Bulldogboy

That hurts. I'm sad

Why wouldn't I be? Just thought you would be getting to bed so you can get up early to save more lives and all.

I'd look for another job if I was held solely responsible for people that couldn't do their job for months at a time and I got fired for it. That sounds like a horrible job and a horrible place to work. I'm responsible for multiple teams performing multi-million dollar projects that literally involve life and death on a daily basis. If I've got someone that is not performing we have processes in place to coach that performer. If they don't improve they get punched, it isn't on my job to ensure someone can perform their job if they have been given the appropriate instruction and coaching. Just because I have a bad performer or two doesn't mean I'm not doing my job or even that my teams are not hitting their goals. This is what is happening with the Brewers. The non-performers are getting the boot, not the managers. And yet here you are...

Come on homer, he already declared victory. You can't drag him back out on the field! No dog maybe a child you have to tuck in? Don't tell my you live alone in a van down by... you know.

Like I said if people think Stearns dealt poor Chris Hook a bad hand so be it.

In other words your argument is completely arbitrary. You simply want someone to pay for the failures of the pitching staff but don't want to actually blame those doing the pitching? Wouldn't then, the buck stop with DS since he a) let DJ walk and b) hired hook? I suggest you go to work and not execute your job properly for a few months and then see if you or your boss is in the unemployment line. They absolutely think he is good enough for better or worse and they have demonstrated that repeatedly so you may be a tad disappointed. I am responsible for people and their performance at my job. If that performance isn't good enough I fully expect I will be held accountable. It's on me to get them to perform and produce to expectations. It comes with the job. Like I said you like Hook God Bless. I would look for an upgrade. That's all man.

Hmm, here I thought the actual guys doing the pitching were responsible for the pitching. Silly me. Right. Why ever fire anyone? Lifetime Bring back Rene Lachman after all it's the players fault

But this team had such high expectations coming into the year! They haven't lived up to them! Someone's head has to roll, and Hook is an easy target! I mean, have you seen where they are in the sta ... oh, wait Yeah they are the freaking Dodgers. They are winning it all!! Extensions for all even the stalker board people!!

That's a logical response when you have nothing left. Nothing left? You said my argument was dumb three pages ago yet you're still arguing. It's funny you must not have any pets to walk either.

Now that Joey Gammons is in I will say one last time Hook is responsible for the pitching. The pitching is not good. As a result he should be fired. It may not all be his fault but the buck stops with him. If they think he's good enough so be it but frankly I don't think they will. Now if you want to blame Stearns and say what's Hook supposed to do with these clowns ok I guess. I'd prefer to fire Hook rather than Stearns.

At least he's trying to make the point but, nope. I think he's on the right track. Much closer than your take that Chris Hook is the new Dave Duncan.

I was having fun reading the responses. To think that a trivial position such as the pitching coach is actually more important than holding the actual players accountable for their own performance? It's pretty funny actually. Then you having the ego to claim that you "won" the argument? Heck, that is message board gold! Joey. The dog is very lonely man.

I guess my question is who has the most control over pitch sequencing? Are most of the pitch selections coming from the dugout? Is that different from last year? I'm guessing Grandal has the decisions and confers with Hook between innings??

Yep.

LOL ... you aren't "winning" anything. Great. Just who I need to weigh in Joey Gammons king of all baseball knowledge. Awesome. Now I know I'm right!!

You're right. You been losing it all night. Not much of an argument at all.

It really isn't. Yeah it is.

You just called out exactly what I'm saying. The PITCHERS are having trouble executing. Nobody asked you to buy it but yeah, that is what I'm saying. I mean, at this point you're just making my argument for me. No, Hook doesn't actually make the pitches and if you think there is a single pitcher in professional baseball that doesn't understand the concept of pitching 0-2 then I have a bridge to sell you. They shouldn't have to be told and if they do I'm 1000% sure that Hook is not telling them to groove pitches in 0-2 counts. That is just a ridiculous notion. It's not a matter of listening, it's a matter of having the talent to execute. Are you really going to look at the Isle of Misfit Toys that constitutes our bullpen right now and claim he hasn't improved a pitchers performance? What about Woody? There are others. What about the much improved performance of late? There is plenty of evidence including the release and/or demotion of multiple pitchers that played big roles last year. Not wanting to see it is antoher story. The pitching has not been good enough. Hold the man in charge of it accountable. It's simple. I get it you think he's awesome. As I said before we will see.

