JJHardy7

You introduced this word. I think it's a 'fluff' term/concept. I think you're taking it in a different direction that I was looking at. I'm looking at August and September when a team is in the race that they have they're #1 guy there. Sheets has been good on a team that's never gone anywhere. I think he'll be good in August and September the only question is he has to be healthy to get there and that is more or less my entire point. I hope so too. However, it's pretty darn clear that the Brewers have needed Benny very badly so far this season -- and he's been there. So my point is... when does Ben get credit for this? I've already posted he's a Cy Young guy (in the mix) for the first-half. Does he deserve more than that? I'm honestly not trying to slight the guy by any means. It's not glass half full, it's reality. Missing time is 'missing time', until it comes time to evaluate whether or not to sign a guy to a long-term deal... hence my comparison with Carpenter (who most here praised StL for locking up long-term when they did). I disagree. How can you not take into account Sheets DL time with the Brewers? If you don't, that's fine we just flat out agree to disagree. This is Milwaukee and a small market club. I can't say I find it shocking either. However, none of Sheet's injuries have appeared to have been due to being out of shape except one -- the pulled hamstring from last season. Literally every other injury he's had (to the best of my layman's knowledge) has had nothing to do with conditioning. There honestly is no way to know this answer. It's just my opinion. Now here's the portion of tonight's segment where we start agreeing. This is the part about mitgating risk. I don't know that the Brewers should make that big an investment in any FA player. Not paying El Caballo what he got was very wise. Not paying Sheets might be equally wise. I think this has more or less been my point. I'm not bashing Sheets on his performance by any means. He's a very, very good pitcher. I just am honestly wondering why all the SIGN SHEETS is coming out now. If he struggles for a few starts or gets hurt the exact opposite will happen -- not that I want that. I get what you're saying TwoLiveBrew, but I just honestly think it's silly that it's so pro sign Sheets right now. There's a very, very big risk (depending on the contract) in bringing him back before the year and now. I guess my best hope is that Sheets flat out pitches nasty the rest of the year and we go far. We'll most likely lose him, but for all we know we never had a chance. Did Sheets show up in better shape this year or is that something being thrown out because he hasn't been injured? I have mentioned this a few times based on things I've heard from the Brewers in the past and I don't want to ruin this thread so I won't get into details. I'll just say he looks in better shape this year by looking at him and I think Sheets is/was very well aware this is his "money" year. This happens in a lot of sports and it's not a knock on Ben. It just brings up the question IF (and I'm saying IF) Sheets year is based on being in shape, will he stay in shape? I'm just throwing it out there.

Awful pick. Should have taken Bayless - he was the better talent. You ain't bringing any toughness, guy. Same ol' Bucks. I've actually heard ESPN saying he will bring toughness to the Bucks. He's not the toughest, but the guy is going to play hard which is something I'm all for. Ostertag, Reeves...many more. Alexander is a 3 or a 4...not a slow center. Let's face it the NBA draft is a crap shoot more or less and Alexander does have upside. I like the pick where they were picking. I was hoping they'd swing a deal with the Heat to get up to number 2 and take Beasley or Mayo, but I'll take our trade today and Alexander. And I think we do need to keep in mind that in the NBA trades are often announced after players are picked. It seems crazy that no deals have gone down in the draft so far.

