 5th slot. I also happen to think Woody can be a dominant multiple inning right handed reliever as he was this past off-season.

I feel like he's exactly what we need right now. A trusted, viable vet coming off yet another solid, yet unspectacular year who will not command a ton on the open market. ERA of 3.6 in over 170 innings pitched(I get ERA isn't the best indicator, but he was solid). I'll take him. I'd be upset if he was our lone accusation and we didn't still go after that TOR arm, but...I have no problem bringing him back...if for no other reason than he could help limit the innings Burnes or Peralta or Woodruff or any combination of the three have to pitch through August next year. Do what the Red Sox did or the Dodgers did. Put Burnes on the DL in July to give him a few weeks off, follow that up with Peralta...and you have a really reliable pitcher to handle those innings.

Sheffield is #1 for me and after that I don't really care. Yuni was just bad at baseball, but I don't hate him for it. Unless Schoop decides to drag his former team and/or city through the mud on his way out, I see no reason to hate him any more than I don't hate Jeff Suppan. I agree....I have a real problem with these types of lists usually. Anyone who's played sports(at ANY level) has been bad at times. And in baseball when you sign for a lot or are in a playoff race, the biggest enemy is too much effort. I don't hate Yuni, I don't hate Suppan, I don't hate Wolf....I like Weeks. I do hate Gantner, but that's for a personal reason. And a young, immature Sheff definitely deserves the ire of Brewers fans. But unless you insult the team or the team gives up a lot of money or assets for you and you just don't run our balls like Machado(which realistically could have cost the Dodgers a lot more in that playoff series) I just want you off the team. No animosity behind it.

If that third piece isn't big, i think this is a good trade for the Pirates. Glasnow looks like a bust and Meadows hasn't lived up to his earlier prospect status. Meadows is 23 and has 150 career ABs. A little premature to say if he is or isn't living up to prospect status. I would say the same about Glasgow. Both were outstanding talents and extremely highly rated coming into the season. I think it comes down to this, if you want to make trades all the time and devalue prospects, they're two disappointing pieces because they haven't come out of the gates red hot. If you like prospects, you see all the controllable years and the upside to those two players...and if the third is a significant piece? I'm really just happy the Pirates made the move, not us. That's a ton to give up for Archer.

I suppose everything is subject to change but Counsell said he is not playing SS. From my understanding, Arcia is going to be playing every day from here on out for his defense. He's going to be in the spot in the shift that the ball is most likely going to get hit to...they're going to rely on him to cover ground and make up for some other area's. It seemed to be like we were gonna ride with Arcia the rest of the way-regardless if he's hitting .350 or .150. That was just my impression. Edit-There may be some degree of hyperbole in here, but not much....

Then you just liked him because he was a relatively nonathletic, over-achieving white dude(NOT saying you have any ill will towards anyone else based on race at all). Villar was playing better when he was getting more at bats. Sogard had a hot start when he was with us. Fans...in Wisconsin in particular, tend to like the guy who has no expectations, is a hard worker and they seem to weigh that a little heavily in grading a player and comparing them to similar players. And...if they look like you(Jordy in GB)....it helps a little. But I like both the guys we added. I just don't understand why we added BOTH. I like that we should have Schoop next year. I hope we don't dump Shaw and try to keep Moose because that doesn't seem like a great move for us...a lateral move(talking about next year when/if Schoop is at 2nd regularly) and we lose age and control. But...Stearns has done a lot of nice things, and with that comes the benefit of the doubt. He did pick up an enormously talented player today. A guy who can scare people at the bottom of the lineup and a RH'ed bat...so, figure it out Craig!

I personally think Bundy has the highest ceiling on your list with "Jake Arrietta in-his-prime", ACE potential. I don't feel the same way about Nelson and assuming he will return to his 2016 form could be fools play. I think besides Bundy, Freddy P has the next highest ceiling on your list, IMO. I love Burnes but that's not because of his ceiling, but instead because of his high floor. I think he'll be a solid #2-#3 starter with a long career. Because of that, I really don't want the Brewers to trade him. In the last 3+ decades, the Brewers have developed as many players like that that you can count on one hand! I think Peralta's nice start has made us forget about what type of stuff Burnes has and what type of pitcher Nelson was last year. I just don't see why Peralta has more upside moving forward than either. Burnes has demonstrated better command, better velo, just as good, if not a better off-speed pitch, and he's got a better change. I do agree he's got a higher floor, but I also think he has a higher ceiling. And Nelson already has most of a year pitching like a ace(maybe a lower end ace, but still an ace) for a contender. I like Freddie as a 180 inning #3 ish pitcher...

