Patrick425

I raise those questions because what the Brewers are attempting to do is so amazingly without precedent. I won't post in this thread anymore and just let Wang answer our questions. This is pretty much where I'm coming from also. It's clear that some feel like this is no big deal and that teams do this all the time. I can't think of any time where a team has allowed an A ball caliber pitcher take up a roster spot with basically the assumption he he will be on the roster the entire year because of his "future potential" and we can't afford to lose him despite how poorly he pitches this year. A position rule 5 guy is a little different imho. At least a position rule 5 player can usually can fill in defensively or perhaps they have speed and can be used as pinch runners. An A ball pitcher is usually going to do much more damage than good when they are called upon. It's like the team has basically thrown in the white towel when ever they decide to put him in the game. I don't feel like that's the role of a "mop up" guy. I think they should be at least relied upon occasionally to keep the game within reason with some hope of making a come back. I personally don't think Wang is capable of doing that at the MLB level at this point in his career. I'll also agree that only Wang will settle the argument posed in this thread. At some point in the future (possibly 2 or 3 years from now) we will hopefully see if this experiment worked. I honestly hope I'm wrong and that Wang turns out to A) not hurt us this year and B) be a contributing factor to the success of the Brewers in future years.

The point was not if you could find someone in the history of baseball that has a large ERA in the span of 4 (or 6) innings pitched. The point was could you find a pitcher that has only pitched 6 innings after the first 29 games of the season (while being on the active roster the entire time) with a 15 ERA who was able to keep their roster spot. I realize it's a small sample size, but that's part of my argument. I don't care what your role is or what kind of situations have presented themselves, you should have more than 6 innings pitched after 29 games if you are really contributing to the team...and hopefully better than a 15 ERA in those 6 innings.

The better question is in which games did Roenicke use a guy that had already pitched several times in the last 3 or 4 games because he was afraid to put Wang in there (something that a normal "mop up" guy would be expected to do once in a while)? I think there would have been at least 2 or 3 instances, especially in the last 7-10 games, where a typical "mop up / long relief" role guy would have been called upon to come in for a "non - mop up/long relief" situation just for the sake of giving some arms a rest. How many more victories would we have? I don't know, maybe zero. However, some of that stuff is very hard to quantify. Other pitchers are being asked to pitch more to because the bullpen is basically operating one man short. Who knows what kind of affect that will have on bullpen arms down the road.

You think 4 innings in 29 games is "eating innings" and "saving the rest of the pen"?? I don't see anything that shows he can do that or that the Brewers are willing to allow him to do that. I challange anyone to find another team that has a guy in their bullpen that has been on the active roster since the beginning of the season (no games missed because of injury or DL stints) and has 4IP and a 15 ERA. You are not going to find one because it's unwise to keep a guy on your team that can only pitch in very specific situations and can't get guys out when he does pitch in those situations.

Most "mop up" guys on other teams are also available and have enough experience to pitch even when there is a shortage of arms situation such as the Brewers have had recently. The Brewers are unable and unwilling to use Wang in those situations so this puts strain on other arms in the bullpen (or takes away a position player because they have to call up an extra arm for the bullpen). Hi and Tight made mention that he's on pace for 30 innings and that there have been lots of WS teams with guys in the bullpen that have only pitched 30 innings. What he fails to mention is that none of those guys were on the active roster for the entire season. Show me a WS team that had a pitcher stay on the active roster from April 1 through Sept 30, get only 30 innings pitched, and have an ERA over 6. If this guy was a highly touted, well known prospect that everyone was clamoring about, then maybe it would be worth it. However, I don't see that here. Not sure how deep Baseball America goes in their prospect rankings, but my guess is that Wang would not even crack the top 500. If you don't think 4 IP is enough to go by, what is? Is there any point where you would say, OK, this experiment has run it's course, time to move on? In my mind, he doesn't have to be "light's out", but he has to be at least close to deserving of a MLB roster spot. I don't think he is.

