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Help me out here Patrick, the guy did that well, was an All-American, etc...why did he last as long as he did in the draft?

The twins have built almost entirely from within. At least they haven't made any major free agent signing, at least nothing major like signing Soriano. Santana, Liriano, Nathan and Bonser all came from outside the organization though, which was the point I was making, you can't just count on the guys you drafted to fill all the holes, sometimes getting guys in from other organizations is a must. The Twins wouldn't be much of a story without those arms. Clearly, getting multiple arms of this caliber is a rare occurance, but when the Twins moved Pierzynski for Liriano, Nathan and Bonser, they made the kind of move that will keep a small market team competitive despite losing some of its established players. They had gotten what they could get out of Pierzynski, they knew they had a young catcher on his way, so they moved for young arms....if Liriano stays healthy that's one of the most one-sided deals in recent memory. The Brewers have made lower profile moves of the same type, for the same reason. Having Weeks turned Spivey into Ohka, having Fielder turned Overbay into three players. I wish we were in a position to do that again this winter, another deal for two talented young arms would make me very happy....somehow I don't see Jenkins, Mench or Koskie bringing that back here.

I doubt the Mets will pin this on Heilman, everyone can see starting pitching is a glaring hole for them right now, they won't jettison the bullpen on that logic. If the Mets weren't in a money machine I think a deal for Davis might appeal to them, as it is, I expect them to land either Zito or Schmidt, or maybe they'll sign the guy who handcuffed them last night.

Looking at those studies Russ provided, Pierre appeals to me a lot more than he did before...just don't let him attempt as many steals. I think if his steal attempts were dictated to him, he could be an excellent addition. I still don't like his arm, or the dollars likely involved, but I never liked Carlos Lee's arm at all either and I can acknowledge the benefits of having him in the lineup.

I completely agree with what Patrick is saying, nobody builds a ballclub entirely from within, the odds against that paying off are enormous. The point is to accumulate as much talent as possible, then use that talent to fill the holes you have at the big league level. If that means you develop a catcher, great, but it may also mean dealing a top prospect at another position for another team's AAA catcher, etc. Guessing on young arms must keep GMs up at night. Nothing is more important than pitching, but young pitchers are the toughest thing to predict. I'd ask for quite a bit to get Gallardo out of here right now, and I would be cautious about dealing Inman, Jackson, etc...but if a deal is there that clearly upgrades the team, you can't just say no. The player Houston insisted on to get Don Sutton to Milwaukee was Mike Madden. Madden won 12 big league games and was done at age 28. The guy the Twins had to get to move Frank Viola to the Mets was David West...he never became what they thought he would....but oh yeah, they got Rick Augilera and Kevin Tapani in that move too. The A's would gladly take Bonderman back from the Tigers, the Mets would surely take Kazmir back from the DRays, but I'm sure Pittsburgh wishes they had moved Kris Benson when he was a future Cy Young candidate, ditto the Royals with Greinke.

I'm open to the possibility of Pierre because I would like more speed than the team currently has, and because I'm not particularly sold on any of the current CF options the team has. When I say that, it's not so much about stolen bases as it is the ability to take an extra base, I like having more guys you can send home on a ball hit in the gap, etc. The two downsides to me are, I'm sure Pierre will be overpaid for what he brings to the table, and I don't like the weak throwing arm. I'm interested, but not highly so.

My intent wasn't to knock Davis, rather to promote the addition of Maddux. If I could have either man for next season, I would choose Maddux. I'd welcome both in the rotation for sure, I would also like to have the flexibility to deal a starting pitcher if a great offer came along, which it just might.

I've looked into this a little more....if Maddux wants to pitch another season, this is a move I want to see. Currently we have a great deal of debate here over what to do with Doug Davis, he's been dependable, he's not yet eligible for free agency, but he wants a nice new deal of course, and he could indeed be an attractive trading chip in this pitching starved market. I looked at Davis' stats over the past three seasons, and compared them to Maddux' last three. If the price on a one-year deal is even close, I prefer to sign Maddux, then either sign Davis to a one-year deal, or move him in a deal for bullpen help, or perhaps a young catcher or outfielder. Over the last three years, it looks like this... W GS IP ERA WHIP 15 34 215 4.15 1.20 Maddux 11 34 211 4.03 1.37 Davis Those are the seasonal average over the last three years. I'm willing to throw out wins for the most part, because I view that as more of a team stat, but otherwise, both players will take the ball when their turn comes up, and they will put up about the same number of IP. The key point here for me is, Davis has somehow managed to allow fewer ER, while having a considerably higher WHIP...he's been allowing a lot more baserunners, while somehow managing to allow fewer of them to score. That's a tough thing to do consistently, to me, a one-year deal for Maddux seems a much safer bet than a 3-year deal for Davis. I'll take Maddux and Davis in the rotation, with the young pitchers starting in AAA, or perhaps one of them as a long reliever in Milwaukee, pitching depth is a good thing. I'll also take Maddux in Davis' place in the rotation, with Davis moved in a deal that helps the club elsewhere.