On the free agent market that costs Jeff Suppan money. This is why I believe spending almost 2x Jeff Suppan money is worth it to keep Sheets. One Ben Sheets is better than 2 Jeff Suppan's. If Sheets goes down for 1/3 of the season or even 1/2 a season, we're most likely not any worse off combining that with our #6 for the remainder of the season than with a Suppan-like guy for a full season (quite possibly still better off). If Sheets stays healthy we're miles ahead, and a legitimate contender. The costs involved in your plan is that you have no better than a mediocre pitching staff unless you get lucky with some young guys that explode on the scene. You're giving up almost any chance for excellence. The Brewers are a small market team. They cannot afford to pay a player that gets hurt like Sheets. I'd rather use the money on the young guys and hope a guy in the minors pans out if anything else. Sheets isn't a spring chicken anymore and is most likely in his prime right now so depending on the years he's an extreme risk -- small market teams shouldn't do that IMO. Depending on who you're talking about giving up, the cost here is your future. I'd rather trim $10MM (if necessary) somewhere else off the roster than give up a LaPorta or Gamel or other top prospects when we already have an ace in our hand without giving them up. Especially since I'm of the opinion that Prince will be walking in three years (if he isn't traded sooner than that). If you want someone that I'd be calling a (your phrase) "pretty darn good pitcher," you're talking about multiple prospects of that caliber. Is that worth $10MM/year. Those kinds of guys will be making the league minimum for a big chunk of Ben's contract. I'm not sure you even save any money in that scenario -- depending how much service time this "pretty darn good pitcher" has already clocked. Well you kind of make my point -- I'm all for Prince traded and he should bring in a pretty darn good pitcher hopefully. Depending on what happens in the minors and with the current group the Brewers may be too stacked at a few positions -- again depending on how things progress. Signing Sheets now is a risk unless he's willing to do a 3 year deal or take less money and I don't blame him for not doing that if that's what happens. My point is that trying to call someone "clutch" or not is probably a waste of time. Sheets is an elite talent, and he's been "clutch" all season long. Well maybe clutch isn't the right word. How about being there when your team needs you the most? Will Sheets be there? We don't know yet, but I do hope he is. So what do we do with the 'non-clutch' time of the season? Does he get credit for being stellar in nearly every single start he's made so far? I don't see any reason to expect that Benny won't continue to be this good (aka "clutch" to some) as long as he's out there. I guess what I'm saying is that I could care less when during the season Sheets got randomly hit by an injury (2007). He has no control over that. You can keep use your "clutch" word all you want, but my point is it's been a half season. I've never doubted Sheets as a good pitcher and I'm not going to. Sheets has an injury history and there's no denying that. A decision has to be made -- keep the young guys or sign Sheets. I know we can say well all this money is coming off the books, but those players need to be replaced and we need to extend guys. Why put a ton of money on a guy that in the past few years for whatever reason has proven he can't stay healthy? So... Gallardo would go in the same category as other SP, right? Because the only place you'll find a special category for Sheets all by himself in terms of injuries is Milwaukee imo. The only way that Sheets's injuries 'don't compare' is that they haven't been damaging to his shoulder or elbow, like most SP injuries. I think clearly if you have to choose btw. those kinds of injuries & the fluky stuff Ben's had, you go with his injury history. My point there is: You're a GM. Pick between Chris Carpenter & Ben Sheets. Not very hard, is it? The part you mention about "frustrating" is what I meant with the reference to fans complaining that, 'the Brewers must make the most outs on the basepaths!' Yes, Sheets's injuries have been frustrating, and on a rationalizing level, for some fans it would've been more acceptable for him to have shredded his shoulder or tendons, because then those fans can 'understand' the injury. Inner Ear Infection! Wussy! Blisters! OMGz he's the only pitcher to ever get sidelined by those! (not aimed directly at you, JJ07, just like your comment about the Cy Young wasn't at me) Pitchers miss time. That's the way it is. But if we're talking long-term contract extensions or considerations, I'll take a guy with Sheets's injury history over someone like Carpenter's every single time. I don't think you're seeing my point and using some of your comparisons make zero sense. Nobody here is calling him a wussy or any of that. Again, for whatever reason he's missed time. It hasn't been an arm injury, but to me that's a half glass full opinion. Missing time is missing time and I think it isn't shocking that in his free agent year Sheets appears IMO to have shown up in much better shape. If you're not in shape, you most likely will have injuries that someone in shape doesn't have. I don't care if Sheets goes on the DL for 4 weeks because of a stomach virus. He's still missing time and to me you simply cannot be a small market team paying a guy in his 30s that kind of money. Signing him will cost the Brewers some young players and again the Brewers have probably reached close to their "cap" internally in order to meet their bottom line. The Brewers don't have revenue that other big market teams have. I am not knocking Sheets I'm just pointing out my concerns on paying him money that the Red Sox would offer. I can just see this board next year after his huge deal with the Red Sox and Sheets goes on the DL -- thank goodness we didn't sign him! It's only June and if Sheets puts together a great year for an entire year and gets a huge deal that's good for him and I don't blame him for leaving for big money. I know he's the golden boy around here sometimes, but this is a business and it's very, very risky situation for the Brewers.

