adambr2

It's worth noting that the proposed deal for Dempster between the Braves and Cubs is Dempster for Randall Delgado. Dempster and Greinke are similar cases right now -- ace pitchers for their teams that are both strictly rentals right now. I can't think of any good reason that a Greinke rental is worth more than a Dempster rental at this very moment. Delgado is a nice young pitcher, but that's about it. He is not an elite prospect. He is a guy who will probably be a decent cost-controlled #3 pitcher in your rotation for a number of years. I would take it at this point, but the point is that I think those expecting an exciting return for Greinke are going to be in for a world of disappointment.

I'd pretty convinced that after K-Rod's embarrassment tonight, he contains very little value at this point.

No, you misunderstood what I was saying. As I said and you reiterated, 20 days is the cutoff for earlier free agency. I am well aware of the fact that Hardy started 2005 on the opening day roster, but the 20 days down in AAA in August of 2009 is what cost him hitting free agency a year earlier. I wasn't "paralleling" Fiers to Hardy, simply pointing out that service time does matter. I was the first one to mention 20 days, and I mentioned it was in 2009 when he was sent down -- I am well aware that Fiers was called up after that mark and thus that particular situation wouldn't come into play with him. The only think I definitely should have worded better is saying " a window in a players first season", when it doesn't need to be the first season.

That's simply not true. For one, there is a window in a player's first season that he must be called up after in order to not have that first year count as a full season, I believe it's 20 days but that most definitely matters. That's the whole reason behind the JJ Hardy controversy in 2009, they gained a full extra year service from that. Also, since arbitration salary generally accelerates year to year, it has an affect in subsequent seasons. The Washington Post actually did a study that found that the Nationals saved roughly $18M over the years by delaying Strasburg's arrival. Fiers isn't going to be Strasburg, but the point is that it's worth considering, a lot more than the "$1-$2 million" that you chalk it up as.

I'm optimistic that we will go into this series talking about what a big series it is, not play well enough to help us get back into it, and then go on and talk about how big the next series is.

I doubt it. Long-term, I'm more concerned whether or not Fiers came up early enough this year to eventually be Super-2 eligible. I'm thinking no, but I don't recall exactly when he was promoted.

There is absolutely no reason not to trade K-Rod by the deadline. He won't be back and won't bring compensation anyway. At best you can get a "maybe" prospect for him, at worst you can get a few million dollars in payroll relief. Trading Ramirez depends on the direction of the team. If you think we can somehow contend next year, sure, keep him around. If not, you better deal him while you can. Greinke is obvious, but I hope the ship hasn't sailed on getting something worth more than a comp pick for him. Other than those three, there's frankly not very much that you could consider to be somebody we would want to part with while also being somebody that would be a worthwhile for trade value. No one is going to give us anything of value for Wolf, Ransom, Kottaras, Ishikawa, Morgan, etc.

My mistake, I don't know why I thought Morgan was on 2nd, that does make me feel better about that. I still would prefer that rule be revised to include umpire discretion, especially with 2 outs and the runner from 1st moving on contact.

Really Augie? You think the Brewers and Phillies are both clubs that are looking to get something going? Now that's analysis.

Fiers' current line of 3-4, 1.96 ERA looks like a mini-version of Ben Sheets 2004.

Here's hoping that Melvin doesn't share Augustine's delusions about the Brewers still being in the race after this.

About the best thing to happen to this team this year, is that we found in-house our #3 starter of the future for near-minimum salary for the next 3 1/2 years. There's no way Fiers keeps up this pace, but there's no reason to think he isn't at least a middle of the rotation starter going forward.

Random rant here, but MLB needs to revise rules regarding ground rule doubles. Ramirez hits a ground rule double, with Morgan at 2nd, he's basically crossing home plate as the ball hits in the field, and he gets pulled back to 3rd? That is insanely stupid. Punishing a guy for hitting a ground rule double and keeping a run off the board in a situation where a dribbler up the middle would have scored one? At the very least, every runner should be allowed to advance two bases on this. No way should a guy at 2nd not be allowed to score on a ground rule double.

