Fatter than Joey

Just for fun -- Here is Tbows performance from Monday -- for comparison purposes. Rollins Pitch 1 FB -- fouled 0-1 Pitch 2 CB -- outside 1-1 (Close) Pitch 3 FB -- High 2-1 Pitch 4 FB -- outside 3-1 Pitch 5 FB -- fouled 3-2 Pitch 6 CB -- fouled 3-2 Pitch 7 FB -- High/Inside Walk Utley Pitch 1 CB -- Low -- Wild pitch 1-0 Pitch 2 CB -- Way High outside 2-0 Pitch 3 FB -- Single to center (6-5) (Maddux to the mound) Burrell Pitch 1 FB -- Flyout to deep right Dobbs Pitch 1 FB -- single (Cordero up in pen) Nunez Pitch 1 FB -- Foul 0-1 Pitch 2 FB -- Swinging strike 0-2 Pitch 3 FB -- single Ruiz Pitch 1 FB -- Foul 0-1 Pitch 2 FB -- Called Strike 0-2 Pitch 3 FB -- FC/GB to Prince -- (Prince makes a bad play-- could have been a DP). (6-6) Helms Pitch 1 FB -- High 1-0 Pitch 2 FB -- Swinging strike 1-1 Pitch 3 FB -- Way Inside 2-1 (Cordero down Spurling up) Pitch 4 FB -- Single (off the wall) -- (6-7) Rowand Pitch 1 FB -- Called Strike 0-1 Pitch 2 CB -- Sac Fly (6-8) (Turnbow out) Note: None of these singles were cheap -- all liners to the OF. Nothing good is going to happen with Tbow throwing 13 straight FBs. He also seems to be having trouble locating his 97mph FB as well. About the only thing he got over the plate was the 93-94 MPH pitch

Did he look bad tonight (didn't see the game) or did he look OK until giving up the HR? Russ -- Turnbow came into the 8th 2 outs 1st and 3rd Burrell -- He threw 2 fastballs to get the count to 1-1 He bounced a curveball, Estrada makes a great play keeping it in front of him, (wild pitch) -- count 2-1 -- next pitch Burrell chases a high FB to pop out 9th Dobbs Pitch 1 -- Curve low 1-0 Pitch 2 -- FB -- Routine GB to Prince unassisted -- 1 out Nunez Pitch 1 -- Fastball Nunez fouls off of foot. 0-1 Pitch 2 -- Fastball outside 1-1 Pitch 3 -- Fastball foul 1-2 Pitch 4 -- Low Curve in dirt Nunez Ks -- Estrada throws to 1b -- 2 outs (All FBs were 97 mph up to this point) Ruiz. Pitch 1 -- Fastball fouls off 0-1 Pitch 2 -- Curve outside -- Estrada backhands 1-1 Pitch 3 -- Curve high/outside -- 2-1 Pitch 4 -- Fastball 94 MPH HR -- Game over. That is what happened. -- I observed the following. 1.) Turnbow only gets one called strike (Burrell) 2.) No one swung and missed his fastballs. 3.) He only got ahead of one batter His breaking stuff was largely missing -- He made a nice pitch to K Nunez though, that was the only breaking pitch swung at.

Just venting about all the other threads that have been started the last couple days about how the sky is falling now that we have lost a few games. So you feel the need to call them "crazies"? -- The one thing that I have noticed, is that the "Pro-Brewers" group can really have a tendency to be pretty mean/aggressive to posters who have criticisms or concerns.

How is this Yost's fault again? Yost brought him into the game.

Does a win tonight cancel the suicide watch or just drop it down a level? Dude -- haven't you heard -- Ned is getting a beatdown. If we end up losing 4 of 5, I bet Ned will have another "jogging accident"

So, in order to blow a 4 run lead, he'd have to be more than twice as bad as his career average. He was infinitely as bad as he gave up 2 runners with getting an out. If he would have gotten one out his WHIP would have 6.