Right, but this happens to every team. No pitcher is immune from injuries. I'm not going to disagree one bit with this. Small market teams just can't afford to pay a guy like Sheets given his history. Oh man. The dude is as 'clutch' as a P can be. Will it only be until he pitches game 7 of a playoff series & does well that it'll be 'ok' to recognize that? How is "dude" so clutch? I want to see a healthy Sheets in August and September while the Brewers are in the race. I'm not saying he won't pitch well, but I am saying will he be there in the stretch run? And again the stretch run isn't in June as we learned last year. Nowhere have I said this. He's a top-tier SP, healthy, and pitching to his talents. He most certainly is a serious contender for the 2008 Cy Young award. I didn't specifically say you and I apologize if I came across that way. Sheets should be in the 1st half of the season Cy Young talk, but we'll see where he's at come September. What about Gallardo? Any time you lose a valuable player (P or not), the dropoff is frustrating. But that's the way it works. Any player can get hurt, and SP especially tend to get hurt more frequently. Nothing anyone can do about that. Agreed. If Gallardo continues to go down with injuries, we can put him in the same category as Sheets. I don't think Sheets continuous injuries compare to general injuries to pitchers. It's beyond frustrating. If Sheets isn't on the team, what do you mean by plan appropriately? Who will they be pitching in his spot? If it's someone already in the organization, then that "plan" is in place even with Sheets. Or will it be a FA signing? If so, how much did we spend for the next mediocre guy? Or a trade? If so, what did we give up and for who? I'm interested in hearing more about this plan. It's simple really. You try and get the best 5 pitchers you can and every year Sheets is #1 and we wait for him to get hurt. Without Sheets the Brewers will most likely pursue another pitcher. Will it be of Sheets' caliber? Probably not, but if they get a guy a few notches below Sheets that stays healthy for the year that in a way makes up for the big drop off going from Sheets to some of the guys we've had to use in the past. Like TheCrew07 mentioned if you haven't checked it out take a look at the minor league forum. The Brewers are full of talent and part of this "plan" could be packaging some of these guys for a pretty darn good pitcher. The Brewers have several options and to me it just doesn't make sense to give Sheets the kind of money being talked about around here. The Brewers are a small market team.

Why, because in the first season in his career that the Brewers were close to the playoffs he happened to get hurt? That's strange to use as some form of measuring stick on him. If only he would have gotten hurt earlier in the season! You may or may not notice that we're in the thick of a playoff race right now, and Ben is a (if not the) main reason for that. Let's keep the 'he's not clutch!' stuff out of this, because it's just not accurate or fair to Ben. Why? Last year's hot start and being in first place around this time didn't do the Brewers any good. I'm not saying he should've gotten hurt early, but I am saying every time he goes to the DL then essentially your #6 starter is in the rotation. If Sheets isn't on the Brewers, they could plan appropriately and not suffer the big blow of Sheets getting hurt. Sheets can't prove he's clutch unless he stays healthy. It's only June and some are acting like Sheets has already nailed the Cy Young award. I'm really not totally for trading him before the deadline, but if we do that we may get more value than 2 picks (depending on what is offered), but Sheets would have to stay healthy until that point. I think it's interesting how a few months can really get everybody fired up one way or the other. Sheets is way to big of a risk for a small market team to invest in.

I will repeat what I said earlier; Sheets is irreplaceable. They will never be able to get a guy that is as good as him for next season. Ben is one of the top five starters in baseball and that is nothing to take lightly. I don't think anyone is arguing how good he is. How good is he when he's on the DL? The way people talk you'd think he's missed multiple seasons with crushing arm and shoulder injuries. He's never had a shoulder or elbow issue, and he's never thrown less than 106 innings in a season. Steveo it looks like you're very pro-Ben and that's fine, but I'm trying to be a little more objective. The Brewers haven't been able to count on Sheets and not having Sheets forces them to protect themselves from the injuries. 106 innings would be a lot more valuable down the stretch in a playoff run and that's simply something Sheets hasn't provided.

I love the trade. I thought at first we must have given up a 1st to have the Nets accept it. I really hope this doesn't mean we're taking Love tonight. Yi was more of a 3 at times last year so I don't think this is a huge hole, but I'm sure it is one the Bucks will fill somehow tonight.

