JJHardy7

If Prince is traded before he's FA, then we should get a pretty serious bounty in return, which would make it pretty easy to put together a team in 2012. Have you forgotten that, even though he's only signed through 2010, we control Prince through 2011? I have not forgotten. I would just assume that he'll be moved for pitching. Again X, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying you can't simply list names and say hey we're 4th in runs now our offense is fine. I do agree that there is potential to have some of our current guys for a few years, but this offense isn't fool proof or anything like that. Again, let's wait until the end of the seeing. If we're 4th then, maybe I'll buy into that more. There's still 60 or so games left. We're 4th in Runs Scored without Weeks putting together a full season and without Hart figuring anything out. My proposal has Gamel staying here, plugged in on the cheap. Weeks has never put a full season together. I don't get your point on that. The guys you mentioned could all improve and be pretty darn good then...or they could stay where they're at or not reach their full potential. My only point is that I personally think we can't just disregard the offense. I do agree that you could fine a defensive SS, but beyond Braun there are still a ton of questions. And again, you are right that we could trade one of Gamel or Escobar...but we need to make sure we trade the 'right' one. Saying all that I wouldn't touch the trade you proposed, but that's just me. Trading Escobar or Gamel is one thing, but I don't want to give up that many hitters. I'm not saying your wrong and that deal could work out well. That's what makes this time of year interesting!

What in the world would makes you think that "chances are" he'd demand a trade after the season? He's never indicated at all that he would do that if traded. It's possible, but it's way more unlikely than likely. On top of that, I'm sure that Melvin and Co. would find out from him or his agent how likely that scenario would be before trading for him. Again, the reason why Melvin is looking at guys like Lee and Halladay is as much for next season than this season. If he doesn't think that Halladay will stick around then he's not going to trade for him. He has the right to based on his contract. You are right Melvin could find out, but you can't just assume the trade would be for next season. Since he's a veteran and signed a long-term contract he has the right to essentially opt out of it after this season if he's traded. That's just the fact as far as I know it, but I'll admit I don't know what reference or whatever it is.

We'd be replacing Counsell/Hall with Gamel in a lineup that is already 4th in Runs Scored. We also likely be looking at offensive production from the catcher position. Oh I understand that, but some of the guys you mentioned we shouldn't bank on to be here or be above average. Let's also see where we finish the year in runs scored. It looks nice now and hopefully we continue that. Which of the traded players would be added to the team in 2012? Just Escobar. Green is blocked by Gamel. Lawrie might not be ready by then, with just 2 more years in the minors. We will have already added Cain and 1 of the catchers. I think Gindl is an under-rated player, who should easily replace Hart. We could add a FA. We have 4 starters right now that we've signed as FA's, plus our closer. My point is that the list you had doesn't impress me enough to think it's a slam dunk we'll win the division in 2011. Prince may not be here. I'd rather have more guys plugged in on the cheap like Escobar and Gamel than bank on Prince being here, Hart figuring it out, or Weeks putting together a full year. The offense as it stands now could be awesome or have a lot of holes. Some of the guys you listed aren't the most proven as above average players IMO. Maybe they will be then. It looks like you were just making a basic statement so I'll try not to read too much into it since you mention Hart being replaced. The way I see is that we have more questions than answers for 2012 and not the other way around. I also don't care if anyone is blocked. You can turn those players for other assets if you have the right timing. Again, I won't dive to far into your comment. I do agree that we would be able to give away a prospect and not be crushed, but I also think we need to make sure we'll be able to field a solid offense in 2012. Lots of things could happen between now and then obviously.

Trading for Cliff Lee or Halladay would be playing for next season. Halladay would be allowed to demand a trade after this season. He is allowed to do that and if he has reservations about coming to Milwaukee chances are he will in fact do just that. I personally want nothing to do with a guy like Halladay unless the offer is just too good to pass. This division race is far from over and with the team we have now we could do it. I would like to see the Brewers switch things up a bit (ie call up Cody) in order to get some new life on this team and move forward. The Brewers really, really need Bush to be healthy and back to his old self ASAP.