There's a natural aversion to losing guys/changing things for fans who follow teams too closely. Case in point, I don't recall ever seeing a single person on here praise Kodi Medeiros as a prospect, and suddenly lots of people were aghast at losing him for Soria. Come on The vast majority of the criticism isn't over trading away Phillips/Lopez. Both were expendable. What most don't like about the move is trading for a thirdbaseman instead of a middle infielder, forcing Shaw to play secondbase. Had we traded those two guys for say Asdrúbal Cabrera or Dozier instead of Moustakas, the criticism wouldn't be the same. No kidding. Plus, talk about hyperbole. Everyone was "aghast"? at losing Medeiros, but you never saw a single person praise him? I think you need to read closer. Of lower the importance of what YOU'VE seen. He was a power lefty arm, a former first round pick and he was performing well in AA. That said, almost everyone I've seen has been fine with who we've given away. Our 40 man crunch has just been significantly lessened with the last few trades. It's as if Stearns is taking guys who are on the bubble and using them(or guys who are blocked as Phillips is) to upgrade this team. The reason anyone MIGHT have been "aghast" like a 1950's actress in a terror movie, is that we're putting Shaw at 2nd base. And all I've seen there is skepticism about how he'll do there given he's NEVER PLAYED IT. And finally, this is in response to another poster who was upset that people are "putting forth opinions" before we actually see what Shaw does and that we should just sit back and have a beer and enjoy the game....well, then lets shut down the board. If this board isn't hear to discuss opinions and speculate and exchange ideas on, then what's really the point?

Finally? Hasn't he done this several times in the past few years? Boras gets the biggest deals done...but he's also hurt some clients when he's trying to reset the market and the teams just aren't biting. And I don't see a guy who coming off a very good year who gets 6.5 million "easily" getting 80 million when you have Machado, Donaldson and Beltre available at the same position he plays.