That's all I'm saying. It really isn't controversial. One guy is making it that way but reality is we need to do better. He's a big boy and he's accountable.

I never said I wanted Hook back. I couldn't care less as to whether he is here or not. I also never said pitching coaches don't matter. I happen to think the talent level of the actual pitchers matters more. I think he's done a decent job given the injuries and talent level and apparently so do others so your wrong on that too. Would you like to bring DJ back? Is he a good pitching coach? Explain why his staff has dropped a run in ERA in the second half while, in theory, upgrading talent from Roark to Bauer? I do watch the games and I see pitchers failing to execute pitches. Simple as that. Keep Hook, fire Hook, I really don't care one way or the other but the reasons for getting rid of him that you have presented in this thread have been pretty easily refuted and/or lack statistical proof. This started with your statement that the gopher ball Hader gave up was a "Chris Hook special" as if that were a thing. Even if it were a thing it was a ridiculous statement. That home run was on Hader and his inability to execute on that pitch.............period. You claimed they weren't pitching better of late. A notion that was dispelled by other posters and statistical evidence. Once that was refuted you resorted to a "my eyes tell me" argument about walking batters and 0-2 counts, none of which you can back up. There are plenty of folks that will tell you that I've been overly critical of the pitching and up until the last few weeks I haven't wavered from that stance (I'm still skeptical) but credit where credit is due. They are pitching better and if Hook gets the blame early, he gets the credit late. You don't like Hook and that's fine but I see no indication that the Brewers are unhappy with him and I'd be willing to bet he is back next year......anecdotal evidence aside. Again let me be clear. The team has not pitched well this season as a whole. The starters have been bad and the bullpen has been bad. They have had trouble executing pitching 101 which is not giving good pitches to hit with 0-2 counts. We have seen it all season long. The young starters flamed out aside from Woodruff. The question is if the pitching coach is irrelevant and not responsible for the results that are significantly worse than last year then you can get anybody correct? Still no need to keep Hook since he has nothing to do success or fail? I'm not buying it. The results speak for themselves. The brewers are where they are despite the performance of the pitching staff. Sure Hook can't throw the ball for them but he can say hey guys when we have a guy in a 0-2 hole let's not throw a meatball over the plate. If they aren't listening to him then that's another issue. I don't hate the guy I just think a there's a chance that there is someone out there who may be better equipped to get this staff performing at a higher level. I get it he doesn't have the Astros pitching staff but there is very little evidence outside of the Lyles transformation that he has done a good job. That's all I'm saying.

He deserves credit for not letting things completely go down the drain I give you that but this is where we as fans can't be swayed by mediocrity. If you think this team can and should pitch better than you should be open to making a change. I am.

If pitching coach doesn't matter then just do without one by your line of thinking. Come on man unless I'm talking to Mrs Hook nobody thinks the guy has done a good job. It's a dumb thing to argue. Like I said you want him back God Bless. I don't.

Do you have any statistical evidence that this is accurate and/or that it happens more than league average or is this just your opinion? Watch the games bro. If you think Hook needs to stay which is what you said we disagree. We shall see what happens. I say he's gone.

Your comment was literally that the gopher ball Hader served up was the fault of Chris Hook. That is incorrect. The pitching staff isn't good because it isn't good. Not because Chris Hook makes a significant difference one way or the other. You can change the goal posts all you want. This team throws too many hittable 0-2 pitches. It also walks the first batter coming out of the pen just like Black did today. I don't know why or whose fault it is but both need to get cleaned up this last two weeks.