Brewcrew82

I saw a report today (not sure how true) that the Woodruff is the pitcher teams think may be dealt and that the Brewers intend on keeping Burnes at this time and negotiating an extension with him. It's interesting, because, financial considerations aside, Burnes, at 28, is the one you'd ideally sign-long term, while Woodruff, who will turn 30 by spring training, is the one you'd prefer to trade. So, IF TRUE, maybe they anticipate something closer to what you're saying, i.e. a DeGrom-type extension at 5 years, $130 million+, which would allow him to reenter free agency and sign a second big-money deal at 33. That is not out of the Brewers' range.... Also, I would point to the extension Jose Ramirez signed with Cleveland just before the season. Different positions and ages, yes, but Ramirez was looking at a huge deal in free agency and instead re-upped one year-out with the only club he has ever known for 5 years, $124 million. It is entirely possible that Burnes could decide to do something similar.

Yeah, there is a scenario (unlikely) where they include Rodriguez, but Henderson, like Rutschman, is off-limits. He's the top prospect in baseball right now.

Yeah, there is a scenario (unlikely) where they include Rodriguez, but Henderson, like Rutschman, is off-limits. He's the top prospect in baseball right now.

My preference is as follows (for the deals I listed): 1. Orioles (w/ Rodriguez) 2. Blue Jays (w/ Moreno and Tiedemann) 3. Orioles (w/ Holliday) 4. Dodgers (w/ Vargas, Miller, and Pepiot) 5. Blue Jays (w/ Kirk and Tiedemann) 6. Dodgers (w/ Cartaya and Stone) 7. Rangers (w/ Jung, White, and Porter) 8. Mets (w/ Baty and Parada) #1 is easy to me as, barring further health problems, Rodriguez is as close to a lock as a prospect can be to becoming one of the top aces in baseball. Basically, another Burnes, but for 6 seasons (and potentially more) during the height of the Chourio/Frelick era. Obviously, there are huge questions about whether Baltimore would actually include him, but if they did, it's a pretty easy choice along with a potential 3rd baseman of the future in Westburg. #2 gives you the best combination of two talents, with Moreno ready to help the team contend right now and Tiedemann looking like a potential top pitching prospect in all of baseball. However, the inclusion of Moreno instead of Kirk would probably require the Brewers to part with Mitchell (maybe Ruiz?) value-wise, as the Jays need a CF to take the load off of Springer. #3 would be absolutely huge for the franchise as it would give you a cornerstone infielder to pair with Chourio in the OF. Those two talents together is the stuff that World Series dreams are made of. And I think it's probably the most realistic deal compared to the above two. The only reason why it's not #1 or #2 for me is because of Hall, who I'm less than enamored with. But he's the only other high-level pitching prospect for the O's, and we absolutely need to get that kind of talent back for Burnes. #4 is my preferred deal with LA as I absolutely love the offensive profile of Vargas, and he can be rotated between 3B and 1B, two key question marks on our roster right now. Tellez would then be able to spend more time at DH, where he can recoup a lot of the value he loses due to his defense. Miller obviously has a huge ceiling, while Pepiot has that elite fastball-changeup combo. #5 is a great deal, too. Kirk is an all-star catcher who helps the transition to a more contact-oriented offense, despite only being under control for 4 years. And obviously, Tiedemann, as I discussed, may have the most helium of any pitching prospect in the minors right now. #6 is very good, but Cartaya, unlike Moreno or Kirk, won't be ready for a little while. Though, I might like Stone more than I like Miller. Maybe not quite as high of an upside, but more of a certainty imo. #7 is where my excitement really starts to dampen. Jung is a great prospect and obviously we could really use a third baseman right now, but his performance this year in the minors and in the majors was a bit of a step down from last year, when he was looking like a guaranteed stud. Not quite as high on the Rangers' pitching prospects as the Dodgers' or Tiedemann, but White and Porter is still some great upside. #8 is really getting to the limit of what I'd accept for Burnes. I like Baty quite a bit more than I do Jung. And Parada has huge potential with the bat. But the pitching options are a clear step down from all of the other teams.

Right, which is why I'm acknowledging that a deal isn't likely from the start. But at least show the fans you genuinely tried, as opposed to the current situation, which is that the team has yet to even approach him. Who knows, you might even get lucky like Cleveland did with Ramirez.

Right, which is why I'm acknowledging that a deal isn't likely from the start. But at least show the fans you genuinely tried, as opposed to the current situation, which is that the team has yet to even approach him. Who knows, you might even get lucky like Cleveland did with Ramirez.

At minimum, I would like to see the Brewers make a genuine effort before actually going ahead and trading him. That deal would qualify as that.

At minimum, I would like to see the Brewers make a genuine effort before actually going ahead and trading him. That deal would qualify as that.

Yeah, you can fill in the gaps with flyers, if need be. But these are the basic trade structures that I'd have to see at minimum if I was Arnold.

If the Brewers gave him Yelich's deal (maybe a year or two less), I think he'd actually accept it. as he genuinely seems to enjoy playing here. I'd be fine offering it, too, as I think Burnes is that special of a talent. But it's not my money or risk....

If the Brewers gave him Yelich's deal (maybe a year or two less), I think he'd actually accept it. as he genuinely seems to enjoy playing here. I'd be fine offering it, too, as I think Burnes is that special of a talent. But it's not my money or risk....