Despite only 5 starts (4 really, since he left the Cleveland game after one out), Miley has been solidly above replacement level so far. It may not be pretty, but he has yet to give up more than 2 runs when he's pitched. And the rest of the rotation? Sure, there is room for improvement, but the team has 60 wins, and has rarely missed a beat despite substantial injuries and no contribution from Nelson. Yeah, DJ gets a lot of the credit, but you could also suggest that the front office may have had a better feel for the depth that was there than us fans actually did. This is why speaking in absolutes is dangerous. Despite your repeated assertations that the Brewers would sign another starter, they didn't. But the one they did sign (Chacin) has been an anchor in the rotation, and the other options available to them have been terrible for the teams they did sign with. Seems like the GM made the right decisions there. Go and actually look at Jesus' defensive performance this year- almost exactly average as a 1B. Not a DH at all. And Thames? Sure, he's more valuable as a DH. But he's missed significant time this year, and has still contributed enough with the bat to be valuable. How does that put 'heavy lifting' on Counsell, exactly? Isn't the manager supposed to determine how to get his best players on the field? Was the Matt Kemp stuff an actual, legitimate rumor, or just people speculating on a message board? Until his resurgance last year, Kemp looked even worse on paper than Braun, and the only reason a trade seemed to make sense was because he was overpaid for less years. If you saw his 2018 performance coming, please tell me tonight's Powerball numbers. You mean the trade to replace a terrible backup catcher who wasn't supposed to be the backup until another guy's career ended unexpectedly? And despite how Kratz has performed, he's actually been better than Bandy was in his time here and only slightly below replacement level... seems like they actually did upgrade the #2 catcher position via that no-cost move.... You mean that move that happened two seasons ago? Again, if you saw Scooter's explosion coming, I'll take those Lottery numbers. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt that Villar could have been predicted to step back some. But if we're not looking back in hindsight, what would things have looked like on this board if they had instead dumped the guy who had just OPS'd .826 with 62 steals as a 25 year old and kept the 27 year old who had regressed the previous two seasons and played below-average defense. And yeah, Miller didn't work out. But don't the acquisitions of Saladino and Miller show the willingness of the front office to try and fix the problems or get rid of some of the 'heavy lifting' you're claiming the coaches have to do? This also requires the assumption that those acquisitions (especially Miller) were only related to 2B and had nothing to do with trying to fix the unexpected Arcia problem, which is massively incorrect. Sure, I suppose it's puzzling on paper. But most of us would at least like to see two things- 1) how does Shaw actually look if he plays there, and/or 2) what does the team actually look like at the end of the day on Tuesday? Moaning about the move today doesn't even give it a chance to see whether it works out or not, or what comes next. Great post. I would also add, I think our manager is pretty involved in these decisions given he was working in the front office and looked to be in the FO for the next several years before they pried him out of there to manage a rebuilding team. I'm sure Stearns doesn't just send out a memo to the Manager saying, "you're gonna play Shaw at 2nd." I would guess there is some discussion that goes into it. I would further guess that Craig was MORE than happy to keep Aguilar this year on the 25 man and didn't look at him as a DH type player whatsoever. With regard to Wade Miley, so they signed a cheap veteran pitcher to add rotation depth. Again, not sure how that makes CC or DJ jobs harder in the least bit. And I'm not even going to address the "gritty" second basemen who went to a hitters park and turned his career around. At the time, letting Gennett go with Arcia coming up and Villar coming off his huge season was not only reasonable, it didn't make much sense to NOT dump him. And I was always a fan of Gennett. The guy went back home, changed his swing and turned into a great player. Is it at ALL possible to just give HIM credit for turning it around rather than taking credit away from the Brewers for him not doing it in Milwaukee? Also, the list of things that Stearns has done to make CC's job easier is a long one, starting with an absolute steal of a trade in pulling in Yellich, signing Cain, stealing Shaw from the Sox among other moves. THIS move to me today doesn't make sense. But there hasn't been another that I've sat there and really scratched my head on, and if we're talking about predicting Matt Kemp was gonna have the type of year he was gonna have, then we're not really having a reasonable argument. Unlikely things happen in baseball where there is so much room for variables. Braun meanwhile has been hitting the ball harder than all but a few players in the NL and is having a career worst season. But not only do we NOT know that we could have traded Braun for Kemp straight up, I would have bet on Braun having a better year than Kemp with the bat this year.

No, and I respect that, but this move still on it's face seems desperate. Also, this is the first time Stearns has had a contender...and a team that was expected to be one. So....I'll support it, but there are obvious reasons to be skeptical. I just have a little trouble seeing Shaw playing on the edge of the grass, a hard hit ball to Arcia and him being able to turn two, or him having much range. His arm won't be an issue... We shall see. Maybe he'll surprise us and play only slightly below average D out there or even average. Just gonna have to wait and see how it goes.

I'm with virtually everyone here. I'm not upset about giving away two guys who were almost in the way with regards to what's going to be a crowded 40 man roster this next off-season and where some tough decisions just got a bit easier. I like Moose. So the value in that trade is fine. And while Shaw's not a 70 year old man with arthritic knees and I don't want to rise to that level of hysteria as Stearns has been a pretty damn good GM for us, I just can't wrap my head around Shaw at 2nd. Maybe he'll be much better than we expect. Maybe he's never gonna actually play there and he'll be in another trade shortly(I do kinda doubt they're gonna give up a viable 3rd baemen without any replacement for him given how long it's taken to develop one and the ONE real hope we have is still two years away most likely). Maybe this will magically work out like Carpenter did when he moved to 2nd....but this rumor had me scratching my head and this move has me doing it even more. Could Dozier really have cost that much more for example? Give me him over Moose any day of the week. He is a plug and play guy without having to throw caution to the wind when it comes to Defense. Oh...and this also impacts Arcia. We better hope he can start swinging the bat, because there is NO WAY you can take him out of the line up now. You may have to deal with two pitcher type holes in your lineup, because even if he's hitting .190, I don't see how you go back to Saladino and his terrible D(and worse facial hair).