The Brewers offense in 2011 can include Weeks, Gamel, Braun, Fielder, McGehee, and Hart. Thats a good offense. How does that differ all that much from this year though? I don't know if I'd bank on Weeks, McGehee, and Hart. I do believe Gamel will be fine, but again we don't know that for sure. I agree that it would be easier to find a capable SS (not replace Escobar because I don't know how easy it will be able to do that if he's able to be a leadoff type guy), but the offense might need tweaking also. Again, X I do agree with you that we're not going to become the Pirates. We do have a plan, but it'd be nice to add more players to that plan 3 years from now besides just Braun and Yo.

No that was my point- I think that description can apply to either one. What? That's not accurate at all. A guy with bad plate discipline will not do well as a PH. They pretty much have the same OBP except one hasn't started hitting yet. To me, that means Cole would be the better option. They are not the same player. I'm not saying that makes Cole awesome or anything. Yes, there have. Now point me to ONE that said we gave up a "bad prospect" as you claimed. THAT'S the issue I had with your post. No needs for the caps. I also said 'bad' was a stretch, but to not call him a top prospect may not be true. I stated that in my previous post. I just think that feeling that Cole is a 'throw-in' or something like that (hope that's better) isn't accurate compared to many Brewers propects lists by various publications. I don't see the difference between 'throw-in/afterthough/bad'...it's somewhat the same IMO because none of those players will make it to the bigs if those are factual statements. Again, I agree- I just think that they're the exact opposite as you do. It's a matter of opinion, not fact. That's fine. Your opinion though is just different than almost any scout in baseball and also the folks here that do the Power 50. There's nothing wrong with that. Hopefully you don't use it as fact that Katin is a superior player when almost everyone does not find that to be true. Again, I wish Katin the best, but you can't always teach plate discipline. That's a major flaw and Cole has his own flaws as well. Cole Gillespie had major shoulder surgery that's destroyed his throwing arm and made him a huge liability in the field, by the way. He can still play LF. His shoulder will most likely get better over time, but you are right. It won't be where it was and he probably can't play RF and slim chance to play CF. That doesn't mean he doesn't have value and again I think his shoulder will improve a bit over time to at least be slightly below average. It's not terrible right now either by the way, but you wouldn't want to put him in RF or CF. If he was hitting better, it'd be a non-issue for me, but until/if that happens it's no doubt a concern. I assure you that isn't the case. I just think you're completely wrong here. That's your opinion. I also don't think it's cool to say 'the same posters...etc....etc'. I don't really think you need to attempt to publicly call out people, but at the same time not drop names. People are entitled to their own opinion or at least that's what I thought was the case. I can see why people would be excited or bummed, but I do fail to see how it can be 100% right or wrong either way. Maybe Lopez helps the Brewers and the guy we draft one day is a top prospect...maybe Cole or Mercedes become solid MLB players. I don't think anyone here knows that answer.

And you expect more than that out of Gillespie? I just don't see it. Sorry if I wasn't clear...that was in regard to Katin not Gillespie. No one said "bad prospect", that's a completely blatant exaggeration. And even though his stock was higher a couple of years ago, prospects do fade. Brad Nelson was #2 on the Power 50 a few years ago. Just because a guy was a solid prospect then doesn't mean he remains one now while in the midst of a poor season in AAA and is getting older. There's been posts that have said folks were glad we didn't give up a top prospect. He was top 10 in the organization within a year and nearly top 5. I don't see how one of the best farm systems having a player ranked that high isn't a 'top prospect'. If that doesn't qualify for 'top prospect' status then we're talking top in baseball...not on the Brewers and that is fine. I just feel some aren't valuing Cole and I'm not sure why. Comparing Cole to Katin as a prospect is also a completely blatant exaggeration. It's not even close. Maybe I was wrong in 'bad prospect', but I feel he was greatly undervalued in several posts in this thread. Maybe he was overvalued by some? I don't know. I also don't know the value Cole had at the time of the trade, but the Brewers either botched not trading him when his value was higher last year or simply should've let this year play out with him. He's a better player than his numbers indicate this year. His year in Huntsville last year would've put him on the map in a big way for most organizations, but with LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar, Salome, etc. there last year he went under the radar a bit. ....or tells you how much value Gillespie really had. ...or tells you how much value Lopez really had. I realize you'll pick apart my posts here and at LL.net. I've come to expect it. You can bring up Brad Nelson (major hand injury by the way that you don't mention), bring up how Cole is has lost so much value in less than a year (which is not true...look up his stats last year), etc. You don't agree with me and that's fine. I'll say it again though...if Cole puts up those numbers last year in almost any other organization he's a top 5 prospect.

