monty57

Maybe my bias comes from the Brewers' history of finding good, cheap bats, but not being able to find good pitching, even when they pay a premium for it. If the price is the same, I'd personally rather have an average person playing 2B to go along with Gamel, Braun, McGehee, Hart, etc. than having three average pitchers following up two studs. Not to hijack the thread, but the easy solution would've been to have traded Hart instead of extending him. Really, it's Hart's salary that will probably not allow for us to extend one of Weeks, Marcum or Greinke.

Looking at Brewerfan's player salary page, in 2013, Braun, Yo & Hart will take up 26.25MM and Wolf's option would be $10MM (probably will be bought out, but who knows). McGehee and Narveson will be in year 2 arby, and we'd have a bullpen, Gamel and Lucroy in pre-arby. Judging from that, could we afford Greinke, Marcum and Weeks at around $40MM/year or so and still be able to field a full team? That would be around $66MM paid to six players, and possibly $76MM if we still need to hold onto Wolf. McGehee would push us close to the $70 (or $80 with Wolf) level. If Gamel pans out, one of our young CF's takes over the MLB job and the young SPs take over the #4/5 spots, then it is possible that we could afford to extend all three of Greinke, Marcum and Weeks. We would just really need a large group of pre-arby guys to continue to produce at a high level, including probably having to find a pre-arby SS somewhere. Without a strong farm system, that won't be easy. Hart's departure in 2014 would free up another $10MM as players like Gamel and some of the 'pen hit arby. I don't know if it's possible to extend all three. I'll certainly be thrilled if it happens, as Melvin and Mark A know a lot more about the team's finances than I.

I remember the days when the Brewers put this type of lineup out there on a daily basis. It wasn't a lot of fun to watch as a fan. At what point did they have a top of the rotation that matched Greinke, Marcum & Yo? I think the Brewers have the ability to sign Marcum, Greinke, AND Weeks to LT contracts. If they can indeed afford to extend all three, then I'd be really happy. I'm not sure what you're basing the above quoted statement on, as there is a good chance that they can't afford three additional $10MM+ contracts on the books (Braun & Yo will be over $10MM in 2014, and Hart will be at $10MM in 2013). If Weeks demands a $10MM+/year contract, and we can only afford two of Weeks/Marcum/Greinke, then I think Weeks should be the one we let walk. If your going to go in, go all in. Don't try to patch holes with journeymen type utility players. That seldom works In that case, let's re-sign Prince. Plus, Jimmy Rollins & Jose Reyes are available at SS, Carlos Beltran will be available at CF and Mark Buehrle would make a tramendous #5 starter. I don't want to come off as a jerk, but I'm just trying to point out that we do have to worry about player salary. Because of this, we will occasionally have to make tough decisions on popular players. I certainly don't want to go back to the days where we have one decent player and a bunch of scrubs around him, but I think a core of Braun, Yo, Marcum, Greinke, Lucroy, Gamel, McGehee, etc is far, far better then we had through the 90's. I will say that if Corey Hart deserves $10MM in a season, then Weeks probably deserves it as well. However, he has to be compared with other 2B. Crewcrazy's statement "Highest annual value ever for a second baseman" should say something. Should Weeks be paid as the best 2B to ever play the game?

I'm going off memory here, but I think the only other 2B in history to average over $10MM/season is Chase Utley. I'm surprised that Uggla got as much as he did, and I think it limits out ability to extend Weeks. If we're going to pay that much money, I'd much rather extend Marcum and Greinke (assuming they'd be willing to extend for a market-value contract) and let Weeks walk. It just isn't that costly to find a Graffanino-type player who won't be as good as a healthy Rickie, but will be a capable player and will only cost you a couple million dollars. When coupled with the Fielder money coming off the books, the additional $8MM or so we'd save each year should let us keep the Greinke/Marcum/Yo trio together for quite a few years.

How does Cruz' skill set match our needs? RH bat who plays very good defense. To the point of the thread, it would be nice to have another RH bat on the bench. Additionally, we look to have one of the worst defensive teams ever compiled at the MLB level. Plus, I believe we'll lose Cruz if he doesn't make the team, leaving us in a really bad situation if Betancourt gets hurt. Don't get me wrong, Gamel is a better player than Cruz, but we've already wasted one year of his service time with little to show for it. I'd hate to waste another year of service time so we have another lefty on the bench who may or may not hit better than Dickerson would if given the same 100-200 PAs. If I had to bet, I'd say the bench will be Counsell, Boggs, Dickerson, Gamel and the backup catcher (probably Nieves). I would just prefer Counsell, Boggs, Dickerson, Cruz and backup catcher (probably Kottaras), with Gamel playing a mix of 1B, 3B, corner OF everyday in AAA, coming up if someone gets hurt and to be the DH when needed. In 2012, Gamel then steps in to be our everyday 1B or 3B for the next five seasons instead of the next four.