Obviously I wouldn't have details on this, but I have read more than once that the Phils have tired of Burrell's attititude and personality. If it's not a huge issue that would be likely to reoccur in Milwaukee, maybe it's an opportunity....the Sox moved Carlos Lee largely on that same premise.

'06 was a real mess for Hudson...is there a physical problem? His recent numbers, combined with the expense say "Do Not Touch" to me. The Braves say they want to upgrade their staff for this year, if they deal Hudson at this point, are they not conceding his drop in value? "We want better pitching, we'll give you Tim Hudson." Unless they get 2-3 young arms for him that makes me think they believe he won't bounce back.

Young will be in TB next season, he'd have to look absolutely horrid in March to miss Opening Day.

People who cannot answer yes or no bug me. What are you so afraid of?

Doug Melvin traded for Young once before, I'd surely be interested in him if it's possible.

To them, trading teahan(although i think it makes more sense a year from now) is like us trading overbay last year. I agree on that point, the Royals have holes to fill, and they have a top 3B coming, it is exactly like dealing Overbay was for the Brewers. If they can fill a hole by moving Teahan, I'm sure they'll do it, but he'll only go for comparable young talent, they aren't going to ship him out for a couple of bench players.

I do expect someone to give Soriano 15M per season, most likely over five years, so an 80M contract wouldn't come as a major surprise to me. I would be a lot more surprised to see it happen for Carlos, but weird things happen in free agency....never forget Denny Neagle.

I think Sheets or Cappy is what they'd want too, maybe they want Hall, maybe not, they might be able to find a 3B in free agency too, pitching is clearly the need over there. I really don't think the Brewers would let Sheets go right now, and he's got a no trade at this point anyway, so Cappy it is.

If Greg decides he wants to pitch another season, I expect the rumors to start again in Milwaukee. If a contract can be worked out, this one would not surprise me at all.

I do think the Brewers are going to be fairly aggressive this winter, I don't know how far they'll get, but I think they'll pursue as many angles as they can. On Soriano, I don't think there's a lot of debate over whether he'd help Milwaukee, but there is considerable debate over how much is too much when it comes to signing him. So then, let's say you were Doug Melvin, and Soriano's agent called to say, "He'll sign tomorrow morning, he wants 5 years, $75 million, a no trade clause and a guarantee that he'll play second base." You've got him if you want him.....do you say "ok" and if you don't, what's the counter offer?

I agree with Patrick on this issue. Cappy for Crawford gets both teams what they want in the deal, but the Brewers have already stated they'd like more pitching depth for next year, so I consider it highly unlikely. If the Brewers can find another arm to plug into Cappy's spot, and if the TB management comes down from whatever high they seem to be on, there could be a deal here. If we won't let go of Cappy (which would be understandable) we're looking at something like Jackson and Yo or Jackson, and two other prospects of their liking. With Davis a FA in one more year, he's not likely to interest the Rays, we're not going to give them Sheets, even if he'd ok it, so it's Jackson, Villanueva, Inman, etc. I'll hope for it, but I don't expect it.

I've alluded to this sort of move more than once before, TX is paying some of the money, if NY did too, A-Rod becomes affordable to all teams interested. The question is, for what, and would he agree to the deal? I do think NY is going to move him this winter, for him to come here, they'd most likely need to get Hall and two young arms. My guess is they'd ask for Hall, Gallardo and one more, then the Brewers would ask for more than A-Rod in the deal, perhaps Melky Cabrera or a young catcher if the Yanks have one. This turns it into a 5 or 6 player deal, involving huge money, top prospects (possibly both ways) and A-Rod's acceptance of the deal. Not at all likely, but not impossible either. I would deal Hall in a package for A-Rod, if everything fell into place, but my bet will be on the Angels in this one.

I don't blame TB for saying it, but in this market, there is absolutely no way someone will give them an ace plus two for Crawford. Depending on your definition of "ace" I doubt anyone would even do that straight up for Crawford right now, the demand for arms is just too great at the moment. Take a look at the Yankees, starting Jaret Wright in an elmination game. That's a perfect illustration of what the reality is at this point, arms are worth more than bats, period. Which teams does TB consider to have an extra ace lying around anyway?

A guy I know wears sandals a lot, I don't know how else to say it, he has gross toes.

I seem to recall winning a new car.

I enjoy contributing to the site, I'm glad to see so many people here on a regular basis. If this will be your first off-season here, don't go away, wait 'til you see this place jump when the trade rumors heat up in November.

Height doesn't matter to me, Prince isn't 5' 7". I like Lyle, and I'm glad he did well, but I'd make that trade again every single time. There's no doubt in my mind Prince will be the more valuable hitter, it'll start within two years max. Add in Bush and Gross, I hope Toronto calls back when they move Vernon Wells.