Someone who has a chance of starting and making an impact on the club this year or next (or a very low level prospect with some crazy combination of raw tools). As been said before in this thread, Cole doesn't even have the arm to play the outfield. He's also not hitting in AAA this year. He's 25. The Diamondbacks apparently consider him no better than a four of fifth OF. If it looks like a second-tier prospect and quacks like a second tier prospect... 75 games in AAA tells you all that? He had a pretty darn good year in AA last year. I know he's a little bit older and such, but I don't think you can look at age and then minor league level and always reach the same conclusion. I don't think scouts feel Cole doesn't have the arm to play OF. He'll probably be limited to LF. I think if you feel he's not a good prospect Power 50 rankings have been wrong for awhile around here. How many top prospects do the Brewers have now? 2? If that's your answer, then I guess I somewhat see your point. If not, I don't get what top is. I'm taking it the way you posted that a top prospect is a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. If that's what you mean, then Cole is not that.

It's not like we traded a top prospect to get him. What is considered a top prospect? I fail to see how a team ranked usually fairly high the past few years in farm system rankings can give up a player a year ago that almost cracked the top 5 prospect list and has had the injury bug gave up a 'bad prospect'. That's just not true IMO. I'm not knocking on Lopez and I don't think too many are. i think most feel that it wasn't a huge position of weakness. Will it help? Sure, but I don't know how big of an impact it will have. Also, the fact that he plays LF and Braun does is meaningless. If we signed JJ to an extension and give up Escobar in a deal, is it fine since Escobar was blocked anyway? Of course not. Cole isn't that good, but you see my point. There's nothing wrong with having multiple guys in the minors that can play multiple positions. If Lopez makes a big difference and our pick (assuming we get one) is one day a top 10 prospect in the organization...then the trade makes more sense. I would've thought we could've gotten Davis for Cole, but that must tell you what we'd have to give up to get him.

I am moving to Nashville tommorow, and I know there are a good number of people from Nashville on this site because of the sounds. Is there anything I should know about Nashville, I have never actually been there before. Also what are some of the best places to go for a drink or whatever down there? Also are there any strange laws that I need to know about Where are you moving in Nashville?

I agree with you X. Macha continues to confuse me. I haven't been impressed at all, but again I don't put a ton of weight in managers in the game of baseball. The 'gut feeling' he tends to work with just doesn't work all the time. I'd be fine with calling up Cody. I think that's the right move. I would also like to see Dillard up, but only in the bullpen. The starting experience was a bad idea by the Brewers and his numbers indicate that. I can't believe he's already thrown so many innings and compared to last year I do worry he's going to burn out. He's already thrown 33 more innings this year than last year. Sooner or later we have to decide that he's either moving to the bullpen so he can help the big league team or he's going to wear down in Nashville. Did anyone hear the blurb about Brian Anderson talking to Gamel before he left for Nashville during the game last night. According to BA Gamel was confident that he would be back in Milwaukee shortly, as in prior to September call ups. Does Gamel know something about trades in the talks or am i reading way to much into the comments and Gamels just exuding confidence. I wouldn't read too much into it. I highly doubt DM has shared anything with Gamel except if a trade happens you'll be back up. There's just not going to be playing time for him unless something really crazy happens. If JJ gets traded, I don't see how Gamel would play all that much and Heether would be the guy to call up since he can play multiple positions. If worst comes to worst for Mat, he's back up in Milwaukee in a little more than a month. I honestly do feel bad for any Brewer that has to bounce from Milwaukee to Nashville even once...it's night and day.