Invader, McCalvy has an article up on milwaukeebrewers.com with a quote from Melvin that his first comment to Greinke was something to the effect of "I feel like we just got another CC Sabathia, but instead of a few months, we have him for two years or even longer." Melvin is definitely at least looking into a Greinke extension. It might not bear fruit, but it is being explored.

One thing this offseason taught me is that there are far too many variables flying around to have any reasonable clue as to where the team will be in two years. I went into this offseason figuring Fielder would be gone, this year's team would be so-so, with hopes of the playoffs in a year or two. I was upset that Fielder wasn't traded last season, because I couldn't really see a way that we'd get a good enough pitching staff to compete this year. Now we have people talking about the Brewers in the World Series in 2011. Using the economic principal of ceteris paribus (all else remaining equal), then yes, we will likely have two good years and then a down period. If I had to bet, all else will not remain equal and we are not going to field a team of AAAA players in 2013 waiting for some draft picks to develop... that's just not the Melvin/Attanasio m.o.

I agree with Briggs that Boggs will likely be the primary RH bat off the bench. The lefty-heavy bench is why I think we may keep Cruz up rather than Gamel. Cruz's skillset probably matches our needs more than having another LH bat on the bench. Of course, Melvin has a knack for finding seemingly over the hill OFs who revive their career for a season off the Brewers' bench. If there's a RH candidate out there, Melvin's probably looking at him.

I think it's important to look at the Brewers' system as a whole, and not act as if the majors and minors aren't part of the same system. When we had a top-ranked minor league system, we had a lot of holes to fill on the MLB roster. Those holes have been filled when our top-ranked minor leaguers became everyday (in many cases All Star) Major Leaguers, and now we have a playoff-caliber major league team comprised of a lot of young players, many of whom are "Brewers property" for a number of years. The ultimate goal of the minor leagues is to help the major league team win. Melvin used his big chips pick up a couple of elite young pitchers this season. Now, for the future, we need to extend at least two of Weeks, Marcum and Greinke. Let's assume we extend Weeks and one of the pitchers. We will then not need a C (Lucroy), 1B/3B (Gamel/McGehee), LF (Braun), RF (Hart) 2B (Weeks) for the foreseeable future. We do have CFs on the roster to bridge the gap to whichever of the minor leaguers becomes major-league ready first. That leaves our biggest need for upgrade at SS, where there will be a plethora of available FA talent next off-season. We have a lot of young bullpen arms both on the MLB roster, and at the AAA level. We would also have two top-of-the-rotation starters locked up for a number of years, with a lot of good-but-not-great talent coming up through the minors to fill in around them. Of course I'd like to have more talent at the MiLb level, but I'd much rather have a lot of young, team-controlled talent at the MLB level and simply have to fill in the few holes that open up on the MLB roster over the next few years. The extra picks we'll have should bolster the minors so that we will have impact players stepping in when we need them in a few years.

I thought Jimmy Rollins was a FA after the season as well. Not that the Phillies will be out of contention.

I agree with kramnoj & Briggs. We are finally to the point that our minor league pithcers are nearing "major league ready" status, and I'd rather have them in AAA as starters ready to step in when needed. I hated the methodology of last season, when we stockpiled bad starters in the bullpen as "insurance." All it insured was that we had a bad bullpen. When we have a two-inning start at the major league level, someone like Loe or Parra will be fine to step in for multiple innings, as the two inning start likely means we're pretty much out of that game anyways. Because we'll have some relievers with options this season, we can always swap in a fresh arm like Kintzler or McClendon if the bullpen gets overworked by a short start. If there is a need for a spot start, it really won't matter if it's Rogers, Rivas, Peralta or whomever. It's one start, so any of them could be lights out or terrible. If we need someone to step in for a few weeks, the Brewers should be able to work the rotation to make sure they bring up the guy they want from AAA. It's not going to hurt Greinke, Marcum, Yo or Wolf if they have to pitch once on three days rest mid-season. Best wishes to Cappy. It was fun watching him when he was one of the few Brewers pitchers worth watching, and it's been a tremendous comeback story. While I doubt a contender will give him a rotation spot, I hope he can find a job with someone like Washington / KC / Pittsburgh and prove that he is capable of holding down a rotation spot.

