monty57

Couldn't Counsell, Cruz and Gamel all make it, if you consider Gamel the 5th OF? Possibly. I'd guess Boggs & Dickerson are the backup OF. With Counsell and the backup catcher, that would leave one open spot. Cruz and Gamel seem to be the top choices for that spot as the roster currently sits. Of course, we could always add another player, or we could dump Betancourt and platoon Counsell and Cruz, which after looking at Betancourt's numbers is what I'd like to see happen.

I hadn't looked up Betancourt's stats until now. He's got a career .689 OPS!!! He added a little pop last year, hitting 16 HR, but that came at the expense of average & OBP. I thought he was a butcher in the field, but at least wouldn't be a black hole at the plate, but unfortunately I was wrong. I hope the Brewers are willing to eat the $3MM when a better option at SS comes around, which shouldn't be difficult to find.

I have to believe that Betancourt was a "negative value" part of the trade so that the Brewers wouldn't have to throw in another, better player. I'll try to keep reminding myself of that whenever Betancourt boots a play.

I was pretty surprise last night when I heard of this. My first reaction was surprise that they added Odorizzi to the package, but the more I think of it, the more I like it. Pretty much my reaction as well Several people mentioned how we must be "going for it now", which is completely correct. But I think the Brewers have to do it that way. If they had a system that was pumping out stud prospects every year or three, it would be different. We all know how Weeks, Fielder and Braun (and Hart just ahead of them) all came up, but there was no pitching. Similarly, we were looking at an issue with some decent pitchers coming in the next 2-3 years, but we would have lost Fielder by then and no stud hitting prospects. So why not trade some of the future to lump our prospects into one decent chance this year? As opposed to just poking our noses above .500 every year? If we can extend Weeks and either (or both) of Marcum and Greinke, which seems fairly likely, then we should be good for at least the next 3-4 seasons. While I understand the "going for it now" comment, I think Melvin's really "going for it" for the next few years, and by that time anything can happen, and some of the guys in the lower minors will be ready. If Weeks gets extended, Lawrie really didn't have a spot on our MLB roster, and as I said above, none of the guys we traded for Greinke are irreplaceable, so I agree with you that this makes much more sense than sitting around .500 for the next few years waiting for prospects to come around. Anyone think this might make Fielder more interested in staying? No. He's going to go for the biggest contract he can get, for which I can't fault him. If he has another season like 2010, I doubt he'll get the contract he thinks he will, which may allow for the Brewers to be in the discussion with him as a free agent. That said, I'd personally rather extend Weeks and use the money that would go to Fielder to try to extend Marcum and/or Greinke. Gamel/McGehee can take over 1B, and we'll still be a playoff caliber team for several more years. Since we just traded our best SP prospect, if we extend Prince and let Marcum & Greinke walk after 2012, we'll be back to where we just came from in a couple seasons.

So basically, he gets bad reads, has no speed to make up for this, bobbles the balls that he can get to, and when he finally throws the ball to first, his feet get twisted up and even though the ball is thrown hard, it's not really likely to be thrown anywhere near the first baseman. Sound about right?

That picture finally illustrates why Counsell gave up that goofy stance :-)

I agree with the fangraphs author. I like Cain, and he was certainly a breath of fresh air after watching Gomez flail away all season, but I think many on this board are a little too enamored by him. His .300+ average in a short MLB stint is why Melvin was able to make him the centerpiece of this deal, but I have doubts that he will be a .300+ hitter for his career. I see him more as a .280 avg / .330 OBP hitter with limited power and around average MLB CF defense. At this point, Jeffress would probably need a season in the minors to become a SP again. The Royals could (and in my opinion should) put him in AAA in 2011 to become a starter, but I doubt they will, so if he's stuck being a late-inning reliever, I don't mind losing him too much. Escobar will probably turn into a good player, but he was bad last year, with his mid-.600's OPS and less-than-stellar defense. Again this is only my opinion, but Odorizzi is easily the hardest nugget to lose. He should turn into a good pitcher, but a lot can happen on his road to the bigs. Overall, a very good deal by Melvin. As negative as the paragraph above was, I do hope for the best for all of the players involved. I've followed them for a while now, and I hope they blossom. I just have doubts that any other than Odorizzi will match the expectations we were led to believe they were /are capable of.