I think he'll be in Milwaukee yet this year, so to each his own, I guess. I'm not saying he'll never say a Milwaukee uniform, but he isn't on the 40-man so that could present its own problems going forward. I like Katin and I've seen him play. He very well good succeed he just has to have plate discipline. There are plenty of guys who have repeated AAA and put up big-time power numbers...if Katin can develop some discipline to go along with that he may have a shot to start in the bigs. If he can't, he may struggle like Brad Nelson to be anything but a PH and we know how difficult that can be. I still would rather see Heether in Milwaukee before Katin just because Heether can play anywhere in the field and has some plate discipline. Katin would be a nice surprise for next year and it'd be a nice cheap bench option if his plate discipline comes around.

Gillespie's is only 17 points above Katin's. Gillespie's having a pretty bad overall year at AAA- .242/.332/.424, while Katin is at .270/.315/.564. Katin has some upside if his recent plate discipline is for real. I don't think really any baseball experts or scouts would put Katin ahead of Gillespie. Cole's OBP is .100 points higher than hsi BA...imagine if he was actually hitting? Katin is still going to take time to develop. With a obp driven by BA and a lot of strikeouts, he doesn't project well right now IMO.

Over Braun or Hart? You're sure you're not thinking of the chatter about Katin (a much better OF prospect)? If people have been confusing Gillespie with Katin, that certainly makes the negativity about the trade make more sense... I'll clarify...last year his name was mentioned as a start in 2010 depending on what happens in the OF with Hart and Cam...and maybe moving Braun to RF. I'm pretty sure it was Cole and Cole has much more value than Katin right now and is a better prospect right now. Katin doesn't walk at all. Cole has also dealt with a lot of injuries so I'm not sure if his performance this year (or lack of) is a good indication. PF...Katin is putting up good numbers, but take a look at his on base and such...it's pretty bad. Hopefully he gets there, but Cole > Katin IMO. And again...the talk a year ago was Cole in the OF in 2010 if Hart was traded or Cam leaves. It's also not like it'd be difficult to match what Hart is doing now IMO. PF - Not to be a jerk, but check out Cole's rankings in the top 50 power rankings. I think people are really selling him short. He was number 6 just over a year ago...and 7th less than a year ago. I know it's not a fair comparison, but check out who is #7 today. Cole is better than what he's getting credit for in this thread IMO...at least by some. Katin is not anywhere near the prospect Cole is...that's not to say that can't change. I couldn't have cared less if they gave up Katin in the deal (and I do like Katin...he just wouldn't be a good fit on this team), but I doubt Arizona takes that deal.

I assure you that this isn't the case. He, like myself, is probably just stunned by all the hand-wringing over getting a useful player (who's level of usefulness is certainly up for debate) and a possible sandwich pick for next to nothing. I think Lopez is a fine player to have on the team. I just don't know how many more games the Brewers win compared to having an internal guy, Gamel stay up in his current role, etc. And there aren't any guarantees about who we potentially pick. They may never be as good as Cole. It's not like Cole is a bad prospect. And I agree though with what other posters have said...maybe this was the best they could do? If it was, they should've made this deal 2 months ago (if it was on the table). Hopefully this is the first move that will lead to another move. We're still giving up prospects for a potential rental that most likely won't be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. I just want to be clear that I'm not knocking Lopez...it's just not the type of trade that I get overly excited about since there was talk around here within the past year or so that Gillespie would be starting in Milwaukee next year IIRC.

Sportscenter is unbearable to watch, for every hour you get about 15 mins commercials Isn't that about the average for every hour on television? I respect your opinion. I just don't have big issues with ESPN that some here seem to have. If I watch the first ten minutes or so, I usually get all the news I need. I guess I just don't mind the things some here are complaining about. Baseball will never get the coverage that NFL does just because NFL >>> MLB in terms of a fan base. I know this can be frustrating, but ESPN plays to casual fans and it's not for extreme fans. There's a much greater population of casual sports fan than die hard baseball fans. I honestly don't know what people expect...every show catered to their individual wants? Again, the 'Who's Now' stuff sucks, but it's filler. Maybe they figure more people would rather debate that than see highlights of baseball games? I don't know, but I'm assuming there's some reason for it.

