JJHardy7

For those worried about losing Gillespie, dont. I could rattle off at least 5 guys in the system that can put up his production and probably be better outfielders. Heck there are two from this years draft, with one being an undrafted free agent. Please rattle them off that are ready for AAA and can 'net' Lopez. I'm not knocking on Lopez...I'd rather trade Gillespie for a guy that we actually need on the team. 2B and 3B has not been a weakness and I could rattle off some obvious answers to cure any 'weakness' if there is one. A trade was not needed at all to address this. Gillespie may never have had a future in Milwaukee...that doesn't mean any trade he is in is 'fine'. You try to develop guys for the bigs and/or use them in trades. I agree a ton with what trwi7 and ftj. The only way this trade makes sense is if there is another deal coming. I'd even argue we have bigger needs in terms of adding a backup OF before another IF. Lopez simply doesn't fit a need unless Hardy is going to be traded. The Brewers top prospect couldn't even get in the lineup to help the 'problem'. This seems very strange to me...I get the feeling another deal will be made soon.

JJHardy7, you were just saying the Brewers should send Gamel down if he won't play every day. This trade accomplishes this. Also, many were saying Counsell couldn't last a whole year starting at 2B, because of his knee issues. With this trade, this won't be an issue. Really, this trade takes care of much of what was being complained about. Lopez isn't a world beater, but for half a season he will be a nice addition. I did say that, but we didn't need to give up something for that to happen. Counsell maybe won't last the whole year...you have Gamel, Heether, and the Hurricane. This team isn't losing because of 2B and 3B. That's my point. It's not a knock on Lopez...it just doesn't make the team better IMO. There are much bigger needs than creating depth where IMO there is already depth at the MLB and AAA level. And again, I wanted Gamel to play everyday...I'd rather have called up Heether than give up anything for a guy that might get us a sandwich pick who has no guarantee in terms of how good the player will be. This trade makes little sense IMO unless it has been made because another trade is going to be made. Then is makes a lot more sense.

So he wasn't out with an injury?

I'm not a huge fan of the trade. It doesn't do anything. It's sad when most comments are 'well now Mat can play AAA everyday'. He could've anyways. Just call up Heether. Bad trade IMO since we didn't really need to fill this position at all. This deal doesn't do a thing to help the Brewers chances IMO. It's not like Cole sucks or anything...the pick is nice, but Cole seems to be close to contributing. A draft pick may never make it that far. You could say 2B and 3B have not been our weakness the last few months. How does this help the team? And no...the pick doesn't guarantee the player will be better than Cole. That is ridiculous to say. A high pick doesn't guarantee anything.

For me, it was when ESPN did that reoccurring "Who's NOW" segment that I bowed out. Debating who is the hottest (most Popular???) athlete of today is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever had the misfortune of witnessing. And they did it with straight faces. I admit I watch ESPN for SportsCenter at night and listen to Mike and Mike in the morning. I enjoy it. The 'Who's Now' thing was lame, but I think it's expected. You simply have 'dead' times in sports. Right now is a prime example. I love baseball, but let's face it...football is easily the most popular out of the major sports. I have a lot of friends that don't care at all about baseball and for teams that are out of the race now it's lost interest. I think ESPN struggles to fill this time and of course some refer to the 'bias' ESPN has, but I've never felt that was true. You're going to target your product towards your major population. Milwaukee isn't the major population. The coasts are and so is Chicago. It has it's flaws no doubt, but there really isn't any competition out there. Also, FWIW ESPN has really been marketing Braun in a variety of their shows. It's not like they don't discussion Milwaukee...there just usually isn't much to discuss that would be appealing for a national audience. Hopefully that continues to change.

I like the ESPY's and have no problem with it. I don't really care who 'wins'. I think it's all for a good cause and it's cool to get everyone together. Go look at Jimmy V's speech and after that the ESPY's can go on forever as far as I'm concerned. It's entertainment.