With Prince leaving after this year, it makes sense to hold onto both McGehee and Gamel. The question in my mind is whether Gamel spends the season in AAA as 3B/1B/corner OF, or it the Brewers use him as a bench bat on the MLB roster in their effort to "go for it" in 2011. For the long-term benefit of the franchise, it makes sense to stick him in AAA, but he would be a good LH bat off the bench in a playoff run this season. I guess this will probably be determined by how much money Melvin has left available to add a power bat for the bench.

I thought that when I wrote it, but still stuck to my terminology :-) I may be in the minority, but I see Wolf as a good #3. He's not a "stud" par se, but I'll bet he'll be one of the top #4 starters in all of baseball, and will probably be better than a lot of teams' #2 guy.

Maybe not the place for this, but our new SPs may finally get us to go with a 12-man pitching staff so we can have a full 5-man bench. Do we spend two spots on Counsell and Cruz as defensive replacements for Betancourt?

It'd be hard not to start our shiny, new Cy Young winner on Opening Day. I'd also guess that Roeneke will split up the lefties, putting Wolf at #3. Even though it may make sense to split up the "power pitchers," putting Marcum after Greinke, there's no way Yo is going to be #4, so my guess would be: Greinke, Yo, Wolf, Marcum, Narveson Of course, they could skip Narveson early in the season, in which case, Wolf would be starting the Home Opener as our #4. That does bring up a question... with four studs in the rotation, are we going to skip Narveson as often as possible to get the most starts out of Greinke, Yo, Marcum & Wolf?

Not surprising, but I'm glad it's done. His versatility and plate discipline make him an important part of our bench. Of course, if we don't add another SS, Craig could see a lot of starts in 2011... I hope his 40-year-old body can hold up.

While I agree in concept that Gomez has been given a lot more chances than he probably has merited, a pro football QB has a big playbook to memorize. Not really comparable to a baseball player. Not to be a Gomez apologist, but he was brought up sooner than he should have been. This didn't allow him to get the "seasoning' he should have received in the minors. Purely opinion, but I think this also led to a sense of entitlement in Carlos, which to me is why he hasn't listened to the numerous coaches who have told him to be more patient at the plate. Since he is probably the Brewers CF for at least 2011, I hope the benching last season got to him somewhat, and hopefully he will start to get a little more "heady" as a player. Somehow, I doubt it.

Holliday is one of the worst OF I have ever seen play. He is in league with Matt Stairs. To compare his defense with Braun is to do a tremendous disservice to Braun. If Berkman has lost as many steps as everyone believes, the Cards OF defense will be pretty bad this season.

I don't think there's any chance of extending Fielder, but I think there's a good chance of extending Weeks, Marcum, and possibly Greinke. That would give us a long window where we'd have a good shot at the NL Central crown.

I still can't wrap my head around how good our rotation looks this season. We now have a true Ace, two probable #1 starters, and a low2/high 3 starter. Narveson will probably hold the #5 until the Brewers feel that Rogers is ready, when our rotation will take another bump up... wow!! If we can extend Weeks and either one or both of Marcum/Greinke, we will be really good for quite a few years. As for what we gave up, it was a lot, but not irreplaceable. I never saw Cain as a star, and I'd guess most of our goodwill towards him was due to the good head on his shoulders in comparison to the blank void between Gomez's ears. I think Melvin sold high on Cain after his .300+ average made him look really good. I'd guess he'll be a good-but-not-great CF for a number of years. While I don't look forward to seeing Gomez in CF everyday, trading Cain was logical, as we do have multiple MLB-ready CF options on the team. At least Gomez plays good defense, which will make our rotation even better. Escobar was an eingma. We have been told how great he will be, but he did disappoint last season, when he hit like Jason Kendall and didn't provide the defense we were told to expect. I do still believe he will be a good player, and hopefully Melvin has a long-term plan to replace him. I'd guess this guarantees that Counsell will be back, getting semi-regular time at SS. It was beginning to appear that Jeffress was going to remain in the bullpen, which made me sick. If he was starting, his inclusion in this trade would be harder to stomach. If his future is in the bullpen, I'm not nearly as worried about losing him. Whatever happens, I truly hope that he can keep his personal life in order. I'd hate to see someone with so much talent waste it. The gem of this trade for KC will probably be Odorizzi. Prospects are always a crapshoot, and anything could happen, but the Royals probably got a future top-of-the-rotation starter in Jake. Extending Marcum and/or Greinke will make this less painful for the Brewers, as they would have the MLB rotation in good shape for a while. If they can't extend Marcum or Greinke, Jake will be missed. All that said, I am really excited about the upcoming season. We should still have one of the top offenses in the league to go along with a top rotation and a good, young bullpen. There's a whole lot to like about the makeup of our team.

