rickh150

DS has never had a legit contending team that wasn’t a total surprise/possible fluke. So his past deals are almost completely irrelevant. Nothing DS did previously made signing Cain even entirely possible...until it happened. He isn't selling the farm for rentals. That would be a serious shift from all his winning team year to year talk with young, controlled talent. His actions over the last few years have shown us who he is. Why would he change now?

Don't like the train of thought that suggests our pitching is fine. We need pitchers that can dominate lineups, good lineups down the stretch and in the playoffs. We need a #1 that will go deep into games regularly that will save our pen. deGrom is one of those guys.

Glad Miller is doing well... hope he gets hot cause he'll be starting a lot in the coming weeks. Hope you enjoyed Sogard's clutch pinch hitting again tonight (and late def. replacement for Miller). That was the right spot for him, especially when we are looking for solid line drive contact there with a guy at 3B with less than 2 outs. Great play by Broxton in CF... not sure if Yelich makes that one.

Eh, I'd much rather just consider what their production is relative to average at their position. It has nothing to do with a player's merit if they have another really productive player who can play the same position. The idea is to be much better than your counterpart on the other team, not much better than your back-up. You're still much more likely to win because you have Cain instead of an average CF. The fact that you also have Yelich is strictly circumstantial. Again, we are talking MVP, not MOP. Value has a whole team component to it that can be tricky and open to more interpretation.

Another quality PH at bat for Sogard.....

Brad Miller actually has a track record of hitting. That’s the difference. More like one good year...

Nothing in DS past deals suggests a Machado deal is coming.... a rental that would cost our best prospects, no. More like, a rental for spare parts or good prospects for a talented player with a 3 to 5 year contract. August deals make more cents.. deGrom makes way more sense.

Really not much doubt anymore who the MVP is this half with the injuries....

Thames is playing a lot of LF these days, and Yelich (when healthy) plays CF.

Isn't Zagurski one of those dead end AAA guys that won't be getting that call up, supposedly? Alll Star Orf has hope!

Major league general managers do not play "hot bats" to decide on personnel very often. Sometimes it can break a tie, but I spent a page discussing how Orf is not in the same stratosphere of MLB talent with Saladino, Sogard, Franklin, Miller. You take the player that is most talented/has a track record (under normal circumstances)/tools to thrive in your situation. You don't grab a guy because he happens to be on a 20 for 35 hitting streak in the minors if you don't think he can hack MLB pitching. You can apply "hot bat" to someone like Aguilar when they grabbed him. He had MLB power and he may have been undervalued coming in. It appears that he's also adjusted his launch angle. In that case, if he's a hot bat in spring training it may raise an eyebrow and warrant a chance. Beyond that, hitters generally have a "hot bat" based on facing poor pitchers or hitting in great environments (like Colorado Springs). Nate Orf's hot streak would end very quickly when he wasn't hitting in Colorado and comes in to face MLB pitching given all of the points I've laid out that he simply is probably not cut out to be a very good hitter in the majors. Would have been nice to see him give it a go.... a shame to do so incredibly well without a cup of coffee. His on base is still over .400.... It's tough to believe he would have been worse than our scrap heap now. If one is hitting AAA pitching and doing well in Spring Training, he isn't trash, just down on the depth chart, I guess. I'm curious what other Brewers players are in Orf's category of AAA that will never sniff the big leagues... would like to see some specific names so I know who obviously really isn't a player. The haven't been drafted thing wears thin on me.... tons of examples that either were drafted low or not at all that had solid, if not spectacular, careers. Hot bats or arms are brought up all the time from AA or AAA based on impressive results there and not just tools. The reason so many want Hiura up like NOW is his hot bat, even though his track is for next year or 2020. Peralta is partly up now for the same reason.... Even Sogard was hitting really well in the minors last season and was brought up partly because of that, not because he was a second round pick or that he had previous experience in the bigs. Aguilar was acquired in the offseason about a year and a half ago.... nothing to do with him having a hot bat. I define this "hot" as doing really well or way above avg performance from a weekish to a month plus. I'm guessing your definition is different.

Serious? Cain 5th? Gimme a break. Cain by a fair margin in my opinion. I don't have a problem with Aguilar first, but yeah. Cain is way too low and having Chacin 2nd but Guerra who has been better in pretty much every way at 6th doesn't make sense to me. Chacin' #'S really took a hit with his last outing..... have to drop him somewhat, Hader now too. Guerra has three less starts than Chacin, part of why I placed him lower. Explained earlier but Cain can be replaced fairly well with Yelich in center. We are deep in the OF so his numbers can be replaced better than most areas on the team. Most outstanding? Cain or Aguilar.... Most Valuable? Aguillar.... His overall game- power, avg, hitting pitching when the rest of the team isn't, two strike approach would be missed more than even Cain.

Shortstop of the future I was told. He and Hiura will be up the middle for years to come. Just be good.