What stats have priority, pitcher splits or batter splits? He was looking at the batters' lefty splits, but clearly missed Shouse's horrible righty splits. Personally, I think I'd give more weight to the pitcher's splits. I think there are a few factors... Here would have been my approach. 1.) I look at Rowands splits for this year, I notice he is struggling against LHP, I say "that's odd" and then I look at his career stats and see that he actually hits LHP pretty hard. 2.) Then you look at Shouse and you look to see if there is any indication that he can get RHers out -- I think his WHIP is 1.9 or something like that. 3.) Then you ask yourself -- Is Shouse a guy that is hard to hit? -- i.e., does he have a 12-6 curve or a 98 mph heater? Nope, Shouse gets LHers out with his arm location more than anything. I see no compelling reason that Shouse should ever face a RH hitter. To answer your question TC, I will echo Bruce, and say that Ned should weigh on the splits of his pitcher in this case -- as he should know his pitcher better than a Phillies hitter -- this is to say, if he went to stats.com and made his decision based on stats, and not knowing that Shouse can't get RHers out -- that is a scary thought. There is enough intuitive evidence that Shouse just doesn't have the tools to get RHers out. I wouldn't say that it is a pitcher v. hitter decision, -- rather a Brewer v. Phillie decision -- and Ned should put the weight behind the splits of his player as he should know them better. This could mean using or not using a player, i.e., Ned should have looked at Shouse's WHIP against RHers, and trusted that rather than Rowands 2007 slump against LHers and saved Shouse to pitch against the tough lefty in Utley.

It didn't work this time, but there was a valid reason for it. He still brought Turnbow in with plenty of room for error. Shouse and T-Bow did not get the job done tonight. The fact that Rowand has struggled against LHP is not good enough reason to run Shouse out there against him. Shouse is what he is, and he has never demostrated an ability to get RHers out. I understand that in Tbow's case he didn't get the job done, and he got pulled to end the inning -- but there is a point where a manager needs to realize that his pitcher is done, hopefully next time Ned will do something before run #6 in the inning scores. As a side note -- I really hope that this illustrates that Tbow is a few notches behind CoCo as far as closers go, and never should be considered an adequate replacement.

Maybe Ned pulled him too early, but it looked like he did the right thing, for whatever reason it was that he did it. Fair enough -- I agree that pulling Bush was probably the smart thing to do -- either to avoid the meltdown or stiffness http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif I think that this year -- the difference is that Yost has a pretty reliable BP, (used correctly). It makes more sense to me to have a quicker hook this year if for no other reason you have a stud like Cordero that is better than any of our starters at 70+ pitches.

I seriously do not see what Ned did wrong. Take off the goggles. He would be to blame no matter what he did, during any game we lose. You always say this sort of thing after Ned does something stupid and then people call him out on it. We have lost 3 out of our last 4. After the 2 losses to the Mets, there was very little grumbling about Yost. It is absolutely not fair or true to say that Ned gets blamed for all of our losses. We take a 4 run lead into the 8th with a well-rested pen. We give up 6 runs, and our best option, sits on the sidelines. It is entirely reasonable to question what Ned did last night.

Not only did Bush finish the inning where he got whacked, but he batted and pitched another inning. Again, I don't think that the injury was the ONLY reason he came out. Look at the circumstances that Wise entered the game in. I think the ball off the knee was probably a large part of why Bush was pulled. Bush could have been experiencing some tightness/swelling, etc. Sometimes you get hit and you are ok for awhile and then things tend to stiffen. My problem with Turnbow is not his mental makeup/shortcomings. I really don't think it is a situation of Tbow getting rattled. If Tbow can't locate his breaking pitches, his fastball is going to get hit hard. Tbow's heat is not good enough to throw past batters. He doesn't get any movement on his fastball, and he is not adept at locating it. After he threw that breaking pitch past Estrada, it was meatball city. After that pitch, the hitters were sitting dead-red on Tbow's fastball. Ned should have realized this and got Tbow out of the game, if not for the Brewer's sake, for the the sake of the safety of the fans as there are going to be a lot of hard shots hit.

Career vs. 1 month. One month wins! Historically the Brewers havent had the BP options they have had this year. What has happened this year is data, and would be foolish to ignore altogether.

