JJHardy7

Thats only fact if you use the archaic system Bud Selig used to judge market sizes, which was total population. Jump out of the 50s and try using demographics. We're in the upper half, and around 10th. our attendance is awesome and we're 3rd in TV ratings. We can maintain that if we continue to operate aggressively. Where do we compare in revenue streams though? I honestly have no clue, but to me that'd be the most important number. If we're in the top 10 now, you have to figure we have to maintain a playoff caliber level every year...a down year with an aggressive payroll could really hurt the team. Again, not sure where we rank, but I think revenue generation would be the most important number. If we're 3rd in TV ratings, but 15th in revenue right now I'd say we're definitely a small market team. We really don't know what will happen when/if this team has a sub .500 year. That'd be the real test as to where the Milwaukee market ranks IMO.

Thanks! It looks like the Phillies' prospects being talked about for Halladay have something similar going on as well, though. Not sure if it's just something they do when a roster move of some kind might be coming? I've never used that during trade rumors, but wouldn't you think there would be more sources out there confirming? Not knocking at all on you PF...it would just be a really, really interesting way for a trade to go down considering there aren't a lot of sources out there. I guess we'll see soon!

Kendall probably needs to go if Salome is reasonably ready, but I think Corporan/Rivera would even worse. Well if you're going to compare Lopez vs. Counsell contracts you might want to do the same at catcher. Kendall is probably the worst or close to it in terms of regulars in regard to slugging percentage. If Kendall comes back cheap, it's a different story. You'd have both Corporan and Rivera for the minimum...and also Salome plays in the mix too. Do you roll with two of those three or pay Kendall? Again, if he comes cheap it's a different story, but I do think he needs to come back cheap or not come back at all. Lopez is 29, and nearing the end of his window to get decent money in a multi-year deal. Barring something completely unforeseen, I can't see him accepting a role as a backup as a result of that. If he accepts arby, he does so with the full knowledge that weeks is our 2B, Hardy or Escobar is our SS, and Gamel or MaGehee is our 3B. Very true. I also don't see a problem with him accepting arby. Given the changes that could be made with this team as a whole this off-season Lopez could be starting...who knows. I also think we need to remember that last off-season was unusual for baseball...if the economy is showing signs of life Lopez could get a long-term deal pretty easy IMO.

jjhardy7 and nate82, we like Rickie in CF because that was his college position. I believe he was moved to 2b as a college junior to increase his draft stock and fill a team need. Braun played SS in college...

Largely because of tax laws, insurance is pretty close to a scam. I don't know if I'd go that far...they really could just change the tax law. Also, who usually has all the money laying around to fix those things on their own? If you make enough money to have the cash for a $100k repair...you'll pay enough in taxes.

Could it have anything to do with the shadows as Braun complained about? I know this has been discussed in a another thread, but the Braves feed made a huge deal about this in their broadcast today. They said their players were hoping the clouds would remain for the day so they didn't have the shadows. It's apparently not only the Brewers complaining about this issue. It was mentioned a ton and was a decent part of the pre-game by the booth guys.

I'd really like to see Hardy moved for a pitcher and Lopez kept as an OF/2B/3B/SS. Bring up Escobar/Gamel and keep Lopez as backup. Let Hall, Counsell and Kendall walk. I like Counsell mind you, he is just getting too old for my tastes and I'd like to go another direction next season. Kendall is just dead weight since his defense has slipped so much this year and Hall has been useless for some time now. I agree. The only issue might be who replaces Kendall at catcher, but if worst comes to worst you can have Rivera and Corporan man the position for a year...I'm still hoping Salome defies the odds and has shown the Brewers he's a MLB catcher. I'm on the fence on that one. Why do so many people want to move Rickie to the OF? It's one thing I guess I don't understand here. There's no guarantee he'll be any good there...just because he has plus speed doesn't make him a good CF. I would imagine he'd be terrible judging a ball off the bat...just a guess. I guess I'd rather have Rickie play 2B at least one more year and see if he can put a full year together with the bat. If he struggles with both the bat and learning a new position, it could be a rough year.