In light of some troubling suggestions in today's Burnes article, here are the potential package outlines that I believe would potentially make it worthwhile for the Brewers to part with him this offseason:

This is so the wrong perspective and a potentially lethal one to this franchise were Arnold and Attanasio to adopt it. Accept a "light" return for Burnes, the best statistical pitcher in baseball over the past three years with two whole seasons of control, because MAYBE they might be able to scrounge out a little more value than expected in a trade of Renfroe, Ruiz, Mitchell, etc.??? Though I like Ruiz and, especially, Gasser, did we learn absolutely nothing from the Hader trade and this year's deadline?? If the Brewers can't get a better deal than Mullins and some lesser prospects, then ride full-steam into next season with the best 1-2 rotation punch in baseball (assuming DeGrom does leave NY).

This is so the wrong perspective and a potentially lethal one to this franchise were Arnold and Attanasio to adopt it. Accept a "light" return for Burnes, the best statistical pitcher in baseball over the past three years with two whole seasons of control, because MAYBE they might be able to scrounge out a little more value than expected in a trade of Renfroe, Ruiz, Mitchell, etc.??? Though I like Ruiz and, especially, Gasser, did we learn absolutely nothing from the Hader trade and this year's deadline?? If the Brewers can't get a better deal than Mullins and some lesser prospects, then ride full-steam into next season with the best 1-2 rotation punch in baseball (assuming DeGrom does leave NY).

I am so excited to see Abner Uribe in spring training. He could really help return this bullpen to dominance post-Josh Hader.

This is an entirely different situation than in 2017-2018. That club was trying to transition to a contender and added Yelich and Cain to power that transition in light of a relative surplus of payroll space. This club, as presently constituted, is already a contender and is looking to continue its run of success in the long-term, yet also has to deal with a huge contingent of arbitration eligible players that is beginning to really push the envelope in terms of payroll. Mullins and Santander, while above average players, aren't needle movers contention-wise given that we would be parting with statistically the best pitcher in baseball to acquire them. And it's not like they would provide payroll relief either given that both are now arbitration eligible and will be getting more expensive by the year. Mullins, in particular, could be a real danger as he's going to get paid a lot due to his 2021 season, despite that season being a real statistical outlier relative to his career numbers and batted-ball metrics. I'm not even sure that Santander is a guaranteed upgrade over any of our current outfielders, given his atrocious defensive stats. You say that it comes down to making the "right decisions". Well, I can tell you right away that trading Burnes for a package headlined by/involving Mullins or Santander isn't the right decision and could really set this franchise back in the long-term. If we're going to trade an absolute premium of a talent such as Burnes with two whole years of control left, we're going to need to receive premium talent in return. So, start with Rodriguez or Holliday or proceed to hang up the phone as nobody else the Orioles could give us (other than Rutschman or Henderson) will make a trade of Burnes worth it imo.

This is an entirely different situation than in 2017-2018. That club was trying to transition to a contender and added Yelich and Cain to power that transition in light of a relative surplus of payroll space. This club, as presently constituted, is already a contender and is looking to continue its run of success in the long-term, yet also has to deal with a huge contingent of arbitration eligible players that is beginning to really push the envelope in terms of payroll. Mullins and Santander, while above average players, aren't needle movers contention-wise given that we would be parting with statistically the best pitcher in baseball to acquire them. And it's not like they would provide payroll relief either given that both are now arbitration eligible and will be getting more expensive by the year. Mullins, in particular, could be a real danger as he's going to get paid a lot due to his 2021 season, despite that season being a real statistical outlier relative to his career numbers and batted-ball metrics. I'm not even sure that Santander is a guaranteed upgrade over any of our current outfielders, given his atrocious defensive stats. You say that it comes down to making the "right decisions". Well, I can tell you right away that trading Burnes for a package headlined by/involving Mullins or Santander isn't the right decision and could really set this franchise back in the long-term. If we're going to trade an absolute premium of a talent such as Burnes with two whole years of control left, we're going to need to receive premium talent in return. So, start with Rodriguez or Holliday or proceed to hang up the phone as nobody else the Orioles could give us (other than Rutschman or Henderson) will make a trade of Burnes worth it imo.

Also, why on earth would the Brewers want Santander and/or Mullins? Like this team needs more outfielders, especially ones that are in their late 20s and are already arbitration-eligible.

Also, why on earth would the Brewers want Santander and/or Mullins? Like this team needs more outfielders, especially ones that are in their late 20s and are already arbitration-eligible.

If the Orioles do declare that Rodriguez and Holliday are off limits, then they’re not getting Burnes, a top 3 (if not THE) top pitcher in baseball. It’s as simple as that. I’m not trading Burnes just for the sake of trading him while he still has two years of control. He’s got a specific value, and a team is going to have to meet or exceed that value. Otherwise, let’s go run it back with perhaps the best 1-2 punch in baseball.

If the Orioles do declare that Rodriguez and Holliday are off limits, then they’re not getting Burnes, a top 3 (if not THE) top pitcher in baseball. It’s as simple as that. I’m not trading Burnes just for the sake of trading him while he still has two years of control. He’s got a specific value, and a team is going to have to meet or exceed that value. Otherwise, let’s go run it back with perhaps the best 1-2 punch in baseball.

Actually, McCormick saves the day.

Mancini saves the day. Wow.

Winner of this game will probably win the world series. So intense here in the 8th.