I me it is dumb and really just makes no sense to want to trade Prince after this season or even now. Why? That the huge question to me. Well...do you let him walk after 2011 and hope for picks, extend him to a huge deal, or trade him for prospects? You'll have to do one of the three. It's really that simple. If you want to give him a huge extension, that's fine, but it's clear a decision one way or another will need to be made. Prince is having a fine season and if you choose to trade him you'll be better off trading him when he's playing as well as he's capable of rather than waiting and he maybe has an off year, regresses (not saying he will), or gets hurt. I think it's a very valid question and remains until a decision is made one way or another. Nobody here (as far as I can tell) is saying we have a replacement. There's not a clear answer to this, but what is clear is that we would obviously hope to improve other spots in the organization (ie starting pitching).

I'm sort of confused by Melvin, he offered money to the wrong players, got burned, and then seemed reluctant to jump back into the fire. Hopefully we don't have any more Helms, Turnbows, Clarks... we should have players with significantly more talent and upside, so if they succeed I'd like him to aggressively lock up those players instead of overpaying for pitching in the bullpen and rotation. What about Riske? I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think people need to drop the three contracts you mentioned. It wasn't the difference in anything important since the contracts were pretty small. If we're an $80 million payroll, you can afford misses to the extent you mention. It shouldn't even be an issue. You could combine all those deals and they probably don't equal Hall's deal. I think times have changed. I do agree with you that it is important to not only develop studs, but also #5 type starters. I think the Suppan contract is the biggest issue because based on production vs. what you could develop that's a lot of lost money. Helms and Clark had decent to good years in Milwaukee and Turnbow as an all-star. I'd do all those deals again (maybe not Helms) just because they were very low risk if you consider the actual money spent.

Considering the Brewers have control over him through 2011, I don't see how it's even a discussion until the 2010 offseason considering the Brewers are currently within their financial "window" to win, now. I just want to make sure that I was clear...I'm not saying they should put him on the block. I am saying that if a great offer was made for him I'd consider it and do it if the price was right. I'm not saying the Brewers should absolutely trade him now. The fact is until he is signed long-term there will be discussions like this for Prince and other players in his situation.

I still don't think you can just dismiss his weight long-term. He's a great hitter and I don't doubt that one bit. I do wonder though how long of a contract he wants. Would you sign him to an 8-year deal? I don't think I would due to his weight and also his height. I really do like Prince, but I just see a large market team offering him 8-years $100 million +. I just don't feel comfortable with that. It's not a knock on him directly, but I can't think off too many guys with his stature that are successful long-term. That's not to say Prince can't do that. I just feel more comfortable with a guy of Braun's stature signed long-term than I do with a guy like Prince. I also agree on the MVP numbers stuff. His value is pretty high now. I'd still be willing to move him if the right deal came along. I simply wouldn't trade him for nothing since he's one of the best hitters in the league right now and the team that gets him would have a decent amount of service time left with him.

Werth only got picked because he's a Phillie in my opinion. The perks of having your manager manage the all-star game. I really don't see anything wrong with it.

His salary bought him a lot of time and opportunites, but Melvin has proven he will eat the salary (see Turnbow.) How much did the Brewers actually eat on Turnbow? Hall is making a lot more $$$ than Turnbow ever did. I bet Hall is making more this year than Turnbow's entire last deal was for. IIRC we didn't eat much of Turnbow's contract. At this point, releasing Hall would easily be throwing $10 million + away (Not that he's worth it...it's been posted multiple times that 'Melvin has done this before'...when in reality I don't think he has at all if you actually consider the dollar amounts).

It is to early to count them as any sort of minor league depth...they have either not started playing yet or just started. The prospects we gave up had a much better chance of making the majors than 2 compensation picks. What prospect we gave up last year would be helping this team right now? Also, I understand your prospect love TheCrew07 and I love prospects too...I think it's important to mention in this discussion because CC wasn't just a rental...he brought back two fairly high picks. Will they pan out? We don't know and we also don't know if the prospects we gave up would pan out. I do agree that you'd like to have some balance in the minors and don't want to keep getting guys to AAA and then trading them and getting picks in the next draft. That puts the system out of balance at times.

I said this many times last year and early this year, but it does not matter that we did not trade away pitching prospects. The issue is we gave away prospects (trading chips) that we no longer have. Those "trading chips" could have been used to get a young pitcher...instead of a rent-a-player. We are at a point with position players where we really can't afford to trade away prospects without creating a hole somewhere. That is why it was nice to have Laporta, because we could use him to trade for a position we could have used long term...but we no longer have that luxery. We do have two players that we just drafted from that trade though...