Since we've finally got a rotation that ought to be able to go deep into games, I don't see us keeping a 13-man staff. If you take Capuano out of the roster above, we have our 2011 pitching staff, plus it will allow us to cycle the McClendon/Kintzler... line between the MLB staff to the AAA staff, making sure there are always fresh arms in the bullpen. I like Capuano, and wanted to see him re-signed, but I'd bet some team is going to offer him a guaranteed rotation spot, which Milwaukee isn't ready to do. Now we're starting to get an awful lot of pitchers for the few remaining spots, and I don't want to get in the situation we were in last year where we didn't have any players with options, so we couldn't bring up the live arms in Nashville until we got some injuries and cut some players. To the point of the thread, it's good to see that Melvin is seizing the opportunity to upgrade the team, even if it's in an area none of us assumed would be upgraded. We should have a pretty good all-around pitching staff this season. Pluse, as someone mentioned earlier, this signing will allow us to use guys like Kintzler in lower pressure situations.

Maybe the affinity for Brady Clark is due to the dislike of Gomez by so many. Actually, if you were somehow able to merge Clark's positives with Gomez's positives, you'd have a really good player.

I don't think we're doomed to be that bad after a couple of years. I think what people mean is that, for the next two years the Brewers may have the best concentration of talent that they ever have. The team may never have this much pure talent again. That's two years to be a potential 90-win team and the two years in which this team will most likely ever win a world series. After that, some rebuilding will have to happen. I don't think we'd suddenly go back to being as bad as the Brewers of the early 2000's, but it's likely we're looking at a few years of 80 or so losses. Agreed, but I think everyone's purely speculating until we see what magic Melvin can drum up with player extensions (Weeks, Marcum, Greinke) and until we see how well Gamel (or a FA pickup) can replace Fielder's production at 1B in 2012.

Since the only other potential RH hitters on our bench at this point would be Cruz and Nieves, I think Boggs will be expected to be our primary RH pinch hitter, and will probably split the few off days Hart & Braun take with Dickerson. Plus, with Gomez as the probable starting CF, I'm glad to have two other people on the roster who can play that position. It gives us some options if Gomez still refuses to change his approach at the plate. Let's also consider the possibility that Melvin in his search for pitching is getting a lot of inquiries on Cain. Cain may be the best chip he has. If that's the case, he would want to fortify the OF. Good call Briggs

I think the big point about McGehee/Gamel that needs to take priority is that we will probably need both of them in 2012... one at 1B and one at 3B. I think the best thing would be for Gamel to play everyday in AAA this season unless called up as an injury replacement. However, I could see the Brewers, in full "go for it" mode putting Gamel on the bench as a LH pinch hitter who would get occasional starts at 3B/corner OF. I think playing everyday is good for anyone's development, but at this stage of his career I have no idea how he would handle a year of sporadic play. Since they already have Dickerson, Boggs, Counsell and potentially Kottaras on the bench, I don't really see a need for Gamel to sit there as well. This is really the situation they found themselves in last year, with Prince the only regular LH bat, and a bench with no RH hitters. I'd personally prefer Cruz as a late-inning defensive replacement with the switch-hitting Boggs as the primary RH pinch hitter. Dickerson and Counsell can be the LH pinch-hitter, depending on the situation. To the point of this thread, I think Counsell and Dickerson/Boggs will get enough starts that the absence of another "everyday" LH bat in the lineup won't be significant. It's just up to the new skipper to manage his personnel in a way that everyone can stay "fresh" and ready to play.

The X-factor here is who we will be able to extend this offseason. If we go into next year with Weeks and Fielder gone and one year left of Greinke, Marcum and Wolf, then we will really have a lot of work to do, and it might make more sense to trade one of the better pitchers (Greinke or Marcum) to bring back a lot of talent. If we are able to extend Weeks and one or both pitchers, than Wolf could very well be dealt. Don't forget, guys like Peralta could be MLB-ready by then as well. It will definitely be interesting to see how Melvin puts the puzzle together beyond this season. As far as Wolf's value, I think we'd be able to get a pretty good haul, assuming he pitches well this season. The price tag on secondary players seems to be coming up this offseason (Pavano will probably get over $10MM/year, and Wolf got a monster deal), and quality starting pitching will still likely be at a premium.

At any rate, if the team is competing and these positions are a problem, my guess is that Ray Durham type trades will be made with non-contenders in June or July to fortify things. Jimmy Rollins and Jose Reyes are FAs after the season. Kinda doubt the Phillies will be out of it, but maybe the Mets will be far enough back to deal Reyes. I can dream, can't I? I agree a mid-season trade may end up being our solution. Until then, I think Counsell will get a lot of starts at SS, and Dickerson will see a number of starts in CF (and any time needed in the corners). Whether or not they'll be straight platoons, who knows.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/112198079.html In this interview he just says they both live in Orlando and see each other a few times an offseason. Doubt they are neighbors.I read a Greinke quote where he said they lived about five minutes from each other. He also mentioned he occasionally sees Prince, who also lives in Orldano.