And what makes you think that T-Bow would have been any better if he came in to start the inning? Well -- He would have faced 2 RHers instead of 2 LHers, plus the Brewers would have had Shouse to face Utley.

And I didn't at all. Bush has a history of pitching deep into games and getting STRONGER as he goes on. Not after getting dinged on the knee -- plus Bush has given up a lot of XBH this year. If you always pull a starter at the earliest sign of trouble, you burn out your bullpen and have Shouse pitching against righties in the 8th. ?? -- I dont understand your point here -- Wise pitched in the 7th through the 7th, Turnbow could have started the 8th. Hooking Bush in the 6th had nothing to do with Shouse starting the 8th.

Shouse and Turnbow have been lights out all year. Shouse has never been lights out against RHers. I understand the idea that Tbow was due to get hit, but at some you pull him out. -- Ideally before run #8

Shouse shouldn't be brought in to face righties ever. I'll take Spurling or anyone else over Shouse's 80 MPH fastball against a righty. Agreed 100% What bothers me -- is that the Phils start the inning with 2 RH and then have 2 great hitting LH -- and Yost brings in the LHP to face the RH hitters, and then pulls the LHP to allow a RHP to face 2 nasty LH hitters. And how Cordero never gets in the game is beyond me. It's not as if Tbow was giving up cheap singles -- he was WILD. I really liked Yost hooking Bush for Wise -- that was awesome, but the 8th inning was mind-boggling.

If Bush was in, he screws up that DP by getting his knee in the way

And I'll correct 45 sec. worth of grammar. You use "s" to abbreviate seconds, "sec." is the abbreviation for secant.

I think that it has been made clear by many here that they would like to talk about football on occasion and not want to register for that site (myself included). The problem is, that the "many here" that have "made things clear" are not the powers that be. I really do not understand the resistance to registering on LL. If you can't take a minute to register there, then how important is it to post your thoughts? I think you guys are taking your Lambeau Leap site a little too far and serious. It's really transformed into a nice site. I am thankful that the powers that be have taken it so serious and have made such a nice site. I am not a huge Packer fan, but I am a huge Badger fan, and I am a huge fan of the dudes on this site. I wish you had the short-hairs to bring your Rex Grossman love to that site, as it would make for some interesting discussions. If you want to talk about the Bears, I am pretty sure you already belong to forums to do so, --- if you want to just rub it into Packer fans on a baseball site, why not man up, and do it at an actual Packer site.

Wow. I didn't see that coming. I figured he'd end up looking at the wrong side of the grass sooner or later but but not that way. Agreed, I figured that it would have something different, I hope all the air time and buildup with AJ leads to something worthwhile because Robert Iler is a bad actor and his character has rarely been interesting in large doses. Agreed as well, however, I have always felt that this show is about Tony and his family, and the show needs to address the "full circle" with Tony's son, and I think in a large part the show will end on how Tony deals with his son. I suspect the largest payoff in the next 3 episodes will be about AJ.

I think most people are familiar with a character somewhat like Andy -- the guy who trys way too hard all the time. I know I have mentioned this before -- but I worked with a guy that was just... like... Andy -- in fact it creeps me out -- even down to the doo-wop songs. I used to forward him any mail that we would get from nutjobs. That was probably mean of me. We would get mail with "numerology" calculations proving the end of the world, Bill Clinton was the Anti-Christ, etc. we would insert "Andy's" SS# into the calculations and watch him freak out. Good times.

For the first time, I actually liked an AJ centered episode as he struggled with depression. And Tony's advice might end up backfiring on him. Agreed -- good observation. I have always thought AJ would get in some sort of trouble that allows the feds to pinch Tony, and then he flips on his crew. I think this sort of storyline is more likely to happen than a full blown gang war. I totally did not expect Chris to shoot the guy from Wings, I suspect Chris does make the last show. Perhaps Tony has to make a choice between his 2 "sons"?

Yeah -- I'd def. get a jersey as well.

They showed a couple of times in the dugout where Sheets was in Yost's ear -- he seemed pissed. We should see if Shen Beets posts on firenedyost.com tonight.

Hardy has a 2.127 OPS against Duke -- Thats awesome. I wonder if Duke has "Hardy flashbacks"