I don't know why the assumption would be that Narveson would be DFAed. He's one of the few lefty relievers on the 40 man. I think it's more likely that Smith gets sent down. I might be wrong on this, but isn't the 40-man full? If you simply send down Smith (or Gamel), you'll have to remove someone from the 40-man in order to call up Heether. My guess it'd be Joe Koshansky like someone else mentioned. I do get the feeling though that the Brewers won't call up Heether though.

I'm not saying he can't play 3B its that coaches seem to believe he can't handle 3B. He wouldn't be removed constantly otherwise. He's not even playing 3B all that much the past few weeks. I do agree with you though that there seems to be some reason or another for it. It very well could be defense, but I guess I don't know if it's that. It seems to be a big reach given that he's been in the bigs now almost two straight months, but I hope there is some reason as to why he's not playing.

@ endaround By waiting until June they got Gamel for another year. Two months of a Lamb/Hall platoon vs two months of Gamel as a rookie is nothing. The reason Weeks' injury was important is because they wanted to fill in for his offense. They had no idea that Counsell would continue to hit or that McGehee would go against all prior history and hit like Chase Utley. Not sure how you can get upset about this. The actually called Gamel up in mid-May IIRC. I've never said they should or shouldn't have waited. I honestly don't care about that at all. The reason why one can be upset is because Counsell and McGehee are not the number one prospect in the organization. It's pretty simple really IMO. Keep those two at 2B if you want...they've done well this year. There's 3B...put Gamel there. If you realize you made a mistake, correct it. 11 at-bats in 11 games is flat out wrong for the number one hitting prospect in an organization and one of the best prospects in all of baseball. Counsell is probably playing his last year in baseball or maybe one more...he admits if he plays everyday the team won't do wel. McGehee is playing well, but Weeks is out. So 2B is wide open, correct? You also assume that Counsell will continue to hit at this rate all year and go against all of his career numbers? You're more a numbers guy than I am, but to me that's not going to happen. Also, this isn't Gamel vs. Counsell or McGehee to begin with. Why is Hall starting over Gamel? That's the main question IMO. If you want to bank on Counsell and McGehee all year, that's fine. I just wouldn't waste a #1 prospect on the bench, but that's just me. If he can't start in Milwaukee, send him to AAA. I'm not saying 'Gamel must start'. I think he should, but if he doesn't he should be in AAA. I am saying Gamel shouldn't be riding the bench. That makes zero sense. It's the reason why there should be a 'Fire Macha thread' or whatever garbage there was about Yost. Macha/Brewers have done an absolute terrible job with Gamel. Bring him up...play him once in awhile...and send him back down...why? Because 3B is so solid in Milwaukee that he can't start? Talk about ruining a player's confidence by not having a plan that makes any sense. Why is Hall playing more than Gamel? Why is Gamel even in Milwaukee? Those questions don't have any answers. Macha is abusing our best young pitcher in an organization that lacks quality young pitchers at the high level of the minors and is misusing our best prospect...why does he get a pass?