It asks for simple opinion, and that's what was given. He clearly stated it was nothing more than that and just his gut feeling. Not sure why you have such a problem with that. Not three days ago you posted: "People are entitled to their own opinion or at least that's what I thought was the case." I don't see where it's asking for just a guy feeling or 6th sense. I don't know if it's been edited or if I'm just clearly missing something obvious. You once again pick my posts apart, but I expect that. I have no problem with an opinion...but to say a player was failed because one has a 6th sense and their usually right about that strikes me as elitist...especially from a moderator....and then having another moderator defend it. I'm probably more wrong than right, but I try to use more than 'I feel this and I'm right...' That just seems incredibly strange to me and like I said somewhat elititist...again especially since I'm being questioned why I think it's wrong by another moderator defending it. It's not a big deal...I just would rather get information about lottery tickets, stock information, etc. than a 6th sense that Gamel will not be a good player. You could just say you don't see Gamel being good because of X, Y, or Z and it would be fine...saying he won't be because you can somewhat predict the future and you're usually right is a little different IMO. He struck out too much in the bigs, defense has questions, he's a little older than most amazing prospects that have had HOF, etc, etc would all be somewhat valid. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion...if somebody can predict the future here that's pretty sweet...I just don't know if that's an opinion, a fact, or just supernatural.

Because the lead post in this thread doesn't ask for any more than that? It asks if anyone has a 6th sense about the success or failures of players? I missed that. I don't have that kind of ability to project players that way. I thought this forum in general attempts to avoid posts saying so and so sucks or such and such will happen...because I just know it, etc. I apologize if I'm in error thinking that. I just personally don't like posts like that because it seems more of what you'd find at espn.com or whatever, but to each their own.

If you buy a stock thats trading at $50 for $100 you overpaid no matter if that stock soard up to $125 or crashes to $12 in 3 years. I don't think that applies at all when comparing trades. Yes, you can overpay. There's just no way fangraphs can predict the future. You can see at time who paid more...but there's no way you can factor in picks from losing a type A free agent IMO. I guess to a certain extent you can 'value' a guy like Wallace in trade...but we have no clue what other packages he could've been traded for so in theory we don't know what is true market value was...only the trade that happened.

My opinion was asked in the lead post and I gave it. I didn't question anybody's else's thoughts. The problem is you didn't use any logic whatsoever besides that you had a 6th sense at this stuff...how does that make sense? You tried to use some opinion in your last post, but that's not 100% accurate. It is an opinion though and you're obviously entitled to it. If you want to judge Gamel in his little time in Milwaukee, that's fine. I'd rather judge him on the minors at his numbers when he started at 3B...you could argue he was one of the better hitters on the team then (not that it'd be all that difficult right now http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ). What other player have you had this '6th sense' about since your good at it? Or does this goes beyond baseball? Just curious... To the thread, I'll admit I don't know much about Wallace, but from the little I do I think he'll be a solid player, but I don't know how good. I can't compare him since I don't know as much, but I do think Gamel will be better than LaPorta. I thought that before the trade and still do. LaPorta is putting up some good numbers this year...I just think he'll have a difficult time adjusting to MLB pitching and I feel he's going to have to play 1B or DH. His defense is terrible in the outfield and lacks a lot of range. I think he'll be a below average 1B where I think Gamel could at least be average...I've been impressed with his strides this year I guess. Last year I was hoping he'd be below average and maybe stick at 3B.

Fangraphs had the CC deal as even for both sides. They had the Cards deal as the Cards giving up $25m to get $8m in value. That was just for Wallace, before other players were added. Fangraphs is a nice tool, but I hate predictions on wins or losses in trades when prospects and draft picks are involved. We won't know who 'won or lost' for a few years.

We offered LaPorta because he was blocked by Fielder and we desperately needed to keep our only good left handed hitting prospect. IIRC the Brewers wouldn't give up Gamel or Escobar...they chose to give up LaPorta in the trade. pitchleague...sorry man, but that is kind of weak. You can't make posts with that kind of stuff and be taken at all serious...unless you have some super power...if you do please fill out a resume for the Brewers.