I think we can put the "trade half the farm for a SP" talk to bed now. Half the farm? Sure. Yet, a trio of top prospects for 2 and a half years of deGrom is awake.

Shaw was actually pulled from a game. Not just one of those nagging injuries. Bad enough he was stopped mid AB. Sitting/resting with the same injury TWICE in a short period of time begs the DL, especially since it is only 10 games now. And almost more importantly, we are not deep at 3B. I'd rather sit him now to give the team some assurance they can have him later. We might be able to get by better with him out now playing poorer teams than when we have to face the Cubs/Cards/playoff teams. Furthermore, Shaw's production tailed off last season in the second half when he was healthy. We need good Shaw 2nd half. Why push it?

Most here agree with this.... Our middle IF guys are meh at best We need to get the hot IF bat in the lineup, whomever that be. That is why I though Orf was a candidate instead of Franklin or Saladino in May. He was hitting out of his mind, and we could have capitalized on that for the short term. I'm not calling for Orf now as he has cooled off a bunch. Why do you think Franklin was at AA instead of AAA? Was it because of the inflated numbers at AAA?

Just would like to be conservative with Shaw's wrist. It has been twice now that he has been out with this. I'm unrealistic? Miller and Shaw as long term replacements?

I'm going to stop this line of conversation right here. I re-read the thread, and everyone on both sides has continually posted using rationale for their point of view. Now, you can certainly disagree with the rationale, but calling anyone's viewpoints the equivalent of 'blind loyalty' is inflammatory and unnecessary. Feel free to continue the discussion of the topic at hand, but don't make it personal. This part is personal? Seems extremely vague.... didn't acknowledge anyone personally. Questioning one's viewpoint... happening here constantly. One guy recently asked what was wrong with me? Now That seems personal. Others have made me out to be stupid or even racist because I prefer Sogard (for now) to other of our current middle infielders. If Jonny17 defends a player move by simply saying it is the right move because DS made it, nothing else, that is what I don't agree with. He has the right to say it, sure. I have the right to say say his reasoning is empty. I have a legit viewpoint that I can share, not mean spirited, just fairly honest on how I view one's response, not the person's integrity.

What was it at the end of a May? It doesn't really matter. The point is that on the whole, Orf's entire "he hits so well in AAA" description has to do with the fact that he essentially plays half of his games on the moon. The rest of the PCL is actually great for hitters but he has only done OK with that. It's the same reason that there are various guys that put up borderline All Star numbers for the Rockies that I would be barely interested in in a trade. You can't trust the numbers unless they're by a truly good hitter that can hit outside of that environment as well. If you are right, he needs to get out of AAA. They are wasting a spot.

Easy, man. So much anger and angst, you say. I like Stearns. What Brewers fan wouldn't? I am not agreeing with his every little move, though, and I don't appreciate the argument of just trust the GM. Come up with something better than that. We all trust in this guy, big picture of course, but we can question moves. Isn't that what Brewerfan is about? Discussing many of the moves made in Game and out? Can I think Sogard is better than he is showing? For wanting our hottest hitting middle IF at AAA to get a shot with the team when Franklin, then Saladino were called up?

What was it at the end of a May?

What I've learned on this thread... When in doubt, pretend you know what you are talking about by standing by your man, Stearns. Give a good case for why Stearns did what he did and tear down others possible solutions to the issue. AAA is where bad baseball players are sent with little hope for the majors, duh. I always thought this was where many MLB bench players, retreads, and veterans were sent to be a jump away from the bigs, if need be, to fill a gap. Sogard and Orf are really bad- Sogard because of this year's stats... Orf DESPITE them. Yet, if Orf was brought up to be a backup infielder in May, no one talks about how Orf shouldn't get a shot. Stearn's men here would logically say that if Stearns likes him and his advanced metrics are good, he must be legit. The same people logically say now that since he was skipped over the last 6 weeks by AA guys, a traded player, and awful Sogard, he must be bad and some AAA players are gap fillers with no hopes of the bigs. There is a huge gap between utility players.

I get the whole organization depth thing, but Orf has to be like option 10 in the IF, regardless of what he is doing at AAA. Possibly unprecedented to not bring up a AAA bat when considering how bad our IF has been. He could hit .450 and it would be ignored. Naw, if he is as bad as you believe (and you may be right), other MLB retreads should be at AAA instead of this poor sap. We have umpteen of them.

Sounds like a very short-sighted plan.... if we are in the Playoffs, this sounds like a good plan. Skip Game 1 and 2 and shoot for playing him in Game 3. There is no net if Shaw is out for the majority of the season. Playing with fire here. Or, it's a plan with very little downside. "If can't go [Thursday], time for a different plan." They can always back-date a DL stint. The only thing we know right now is that the Brewers' medical staff feel this is minor enough to take a wait-&-see approach with. If he can't go Thurs., then send him to the 10-day DL. Short bench (again) is the downside... Relying on "how it feels" with a huge cog on our team with no good option to back him up is concerning, at best.

It must have something to do with his ability to play CF and our OF defense....