This definitely should make us the favorite for the Central, and I am excited about the news, but as MillerParkSouth said, this is an expensive bill.

As Endaround said, our farm (particularly position-wise) is getting thin. What I like about the possibility of adding a Garza or Shields is that we will have most of our team locked up for the foreseeable future, so we won't have as big a need for MLB-ready prospects for a couple years. We're apparently discussing extensions with Marcum and Weeks, so if we add a Garza or Shields, we would essentially have every position on the field except 1B locked up for at least three years. As our minor league pitchers get MLB-ready, it should be easy to trade a Marcum, Yo, Garza, Wolf, etc to add more position players if needed. The big question Endaround posed is whether we could land a Garza or Shields without including players that are big parts of our future, thereby creating a hole somewhere in the roster. We have Gamel, who will be without a role in 2011, but is the logical choice to take over for Prince when he leaves. We have a plethora of CFs, which is why Cain's name is being thrown around. Gomez may not be good, but he is young and under team control, so he is a ready-made replacement if Cain were traded. We also have a lot of young, talented bullpen arms, potentially making someone like Axford expendable. However, we've been throwing away money in the 'pen for years, and it's nice to finally have a cheap, talented 'pen, so we have money to put elsewhere. Finally, we do have talented young arms in the minors who could be used. If we indeed could lock up Yo, Marcum and Garza/Shields for the next 3-4 years along with Wolf for the next 2, we could spare some young arms. I hope Melvin is able to put together a deal that will allow us to land a Garza or Shields without creating a hole elsewhere. I think this move could set us up to be a serious contender for the NL Central for at least the next 3-4 years.

Garza/Shields, Yo, Marcum, Wolf, Blanton... Yeah, I think I'd take that rotation.

I'd guess the Brewers could either pick up most/all of the salary and basically get Blanton for nothing, or they could trade a prospect and have the Phillies eat some/most of the salary (how much they'd pick up being determined by the ability of the prospect). Of course I'd rather have Garza or Shields (I don't think Grienke is even an option anymore), but Blanton would definitely be a solid option if the Rays are asking too much in return. Getting a good pitcher in a salary dump trade could be a decent way to fill out the rotation. I guess one way to look at it would be: Would you rather have Yo, Marcum, Garza, Wolf, Narveson, but not have Axford or Gamel, or have Yo, Marcum, Wolf, Blanton, Narveson while retaining Axford and Gamel? (stealing that possibility from And That's "would you trade Axford" thread).

Agreed. One of the biggest problems last year was that we had a bunch of gimp SPs taking up roster spaces in the bullpen because they couldn't be sent down to the minors. We finally started playing better once we jettisoned some of the waste, opened up roster spots for guys like Axford, and permanently moved Narveson to the rotation. I like having SP depth, but I much prefer it to be starting every five days in Nashville.

Meche got his deal after the 2006 season. CC got his deal after the 2008 season. Meche was another age and CC was recently? Yeah, there was a little slowdown in the economy that started around Sept/Oct 2007.

Maybe this is a bit off topic, but a big thing I like about the current makeup of the Brewers is that they have most of their MLB team locked up at reasonable rates for quite a while. By adding Marcum and potentially extending him out a couple of seasons, we will have another spot filled with a talented player for the next 3-4 seasons. If we can find one more SP this offseason and extend Weeks, the only other hole we should need to fill for the next few years will be Prince Fielder, who may be replaced in-house with Gamel.

Wells & Meche got their contracts in another day & age, when huge money contracts were flowing like water. Recently, only the CC Sabathia's of the world have been getting huge contracts. That is now about to change.

I'd guess the Brewers are shooting for a 3-4 year deal with team option. That would add cost certainty through the final two arby years and buy out a couple of FA years. I don't want them to go beyond that, as four years would get him through age 32. Option...fine, guaranteed 5th year... no thanks.