The fact that you say Melvin didn't bring in any prospects doesn't make it true. He did. He got Jorge De La Rosa, Zach Jackson, Jose Capellan, and Carlos Villaneuva. Capuano had all of 33 innings in Arizona before becoming a Brewers. Has it really been a few years since he's traded for a prospect? I'm asking the question because I don't recall one in the recent years, but obviously could be wrong. I guess maybe that's a change in philosophy? You're correct that it was not on the level of CC. But that team's major weakness was a catastrophic bullpen, and Melvin went out and got the best RP on the market that July to try and address the issue. That's basically my point- the last two seasons the team has performed poorly in the 2nd half, but in each season Melvin made acquisitions to help the team. If they slump after the deadline, it's not because he sat there twiddling his thumbs in July. I guess I just don't see it as a major trade either way. He didn't sit on his hands and you're right he's usually not going to do that. I do think we maybe gave up too much in the deal (again, that's if the prospects we gave up were ranked correctly in our system). Inman is still real young, but obviously he's struggled in AAA so it may end up being more or less a wash. I think some of the 'slumps' the Brewers have could be blamed on the team put together by Melvin. It seems that they 'slump' as bad as any other team, but that's just an opinion and maybe not true. I know a lot is made here about how strikeouts aren't a huge deal and not to get into that, but that's not an opinion I can really support when this teams seems to be over matched at times. A guy like Lopez (not discussing the trade) puts the ball in play as well as anyone on this team...and I personally do value that.

Agreed. But in both 07 and 08, he made significant moves in July to try and improve the team. Linebrink is not and was not a significant trade. The Brewers just gave up significant prospects in the eyes of some (Inman had his own warts). CC obviously was, but I'm not throwing Linebrink in the same category. It's hard to trade for a relief pitcher and be significant IMO unless maybe it's a top closer. Just my opinion though. If you think Linebrink was a significant trade, than we've made one in '09.

I didnt not assert 8-9million per year. I only asserted the types of pitchers who are making 8-9 million THIS YEAR, similiar to what Cameron is making THIS YEAR. I'm with TLB. We signed Cameron...that's a big difference. It's not even a comparison to anything really. You can bring up more cases of this, but you either draft these guys or trade for them if you're Milwaukee. You can't just pick guys who have nice contracts and compare them to free agents on the team. Yovani makes a lot less than Cam...what's the point?

It's not about spending 90 million because that's the budget, it's about spending 90 million in the best way possible. It drive me nuts when people take the Packers to task for being under the salary cap. Who made a rule that you have to spend the money because it's available? Just because many people operate that way with their personal finances doesn't make it sound financial planning. In the same I don't want DM making moves and spending money for the sake of doing it. Have a long-term plan, lock up our key assets early, create flexibility and value, simplify roster management, and extend the competitive window as long as possible. That's really not a fair comparison...with a cap and revenue sharing most NFL teams have the cash to easily exceed the cap. Baseball unfortunately doesn't work that way. The more money you can spend the more talent you can bring in....if you know what you're doing. You are right about using the Brewers money the best way a big contracts. You can't afford too many misses on long-term deals. You can have some short-term deals that don't work as long as those players aren't crucial pieces to a team that is contending.

The more I think about it the more I don't want to trade either. If we do trade one, I'd move Escobar. I really don't want to trade him though for a rental or anything like that. If we can get a younger prospect back plus a guy that can help now, I'd probably be fine with that. I wasn't in Escobar's camp at the beginning of the year, but the more I've watched him play I'm starting to sing a different tune. I don't think this guy is going to be below average with the bat at SS, but it's up to him. He's putting up nice numbers with his frame. If he works hard this off-season, I think he'll be at least average with the stick in the bigs next year. If he was physically fully 'developed', I'd be in the boat to move him now. I just think he still has some room to grow and that should help him generate more power. Rey Ordonez never had that power ability...Escobar's shown it at times and again still isn't physically developed. I'd hang on to both of them and hope Hardy crushes the ball the rest of the way. I do have to tip my hat to TheCrew07. I disagree with you in the off-season about this, but you were right. Hardy should've been moved last off-season. I only saw Escobar play a little bit in Huntsville, but after seeing him this year he's the real deal. I like how some here are just disregarding his defense...it's really, really good. If he hits like an after SS in the bigs, there's no way you move him unless the deal makes sense now and in the future. There's nobody really behind Escobar in the minors that will be ready for a few years...we can just plug away with veterans, but why? With Hall and Suppan off the books after next year the team should have plenty of money for pitching, etc.