I think Henderson has done a little more in his career to warrant some patience. Up through and including yesterday's performance he has a 3.44 career ERA and 1.23 whip. He also has pitched in 314 minor league games. He has demonstrated that he is capable of pitching at the major league level, Wang has done nothing but show that he can pitch at the rookie league level.

The good thing about him is we can send him back to the minors if he's not getting the job done. Also - none of those runs that scored where credited to Wooten.

2012 Giants Brad Penny-6.11 ERA in 28 IP Mota 5.23 ERA in 20 IP 2014 Red Sox Allen Webster 8.43 ERA 30.1 IP Clayton Mortensen 5.43 ERA in 30.1 IP Of those 4 the youngest was 23. Mortensen was 28, Penny 34 and Mota 38. Penny, had 22 appearances and gave up 3 or more runs in 3 of those appearances Mota 26 appearances 2 with 3 or more runs Webster was a starter that was bounced up and down between the Majors and Minors Mortenson had 24 appearances, 2 with 3 or more runs and was DFA'ed in June Wang has 4 appearances so far and has given up 3 or more runs in half of them. Penny and Mota had extensive MLB experience (in fact it was the last year for each of them). Mortenson also had MLB experience and Webster had had 6 years of minor league experience working his way up from R ball to AAA ball. When Wang pitches the Brewers are basically handing the ball to an A ball player, at best, and letting him go out and face MLB hitters. Comparing Wang to the 4 pitchers mentioned above is comparing apples and oranges. Completely different situations and circumstances.

Me or you could pitch 35 innings for the Brewers this year, doesn't mean we should. The amount of innings he pitches isn't as concerning to me as how he performs pitching in those innings. If Wang can put up the same kind of numbers that the Red Sox and SF pitchers did in their WS years, then I don't have a problem with it. I don't think he can.

Well now he's basically taking up a position spot in the roster with Wooten being called up and Herrera being sent down. The guy puts up good numbers in rookie ball and people are acting like he's the next Sparky Lyle or Tug McGraw. Yes his current stats are from a small sample size. There is a reason for that..because he's not MLB ready and the Brewers don't have faith in him at this point to retire MLB hitters. He has no business pitching in the majors right now.

Ditto. If you are seriously planning to contend this year, then I don't see how you can eat up a valuable roster spot with a guy that basically throws batting practice every time he is called upon to pitch.

Take note Pope Francis. The Brewers are performing miracles on a daily basis!

Yes, the TV side of MLBN does a pretty good job of "spreading the love" to all MLB teams. However, the same can not be said for the XM/Sirius side of things, especially their morning show "First Pitch". I think they spend 80% of their time talking about the Yankees. This morning was a good example. A guy called in talking about the A's and how incredible it is that they are able to compete almost every year with the payroll they work with. The guys on the show just tore into the caller, asking how many WS have the A's won compared to the Yankees and how Brian Cashman has a much tougher job than Billy Bean because of the expectations placed on him. My guess is that these guys could name the 2nd string catcher on NY's AA team, but would not be able to name the backup catcher for the Brewers MLB team (or KC, Pitt, Minn, etc). Also, anyone ever listen to the Cards announcers. I can't stand their play by play guy, John Rooney. The other night I lost 620's signal while driving, so I switched to the XM broadcast which was the Cards announcers. Rooney kept pronouncing Gallardo just as it's spelled..Gal-are-do. Really? How long has Yo been on the Brewers? How many times has he faced the Cards? You still don't know how to pronounce his name?!?

Meh..I guess I'm not in agreement with most on the Lucroy thing. I understand he needs a rest, but not tonight, not against the Cards. It's almost like RRR is saying "Well, we will probably lose anyways, might as well give Lucroy a rest too." Also, something has to give. I can't believe that some DL move was not made today.

I thought last night's win against the Cards was incredible considering the current state of the Brewer's roster. I pretty much chalked it up as a loss when they were down 3-0. Even after the Brewers tied it up, when St. Louis got runners in scoring position in both the 9th and the 10th with less than 2 outs, I pretty much thought it was over. Great, great win.