This is 2008 and the Brewers are far closer to contending than the Braves. For how much longer though? Again taking away Sheets and Fielder all of sudden makes this team around the Braves level talent wise. LaPorta and Gamel could more than make up for Fielder, but we don't know. The Braves also have some nice minor league players of their own and already have some nice young players on their team. In Milwaukee if he gets back to the playoffs he'll be considered as the man who brought back one of the worst franchises in the game to a legitimate contender. His reputation around the league will certainly be better by winning with Milwaukee than the Braves. Or he'll be fired at the end of the year. Atlanta IMO is a much better opportunity for long-term success. Players actually want to play there and would much rather live in a warmer climate year round than Milwaukee. Atlanta also doesn't have to overpay free agentst o get them there. If I'm Yost, after all the hoopla surrounding firing him the past few years I get on the first plane out of town should the Atlanta job open up. Why would Yost want to stay in a town where all he gets is mostly negative opinions?

I wish people would get past the "small market" thing. The Brewers are 15th in MLB in payroll. They aren't a small market payroll team anymore. While Sheets will demand a significant amount of money, he will only cost money--not players as well. There's only so much payroll can go up though. I'd imagine they're maxed out or close to maxed out unless some other crazy revenue comes floating in. Milwaukee will probably always be a small market team. It has nothing to do with the payroll. It has everything to do with the revenue generated. They don't have and probably will never have big marketing or television contracts. Yes money is coming off the books this year, but what about locking up the young guys? If we're going to pay Sheets $20 million a year we're going to lose some of the young guys. I think one problem is the small market fan mentality. We can afford to keep some of our young guys, but not a guy on the level that Sheets is at with his injury history. Every move that happens this way doesn't mean the Brewers screwed up. Who knows what Sheets wanted the beginning of the year? It could've been way over the top already. I'll put a lot more weight into this if Sheets stays healthy or relatively healthy this year and the rest of the career. It's only June and I'm not sold that Big Ben doesn't make at least one trip to the DL. Why pay $20 million a year for that?

I just don't see how the Brewers could've offered him a deal before the season. Unless you wanted it then it's a moot point now. I also think it's way too early in the season to get worked up about Sheets. Has he pitched very well? Yes, I'm not going to disagree one bit with that. It is only June and until we're in September and Sheets hasn't taken a trip to the DL I'm not counting on him 100%. Wasn't he still healthy around this time last year? We may end up losing Sheets to free agency, but in my mind he's still nowhere near the risk for this organization. I know a lof of fans want a lot of the young guys re-signed and Sheets. Where is all this money going to come from? The Brewers are currently profitable and unless they sell out every game and increase ticket prices they can't continue to add costs. I know the Brewers have money now, but that doesn't mean they have an unlimited amount of money -- especially in regards to a player that has a history of not being able to stay healthy.

The good part of their history in Atlanta only really started 15 years ago. That's exactly my point. A team that won divisions year after year in the 90s compared to a team that still celebrates losing a World Series. I think you need to catch a Braves game in Atlanta to appreciate their fans and their baseball passion. I was impressed by the atmosphere and many fans are quite avid baseball fans which in my opinion is a little different than what you'll see in Milwaukee at times. Meanwhile back in Milwaukee the Brewers have a great core of young players and a solid farm system. They have been through the lean years and are about to put up a second straight winning season. This one appears to be even better than the last one. They are in the thick of a pennant race once again and are set up to do so in the next couple years. I don't disagree here, but will he be around for this? A few weeks ago nearly everyone was calling for Yost's head and it was reported he was fired. This doesn't exactly sound like a great working environment. Atlanta has shown they can put together some pretty darn good teams and while they aren't anything but an average team I don't see a 26 year playoff gap in their horizon. The organization simply won't allow that to happen. Atlanta also has a few nice young players of their own that should make a big impact for years to come and will be able to keep them if they want. Milwaukee will potentially lose Sheets and Fielder in the next few years which makes this current job possibly not as great in the short future.