Second line of his post: First it was to platoon Lamb and Hall until Gamel proved himself in AAA What? There's no way you bank on Lamb and Hall and have that relate to Gamel. If that's the case, this franchise has no clue what they're doing. I support most of what the Brewers have done and continue to do, but if you're honestly telling me that Lamb and Hall could keep 3B warm for Gamel...I'm not buying that at all. I'm also in the minority that Weeks injury should've had little to do with Gamel. Gamel doesn't play 3B. The Brewers have a few guys that can move around...you don't call up a guy that plays one spot to help that out unless you play him there. It's an easy excuse. The Brewers 'plan' here has led to Lamb not making the team (not a shock) and Hall stinking (not a shock). How is that a plan? That plan never happened...the same reason why that plan failed is why Gamel should be starting everyday at 3B, play Casey at 2B, and use Counsell as the super utility guy. That'd be fine in my book. Just because you have a 'plan' doesn't mean it makes any sense...the way this has all gone down Mat should've never been called up. That's not a knock on him...it's just the fact that this whole situation was botched. 11 at-bats in 11 games. I just don't see how that helps out Mat at all or the Brewers. I'm not saying Mat has to start everyday...I am saying it's a pretty dumb idea to give him an at-bat a day for nearly the past two weeks. I don't think this is the case at all. The one whose future has been 'clouded' to me at this point is Rickie Weeks. The Brewers still don't have a more talented or better option at 3B than Gamel. And quite frankly I think it'd be a tragic mistake to move that bat off 3B. Now, if Gamel didn't show the ability to be a plus defender at 3B, I would feel differently... or if the organization had anyone even remotely close to Mat's talent at 3B. 100% agreed. Gamel doesn't suck and he's not a slouch. I think some Brewers fans that don't follow minor league baseball are making a big mistake. Gamel is legit. He's not Braun, but IMO he's not a world a way from him. In other words, he's between Braun and Hardy IMO. Gamel has the range and the arm to be a pretty good defender. I do hope that he's getting a ton of extra work in Milwaukee like some claim here. There's no proof to that as far as I know. He was getting a ton of work in Nashville from what I saw. I do think the infield situation will be very interesting. 3B, SS and 2B are all up in the air next year in terms of who is playing there. I do think the organization will bite the bullet on Hall in the off-season. There is not a good reason why he's on the team if he's starting on a somewhat regular basis. I'm not one to bash on a player, but Hall just flat out isn't good enough to be playing on this team. I don't mind him being a bench option, but there's no way he should see regular time IMO. Starting Hall over Gamel would lead to a ton of Yost threads...Macha gets a pass from some strange reason.

The whole plan was easy to see. First it was to platoon Lamb and Hall until Gamel proved himself in AAA and then he would be up in June and Lamb cut. Likely thats why Branyan was basically handed off to Seattle. Then Lamb showed himself to be done so McGehee got the job. Not a big deal since McGehee still had options and he would just be sent down when Gamel was ready. Then Weeks got hurt. Gamel came up but McGehee couldn't go down because he was need at 2B. Then McGehee started to hit. So the Brewers were stuck to a degree. How does that 'plan' have anything to do with Gamel? That sounds more like the Brewers botched the Gamel situation. There are other options than Gamel at AAA that can play multiple infield positions. Heether makes a lot more sense right now than Gamel does since he can play more positions. This isn't a knock on Mat. It's just the fact that Gamel can't find his way into games right now and that's not how you treat your best prospect...at all. This in no way has helped Mat develop as a hitter. We can debate fielding, but it's clear sitting in the bench will not help him hit a baseball. The way the Brewers are treating Gamel they may as well call up Escobar to play SS and 2B a few times a week...it'd really be the same thing. There is no way Bill Hall should ever start over Mat Gamel. That is flat out wrong and again...if Hall didn't make the big bucks it wouldn't happen. I get the feeling that Macha is the reason why this is happening. Hall should be the one backing Gamel up. EDIT - Just so we're all clear about playing time...Mat has 11 plate appearances in the past 11 games (that's if my last quick search was right). That's not playing time...that's bench time.

The MLB could set up the draft like the NBA where the team pays an X amount of money to the team the player they drafted and the player pays the rest. Of course the MLBPA would never agree to that. Plus you would still have the same things happening now. The smaller market teams wouldn't draft those players b/c the price would be to high along with the risk. I do agree that the Latin American players need to be entering the draft though. Or maybe they should incorporat a DiceK signing into the draft. The BoSox signed a foreign player and that counts as their first round pick. That would allow the rich teams to get those MLB ready players and allow the poorer teams better picks (because Boston pick would just be skipped). It's not a total evening of the playing field, but it helps. I like both of these points. I think it would be difficult to place a pick on signing any player. Maybe a dollar amount equals a certain round? The only idea I have is that all players could be in the draft. You could have all players declare for the draft and if they don't 'declare' they can't play in that year and/or the year after. If there was an amazing Japanese player that teams would love to have...the team with the #1 pick takes that player and then trades the rights (I know that's not how it works now...but they should also change some of the trade rules). I guess you could also allow teams to trade draft picks and if a team like the Red Sox want an expensive international player they could give up players for the pick.