From May 22 to June 21st Gamel had played in 27 games - in 19 of those he had 3 or more plate appearances. 18 hits in 75 at bats, 28 k's, 7 walks and 1 HR. Sure that isn't every day, but that is playing quite a bit and he simply did not perform. I just don't buy into the theory that if he got an extra 25 AB's during that month long stretch, that he would have hit better. Macha gave him his shot, he put up very poor numbers...... as I said before, I like Gamel as much as the next guy and have very high hopes for him - but it just wasn't working. How is having 2.5 bats a game even anywhere near regular playing time? I would also check the stats based on what position he played (DH/PH vs. 3B). I just don't see how one can put so much negative weight on such a small sample when its the guy's real first taste of the majors. If he wasn't going to play everyday, he should be in AAA and now he is. His K rate is so out of wack with his minor league numbers that I have a very, very hard time believing that would continue with regular playing time.

The Jimmy V award was the only part worth watching this year. I got suckered into watching it because last year it was actually pretty entertaining- in my opinion at least. This year the comedy bits were not very funny. I didn't think it was that funny either. I thought Timberlake was pretty hilarious last year. I am completely shocked that neither the Patriots, Yankees, or Red Sox were somehow made nominees as Team of the Year. Kind of hard to do if you don't win a championship. I won't address the rest of your post because it's your opinion (though I don't quite get why people get offended and shout that something is "condescending" if they don't agree with it). However, I saw multiple times, reports on the tee-shirt A-Rod's wife wore to games and plenty of press on his relationship with Madonna. Heck, I also know that Derek Jeter has been dating Kate Hudson. Why do I know these things? ESPN. I just don't see it as being true IMO. If you watch something for an hour and 30 seconds is on something related to whatever you're talking about...what's the big deal? For whatever reason, some people here (and I'm sure in general) seem to get bent out of shape/upset at ESPN for a few segments that aren't about small market teams and focus on stars on major markets....what's wrong with that? I guess I don't focus on the things I don't like about ESPN as much as I do focus on the things I do like. It's not like they sit and gossip for an hour about who is dating who, but some posts in this thread would lead you to believe that. It's just not true....at all. Again, if you tune into Mike and Mike in the morning 'Greenie' must be one of the biggest national media guys that is in Braun's fan club. He loves the guy, hasn't talked about who he's dating, etc...is that hard to handle for Brewers fans? IMO calling ESPN or something a man's people magazine is condescending. It's so far from the truth. Who cares if they make comments here and there about a superstar's personal life. I honestly don't recall much of that at all, but again I try not to focus on things I don't care about.

No, but there is a glut of infielders and very little on the horizon for the OF. Especially if Hart is traded. But lots of options to play 3B. McGehee, Lopez, Hardy, Counsell, Hall (sorry), Heether, etc. I'd imagine only one of those is a 'lock' to be on the team next year -- McGehee. I don't see Gamel being moved for any reason off of 3B at this point. There is too much unknown about next year. Also, I think some people are failing to realize how not playing everyday has a negative impact on hitting. Taking BP is a lot different than facing live MLB pitching. I would have to imagine the more consistent a player sees new MLB pitching for the first time...the better the results. It doesn't work the other way around. Again, I'm fine with Gamel going down, but to me his at-bats didn't 'prove' he's bad or not ready. He's probably not an ideal bench player and he did prove to a certain degree he can handle MLB pitching. He obviously does have some items to work on though in order to reach his potential...much like other prospects.

Just amazing comments to me. I didn't like Yost, but at least he didn't waste our top prospects on the bench. Agreed. I've had enough of Macha. He might do alright on this team if this was a veteran team that really wouldn't have to rely on prospects the next few years...that doesn't appear to be the case. It's like Melvin will be forced to include more and more veterans on this team in order to keep Macha happy. It makes you kind of second guess why they released Nelson and traded TGJR (I don't want to get into a debate about either of those moves) and got more 'veteran like' with Gerut and Cat.

ESPN has become People Magazine for men. I find that to be a stretch and somewhat condescending. It's fine if you don't like it. Some of the points you bring up are really just exaggerating separate incidents. I've heard arbitration explained a few times on ESPN FWIW. In my opinion, they really don't cover who A-Rod is dating at all. I've never really seen that on ESPN or if something was said it was one line and they moved on. I personally find the morning SportsCenter's somewhat more old school ESPN with more sports covering and less 'stories'. Mike and Mike are entertainment. There isn't always enough in sports to talk about...especially in the summer since baseball is not very popular among the average sports fan in certain parts of the country. You need 'filler' and I can totally understand why someone doesn't like their radio show. To each their own.