The 16 HR's last year were also about twice his previous season high. HR by year: 2005 - 1, 2006 - 8, 2007 - 9, 2008 - 7, 2009 - 6 I don't think we should assume he'll hit double digit HRs. His career numbers (OBP/SLG/OPS) are .296/.393/.689. He'll be 29 in January with five years of service time under his belt, so it's not like this is a small sample. Last year he was middle-of-the-pack offensively (12th of 22 qualifying OPS), but in 2009 he was dead last. Throw in that everything points to him being around the worst defensive SS in the league, and it seems that we could do better. I know that not every player on the Brewers' roster can be above-average-to-good at everything, but if you are going to be below average at something, you need to be above average at something else. Other than an outlier year of 16 HR, Betancourt appears to be at best average offensively to go along with very bad defense. Maybe I (and others) are being a bit over the top about how bad he'll be, but he certainly looks to be the worst all around player on the projected 25-man roster at this point. If a better option can't be added, then I hope Counsell sees a lot of playing time at SS (and his body holds up) and I hope we have a decent SS at AAA who can come up if Betancourt is indeed as bad as some are projecting, and he is jettisoned mid-season.

Extend Marcum and show Greinke that we are serious about this team for longer than 2011. Good point. Geinke noted that the fact that we didn't trade Fielder, and instead signed Marcum is the reason he waived the no trade clause and Milwaukee became one of the three teams he wanted to go to. We aren't going to be able to extend Fielder, so we should get Rickie and Marcum done, and that should show Greinke that we're serious about winning for the long term. I don't know if it's possible, but I'd be pretty excited if we could have Greinke, Marcum, Yo, Weeks, Braun, Hart, Lucroy, McGehee, Gamel and our bullpen in place for the next 3-4 years, plus pitching on the way in the minors. Until that happens, I'll savor the moment we're currently in, with one of the top offenses and one of the top pitching staffs in the National League.

...but sometimes even good teams can live with below average players. I agree, but it would be nice if he were decent at something. I'd much prefer a good defense, no hit SS to him. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd prefer Cruz to be our everyday SS... at least he could help our team in one aspect of the game.

TLB, I wouldn't read too much into that. If I was the Brewers manager, and was just handed a lump of coal to play SS, I'd try to spin it as best I could. I don't think he'd do any good if he'd have said "I'm really happy to have the pitching additions, but I got to see a lot of Betancourt in the AL West and he's possibly the worst SS I've ever seen. It'll be really hard pencilling in his name everyday." I've complained about Macha for a long time. I'm ready to give the new guy a break. Hopefully he'll be someone Brewer fans can actually like.

I've seen "Hart to CF" being suggested a lot lately and I don't like it. We're going to be pretty poor defensively even with a real CF. Hart is not a good defensive OF, but is at least capable of playing RF... he'd be terrible in center. Plus, Gamel hasn't spent much time in the OF, so he isn't going to be very good out there. Throw in Betancourt replacing Escobar, and our big additions on the mound will be offset by our league-worst defense. I'd say the depth chart at CF now reads Gomez, Dickerson, Boggs, Hart in that order. If Gamel does make the big league roster this season, I hope he gets a lot of ABs, but not if it means an OF of Braun, Hart, Gamel.

That's why extending Weeks, Greinke and Marcum should be immediate priorities. I may be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if Weeks and at least one of Marcum and Greinke aren't extended this offseason. If this is done, we will have most of our team locked up for quite a while. We'll take some kind of hit when Gamel takes over Fielder's spot, but not enough to derail the offense. We will also have our minor league pitchers develop, and could be in a position in a year or two where we have more than five MLB-ready starting pitchers, at which point we will be able to trade away a good SP and bring in a good haul to fill in holes elsewhere or re-stock the system with good young talent. For example, Rogers should take over for Narveson sometime this season, and someone like Peralta should take over Wolf's spot, possibly allowing us to trade him after this season. What we're really missing now in the minors are near-MLB-ready bats, which we don't need, as (assuming a Weeks extension) most of the positions are covered for a few years at the MLB level. We will need to address SS and CF, but those aren't generally really expensive positions to upgrade, and if Logan Schafer can stay healthy, he could be our CF in the not-too-distant future. Bottom line: A lot can happen in 2-4 years, and while it's fun to guess it is impossible to know how things will pan out.