I know it won't happen, but what love to see Roenicke take Davis out of the game. That was inexcusable. Running with your head down around 3rd and getting thrown out by a mile...really?

Well, sorry, I'm going to submit my "glass is half empty" view of the Brewers. As a Brewer Fan, it's hard not to be optimistic and excited about their start. However, I've been a Brewer Fan long enough to know to temper my enthusiasm until they get through what is traditionally the month they always have trouble with, May. Let's not forget the horrible May they had last year or 1987 where they came out of the gate 13-0 and then proceeded to lose 12 games in a row in May. Also, I don't see any way they win the division unless they can find a way to play at least .500 baseball against the Cards. In regards to Carlos Gomez. Absolutely love his enthusiasm and the way he plays CF. That is fun to watch. However, I absolutely hate his approach at the plate. The swings he has been taking have bee ridiculous and comical, not just for a lead off hitter but for any position in the lineup. Hey Carlos, you have a 3-1 count and your team is up by 3 or 4 runs...fine take that crazy hack where you almost fall backwards on your behind, but to do that every time you swing at the ball.....really?! Why would you ever throw him a fastball anywhere near the strike zone? How is it possible that he's our lead off hitter? I realize that we don't have a ton of options, but he should not be the choice. His career numbers through yesterday...2547 ABs, 149 BBs (?!?), .256 BA, .305 OBP. Not exactly lead-off hitter material. Yes, he did have a good offensive year last year, but personally I want to see him put up numbers like that 2 or 3 years in a row before I really believe that he has turned it around offensively. He just doesn't seem like he would be that hard to pitch to. Sorry for being such a Debbie Downer. What can I say, I grew up with a Dad who was a Cubs fan who basically taught me to not get too excited about anything because then you won't be disappointed when things to pan out.

Looking for a used car for my son. Clearly the biggest fear in buying a used car is that within 3 - 6 months something pops up that ends up costing $1,000 or more to fix (especially when buying from a Private party) So, before I buy a car I would like to get it inspected. It appears that most garages will do this for around $100. The problem is logistics. Most private sellers are a little hesitant to allow this and it's not always easy to find someone that will be willing to do it on a timely basis. Also, if it's a decent car at a decent price most private parties are hesitant to do this because they can probably sell it to someone else quickly without having to go through the inspection hassle. Problem is, it's hard to know if it's really a "decent car" until you get it looked at. I found a few national services on the internet that will send a local mechanic out to inspect the vehicle, but I'm a little leery of the reliability and timeliness of these services. So, I guess my question is if anyone knows of a good local mechanic (in the Milwaukee or Waukesha area) that would do an "on-site" inspection of a car for a reasonable price and within a day of being contacted? My main concerns are timing belt, breaks, transmission, and fluid leaks. I have not found a car yet where I have gotten to the point of wanting to pay for an inspection (mainly looking at Subaru's between about 1998 and 2003), but when I do it would be nice to have a someone I could contact and get this done quickly.

Some might argue that that's almost the point of being a fan of sports team. I know midwesterners routinely get upset with some of the national sports outlets for their lack of coverage of teams inside the "fly over" states. ESPN is commonly referred to the East Coast Sports Network many in this part of the country for their love of all things Yankees/Red Sox. As silly as it may be, fans tend to take pride in having their team talked about by someone other than the local sports media. How many times when you are on vacation somewhere do you see someone wearing a championship t-shirt of their team (Ha..my team won the championship and your's didn't!)? Some of that national media stuff may has lost some of it's luster now that there is Fox Sports, ESPN, MLB network, and all the various internet sites. However, I do remember when I was a kid and there was basically only the three major networks, I watched This Week In Baseball religiously, especially if the Brewers had a good week in hopes that they would make some mention of the team. I think sales of SI still get a boost locally whenever they put one of our local teams on the cover. I believe some of that is because people in this part of the country still get that "Wow, look at that, our team is on the cover of a national magazine!" feeling. My son has an oversize canvas picture of the 2011 SI cover featuring the Brewers on his bedroom wall that he asked for that Christmas.

That put a smile on my face.