Obviously Gamel wasn't a solution to Macha. Given that, this trade is absolutely a necessity. Both McGehee and Counsell are nursing bad knees. Bill Hall is just plain terrible. Lopez is a proven commodity. Adam Heether is not. That no one was posting about the need for someone like Lopez, means nothing about whether or not the deal should've been done. Neither one of the guys given up were integral to the future of the franchise. You are correct, they do have value. They netted the team a proven major league starting SS/2b that can switch-hit and is a leadoff hitter. He's no great of the game, but he makes sense given the team's situation. Doesn't this speak volumes about Macha then? What if he doesn't feel like starting a certain pitcher? Should we just trade for one? I hope this isn't an indication that Macha and Melvin aren't on the same page. I'm not comparing Gillespie to LaPorta, but we need to remember that just because a prospect doesn't fit in the Brewers plans doesn't mean he won't fit in another team's plans. Was this the most we could get for him? I don't think anyone here knows that answer, but just because he didn't fit in Milwaukee does not mean that he didn't have value. LaPorta wouldn't be starting in Milwaukee this year...does that mean he didn't have any value?

Gamel is probably the better option, but for whatever reason, the Brewers aren't convinced that he's ready. If that's the case, he should be playing everyday in AAA, as you have advocated many times here on this very forum. The other two can't really be counted on- yes, they are potential options, but we don't have much of an idea as to how they'll actually perform. With Lopez, you have a pretty good idea of a baseline. I have wanted Gamel in AAA...a trade wasn't needed to make it happen. Gamel going to AAA is not part of this trade...don't give the trade credit for that. Gamel should've been sent down a long, long, long time ago...a trade wasn't needed. Playing him everyday. This trade has little to do with Gamel going down. I think people are really missing some points here. How is Lopez going to make this team better this year? How many more wins is this trade worth? It's not many if any. Again, if another trade is made...it's different. We gave up players for options we already had internally. I didn't really see too many posts lately about the need for another IF on the MLB squad. Lopez isn't bad or anything...if Counsell was hurt...it'd make sense. I would've much rather given Heether a shot...not cause he's cheap or anything, but because obviously the guys we traded away had value. The posts stating we didn't need them are 100% false. Milwaukee may not have needed them, but obviously they had trade value. I just wish we would've traded them for a position that would make an impact on the team this year. There are no guarantees about even getting a pick or that pick even making it past AA. I will say if another trade isn't made, the Brewers have really botched this year on a few levels. It's about time to put Macha on the hot seat. A trade like this is an indication that they are 'going for it'...so let's start holding Macha accountable like Yost was always held around here.

No, but it's in serious danger there because of the injuries to McGehee and Counsell that seem to be lingering. And Craig simply can't play this much and be expected to be useful later in the season. Well what about Gamel, Heether, the Hurricane? Lopez isn't that great when there are options in-house. Quick! Insert the name of someone at AAA that is almost certainly cheaper than Lopez! Stop. You have the same opinion that prospects are too valued here. We get it. The fact is 2B and 3B isn't an issue. It just isn't. If Gillespie has value, why not use that for something to help the team? That's what I still don't get. This deal doesn't make the Brewers that much better. Sure rest Counsell, Casey, etc...we already had that option with a player with a better OPS. It's not about being cheaper...it's about not giving up players to get a player that most likely isn't going to match what internal options can. I don't think the cheap factor comes in at all when a rental trade is made. I'd rather rent a pitcher than an IF that isn't as good of a hitter compared to what we already have...that's just me though.

The Seattle Times had a link this morning saying not to expect him in the lineup...and this mariners.mlb.com link kind of backs that up. I choose to believe that Russell realized I was in attendance and willed himself to have a 3TO day. Nice. I read your post earlier today about him sitting out and I felt bad for you since you were at the game. 3TO says no to beat writers.