I'm not even upset about this. Something needed to happen to pound it through Mark and Doug's head that this thing is over, that we are not in this race. 10 1/2 back in the division and swept by the division leaders should just about take care of that.

Reigning MVP and Chapman just made him look very bad.

Carlos Gomez vs. Chapman. Yeah, this isn't a mismatch.

I think the entire league is hitting about .140 off him this year, so I would say most definitely yes he can.

It would be great if the world had such technology to make this a possibility. Hopefully someday.

It should have never come to that, because the ump blew the call at 2nd, but what a sissy arm from Morgan in CF.

This team is really good at believing they can get back in the race and wanting so bad to get back in the race. Not so much at actually doing it.

Long-term, I think something like this allowed would destroy a team like the Brewers. Every team near the top would be forced to either unload their prospects to keep pace with everyone else doing the same. Every August and September you'd be watching less than 10 teams or so play competitive baseball with All-Star like teams with everyone else playing out the fiddle. Sounds like something to me that goes against the intent of the spirit of the game. If there were any proposed such trade that came with an agreement to return the traded player to his original team in the offseason, I think MLB would quickly squash it, or at least before it became a trend.

WE only get one pick for him. Anyone else who trades for him gets nothing if they lose him.

Well, let's start with what we know for sure. Aoki, Braun, Estrada, Fiers, Gallardo, Gamel, Hart, Lucroy, Maldanado, Ramirez, Ransom, Thornburg or Peralta, and Weeks are all under team commitment or contract and project on the 25 man roster next year. Wolf has a $1.5M buyout, and I'm assuming 500K each for the pre-arby guys, so if I'm off on those, it's not going to be more than a couple hundred thousand total. Altogether that's 13 guys, and $53,900,000. I'm going to project Fiers to the rotation, and ONE of Thornburg and Peralta in MLB battling with Estrada for a rotation spot with one going to the rotation and the other to the bullpen, and the other of Thornburg and Peralta in AAA, and Gamel back at 1B and Hart in RF. Now the arby guys are Axford, Gomez, Ishikawa, Kottaras, Morgan, Parra, and Narveson. Of that group, I expect them to hold onto Axford, Parra, and Gomez, and IF healthy, Narveson. These are more "guess" figures, but I will say $2.75M for Axford, $2.75M for Gomez, and $2.5M for Parra, and $2M for Narveson, for a total of $10M, which brings the total up to $63,900,000. So that's 17 guys, and the remaining 8 needs are 1 starting SS, 1 SP, 4 bullpen spots, and 2 bench spots. The 2 bench spots can easily be filled by guys like Schafer and Green for 500K each (total $64,900,000). Looks to me like they've got at least $30M or so to find a starting SS, a top notch starting SP, and fill out the bullpen. I don't see a financial issue for next year. And before anyone says they think Jungmann or Bradley will be in the rotation next year, or Marcum will be re-signed for $10M a year, or Narveson won't be back, or Axford will make more than $2.75 in arbitration, that's fine, I really have no idea. I'm just doing the best I can here, it's tough to make a 25 man roster projection 9 months before it comes out. ----- Continued from: viewtopic.php?p=803635#p803635 Original Lead: viewtopic.php?t=28549

5 years and $112M is $22,400,000 per season, it's a more than a fair and generous offer for a starting pitcher that has had one season in his career with an ERA under 3.47. If Greinke wishes not to accept it, it's time for Melvin to shake his hand, wish him the best of luck in free agency, and end contract negotiations right there, as 5/$112 is no doubt already pushing the upper limits of what they're comfortable offering him.

Had the teams been reversed, Molina would have been sitting there with the ball as the Brewer runner streaked down the line halfway between 3rd and home desperately charging toward the plate.