This is basically where I am at. At the "not yet" position. Someday, possibly..maybe even probably, but for now I just hope he continues to help the team and doesn't fail any more tests.

Fair enough. Is it wrong for me to find it odd and be disappointed that the player who played a total of 61 games last year for the Brewers and accepted a half year suspension from MLB for cheating gets a warmer reception from the fans than the player that won a gold glove and was clearly the Brewer's MVP in 2013? I know, I know, Braun needs the fans support, forgiveness, and love more than Gomez does. By that standard, Rickie Weeks should get a standing O every time he comes to the plate. If anyone needs the fans support right now it's him!

As lcbj68c stated I think there are definitely people who just like to look for an excuse to boo players. It is part of sports, just like hating the Yankees or Cowboys. Sports needs "villains". Although I usually view the necessary villians as players who are just good and maybe come off a little cocky (Y. Molina may be an example). I remember the harsh treatment Reggie Jackson use to get at County stadium for basically just being good (ok...and maybe a bit egotistical). I had a love/hate view of Reggie. I hated how he played against my beloved Brewers, but at same time I would emulate his batting stance and swing when playing strikeout with my friends. I always believed that Reggie was the player that invented the "pose" after hitting a HR. If he didn't invent it, he surely popularized it.

My view of baseball before the steroid era and after the steroid era is different. I still enjoy watching the game, but I don't know what's real any more. I also rooted for Sosa and McGwire when they were chasing the record. However, I was also disappointed when the realization came in regards to the wide use of PEDs during that period and the fact that those HR chases probably would not have been possible without that extra help. I can't help but be skeptical now whenever I see someone go on a HR tear or dramatically increase their offensive numbers from one year to another. When I see a player who seems overly toned, I now can't help but look at them with a skeptical eye. I'm angry towards the people who allowed this to happen to baseball (players, owners, whoever). I realize that are some like you who are apathetic towards it all and could care less if players are putting up better numbers because of PEDs. Sorry if I'm not in that same camp. I preferred the game I grew up watching prior to the steroid era. My hope is that we are starting to see a return to that because watching guys hit 60 or 70 HRs a year is not fun to watch for me if it seems apparent that they could not do this without chemical help. I might as well just watch my son play one of his baseball video games. If you want to accuse me of acting morally superior because because I feel this way, then so be it.

Ref Cubs/Cards/whoever - Nope. I never boo ANY player. I don't shout obscenities from the bleachers at players. They are simply men who put their britches on the same way I do and play a game for a different company than the one I want to succeed. I followed McGwire and Sosa and cheered their powerful homeruns. I could really care less about PED's. I could really care less that he lied. He didn't lie to me directly. I could care less that he looked like a tool in a press conference. Bill Belichick lies weekly in his press conferences and looks like a tool. It doesn't affect one bit my desire for my team and it's employees to perform well. I HAVE ZERO DESIRE TO BE THE MORALITY POLICE. I think that those that are booing, making signs in public that say "Expletive cheater", like I witnessed in Boston, feel some inate desire to be the morality police. And for what? Like somebody said earlier as I witnessed in Boston, the people booed for 4 seconds, then sat down and watched the rest of the at bat. They went home that night not giving two turds about Ryan Braun. Some of them booed out of the peer pressure of their neighbor who booed. It was quite laughable. "Look at me...I'm ANNNNGRRRRRY!!!" Someday, they'll go back to booing something of substance, like checking the runner at first twice in a row" Ok, you wouldn't, but I know the general Brewer fan reaction would be the same if he was on any other team. Why wouldn't it be? Why would the Brewer fans be any different than any other fans around baseball? It certainly wasn't for Bonds when he was implicated with PEDs use and came to town chasing the HR record. Accusing someone of acting like the "Morality Police" because they don't agree with your point of view is a bit over the top. As I stated in another post, are you acting like the morality police because you have the willingness to forgive and I don't? How is expressing your contempt of people who chose not support Braun any different that someone expressing there contempt for people who have total apathy regarding his actions? We just disagree, that's all. Has nothing to do with believing one of us is morally superior to the other.