Maybe I just have a different perspective this season, but last year it seemed like I could come up with deals everywhere, this season I'm coming up empty. I see your point. I guess my view of the entire situation has changed this year. Before the year and early on I was against trading Hardy because Escobar's bat was still somewhat of an unknown. To a degree, it still is since he's been in AAA all year. I guess I'm saying now I'd made the deal happen. I just don't think we'll be able to get in the playoffs unless we get pitching somehow. Maybe Parra comes back? Bush pitches like he can? There are internal things that can happen, but I tend to think we'll need to look outside the organization. I do worry that if the Cubs and Cards get healthy we'll be on the outside looking in. We've had our setbacks with injuries, but I wouldn't trade spots with the Cubs or Cards when it comes to injuries. Its also likely the big reason why Gamel isn't getting palying time. If he played, we might know whether or not that's a true statement. He'll stick at 3B, but again until he can actually play we don't know 100%.

So who will be in the derby? I'd guess that they both won't be in it...

Would the Brewers send him down to Nashville and then send him to BC over the ASB to get a few more games in, or would they think that a couple days vacation would do him some good? I'd like to see that. I doubt it would happen though given they haven't been too worried about playing time. Maybe they send him down and just give him a break? Robin19...I like your analysis here. I think it's important to remember that Gamel isn't a fringe minor leaguer or AAAA like Nelson maybe is. He's one of the best prospects in baseball. I can't think of too many top prospects that have gotten better by being on the bench and/or not getting regular playing time. The plan could easily have been to send Gamel down last week and then Counsell's knee acted up and McGehee had the minor injury so they kept him up as insurance. That would make sense given how things ended up playing out, assuming they do send him down next week at least. That's fine and all, but what was the original plan? He was called up too early and they've left him in Milwaukee too long. If they want an insurance type guy, Heether would be the guy to go with. I'm not sure how well he'll do...but he's done all you can ask and more. I'd much rather have him in Milwaukee given the limited playing time since Heether can field multiple positions. That makes the most sense to me.

Doug Melvin isn't a moron, and neither is Ken Macha. I'm sure this is all very much on both of their minds, and I'm sure they will make a decision soon to get Gamel more playing time. But a couple weeks of sporadic playing time for a prospect isn't the end of the world...he's not going to magically transform into Sean Berry just because he didn't start today. I don't think anyone is Melving a moron...it's just strange to have one of the best prospects in all of baseball sitting on the bench. Gamel is good...he's really good. He might not be Braun or Fielder, but I also don't think he's just going to be an average player. Let's also forget the fact that 'Gamel has been playing a lot'. He hasn't. That's not true. He should've only been up for the AL road games and that's it. There's no point in wasting service time right now. The most important thing here is we've wasted development time for Gamel. Folks need to remember there's less than two months (with a few playoff games) for Nashville. I doubt the Brewers call Gamel up in September and start him everyday. Gamel has lost quite a bit of development time and he's at a pretty critical age. This situation isn'r all that difficult by any means...if you're going to call one of the best propects in baseball you play him or keep in him in AAA. I can understand him being a PH during games between the AL road games, but Gamel should've been called up immediately prior to those games and sent down immediately after.

To get value we had to give value. 3 years of Fielder or 2 years of Hardy was significant value... 1 season and 2 months of Hardy (giving him time to hit a hot streak again) screams prospects to me. I don't see Fielder going anywhere in season. Well...if we trade him now the team gets one full year with him. I know you weren't 100% happy with what we gave up for CC. Not that JJ is CC, but if you get a stud prospect pitcher that is in AA or AAA he could easily be in Milwaukee next year. That may not help this team this year...but what would you do? Something obviously has to be done with JJ/Escobar. It's easy to complain about one way or another, but something will be done. Escobar is proving he can hit and I know he won't have JJ's power for a few years IMO, but I'm willing to move him if the right deal is there. We lack pitching at AA and AAA more or less in a major way. Getting a stud at any of those levels would make me happy for JJ. This team really needs to either trade for another starting pitcher or move a guy like JJ when he may have more value now than he does a year from now when he really is a rental player. I'm not saying this team can't win, but they need more starting pitching to win...I'd rather not trade a bunch of prospects to do that. I'd roll the dice and trade Hardy (if the value is there) and get Escobar's 'feet wet' (by that I mean you actually play him) and see what happens.