You are hung up on length of contract... and there aren't really facts, just opinions. I actually liked Clark as player, in fact I've said it many times around here, I just wouldn't have paid to keep him around. I'm not hung up on the length...the total money was pretty small IMO. If we signed guys to those deals now, nobody would care. Because the payroll was low and we gave a guy $3.5 million on average for two years (Clark) and one $2.25 million for two years on average (Helms) doesn't make those terrible deals. The payroll total was terrible. I have a hard time knocking DM for those two deals. It's not like we could've used that money differently and made the playoffs. I just don't see how those deals were 'bad'. Just because it meant they were two of the higher paid players on bad teams doesn't make any difference to me. They were low risk moves in my opinion. The Suppan and Hall deals were very high risk moves. I just can't compare the two.

I have a hard time criticizing the Riske signing. No one could have foreseen a devastating injury that has taken him out for basically the whole length of his contract. Well my point is if you're going to knock some cheap contracts you're better off knocking on deals that were worth a lot more $$$. His stats also indicated he may have been having a 'fluke' year IIRC. Or at least some here were posting that.

SS Escobar CF Weeks LF Braun 1B Fielder RF Gamel C McGehee 2B Lopez 3B Heether Why do so many want Rickie in CF? I'm also going to guess McGehee's defense is bad at catcher or else he would've stuck there and most likely not been released by the Cubs. That lineup would be really bad on defense. It'd be much easier to keep Gamel at 3B and find a corner OF.

3. Bad contracts to players like Suppan, Hall, Clark, and Helms. Again TheCrew07...how are the Clark and Helms contracts bad? Clark signed a two-year $7 million deal and Helms signed a two-year $4.5 million deal. If those are among the top four bad contracts, Melvin is the best GM in baseball. I think we need to get over those 'bad' contracts (along with Turnbow's). Suppan and Hall's deals were/are bad, but what about Riske? Suppan makes what Clark and Helms got in a year or more during his contract...let's get the facts straight.

I know it's a small sample size, but it looks like Nelson is finally getting it going this month.

I know it's a small sample size, but it looks like Nelson is finally getting it going this month.

- Traded several players and prospects and has nothing to show for it on today's roster. (Especially the Carlos Lee trade. Lee and Cruz for a year and a half rental of a closer) How many prospects has DM traded away that have actually performed well in the bigs? It took Cruz a few years to figure it out and he still doesn't have enough time that tells me he's going to be an all-star every year. He looks good this year, but I'm not going to get too worked up about it. I'd imagine most GMs have traded away a lot more prospects and regretted it than DM. DM is an ok GM. I do worry about the lack of pitching in the organization. I know that's not entirely his fault, but at some point and time that has to get figured out. I do wish DM would monitor when to trade high on some guys. I know this could be the first off-season where we see some of the first real wave of prospects that arrived in Milwaukee traded (Hardy, Hart, etc), but in my opinion that maybe should've happened sooner especially with a player like Hart. The Brewers are supposed to know more about their players than anyone else and when they've traded prospects that's worked out for them...it's like they get a special attachment to the players when they get to the MLB level. DM has also struck out in free agency, but when they signed a guy like Suppan that's before Milwaukee baseball was really taken seriously (not saying Suppan changed that) and the economy was different. They had to overpay for a mediocre pitcher...hopefully they're past that stage, but again developing your own pitchers solves those types of problems pretty quick.