If Ned has the choice between rebuilding Atlanta of finishing what he started here I doubt he'd go back. Why put yourself through another rebuild when you almost have this one were you want it and are about to reap the rewards of six years of work? He'd have to be some sort of masochist to jump ship to ATL now. I think the Braves history speaks volumes over why the Braves job is probably a move up compared to the Brewers job. Is the Brewers job a bad gig? No it's not, but with all the questions surrounding who will be here long-term I don't think it's a slam dunk. If I take my Brewers goggles off, I think in the long-term and over history the Braves job is the one I would want over the Brewers gig.

I've been to a few Braves games and know quite a few Braves fans and they've felt this way for awhile. Some even go as far to say that it's understood that once Cox leaves Atlanta Yost will be the manager. I've also heard that the Braves manager position is more or less Yost's dream job.

Branyan has great plate discipline, he just has had huge problems making contact. You don't have a career OBP 100 points higher than your BA without taking a good share of walks. I see what you're saying, but at the same time Branyan tends to see more pitches at times because he does swing and miss so often. I find it odd that he says he doesn't have discipline, but then points out that he walks quite a bit. I think that should've been explained a little bit more because without any detail that makes little sense.

Has anybody seen him play recently, I'd like to know how he looks behind the plate. Is defense the reason why he doesn't get much national media attention as a top player, he has hit well at every level. I've seen him play a few times this year. I'd have to agree with And That. I noticed his footwork needs to improve, but he's not lacking any physical skill. I think one of the reasons he doesn't get national media attention is because of his suspension. If he keeps doing what he's doing, I'm sure we'll hear a lot of national attention going into the 2009 season for Salome.

With Yo/Braun/Fielder/Hart/Weeks/Hardy/LaPorta/Gamel under control for, at minimum, a couple of years, chances should be prevalent in the near future. A top-of-the-line pitcher intermingled with sluggling studs. That's a playoff team. Agree, but all these guys under control in the next few years are going to be awfully expensive come arby time. I know the owner has said we're not a small market team, but there comes a point and time where a decision will need to be made regarding paying Fielder $8 - $12 million in arby vs. having Gamel or LaPorta at the minimum or close to it. Just because we have the money to spend doesn't mean that it has to be spent in terms of cost vs. benefit.

I realize that LaPorta is hitting very well in AA, but I really doubt he's Major League ready quite yet, or will be in just a couple months. Some seasoning in AAA is probably due before he starts at 1B for the Brewers. I understand this reasoning and what Peavey said. I'm not 100% sold on it, but I just thought I'd throw out the possibility. We would also be getting back picks when CC walks so it would be Fielder for CC and picksl, which to me can improve the minors and combined with this years draft could make the Brewers farm system pretty darn good for awhile. Unless he signs an extension, that wouldn't work well for us. We'd be giving up a huge part of our offense for a good pitcher, but would the gain from CC offset the loss from Prince? If not, you're trading away several years of production in order to not even get better this year. Paying a big price to get CC for 2 months means you'd better win in those 2 months, which becomes much harder without Prince. Sure Laporta or Gamel could play well, but they aren't advanced enough yet to assure me they wouldn't be a huge step down from Prince. I don't disagree with what you're saying. I just think it needs to be taken into account that just because we're controlling Prince for the next few years doesn't mean it will be cheap. It will be cheaper than a free agent Prince, but in terms of cost savings now or this off-season is the ideal time to trade Prince. How big is the drop off from Prince to LaPorta or Gamel? That's a good question. Another possibility is playing Branyan some at 1B or even Brad Nelson. I know it would be a risk in trading Prince for CC, but it is worth the thought in my mind. I'm thinking the Brewers might be able to get a little bit more than CC since they would be giving up a rental for a cheaper than free agent player for 3 years. There's also the great debate of will Fielder stay or is he happy in Milwaukee. There's real no real answer to this question unless you're the Brewers brass. The savings from Fielder's arby years would allow the team a better chance to extend Hart (and possibly have him hit clean up) and/or use some of that money for Sheets or any other player for that matter.

Anthony is already an elite player and would easily be the best player on the Bucks roster. I'm not denying the above, but is there a chance that Anthony would refuse to play in Milwaukee? There also have to be a few character issues with him since he's had some incidents in the past.

What about trading Fielder for CC? I know it very well might be a stretch and to be honest I'm not 100% sold on it, but it would clearly open up positions for Gamel and LaPorta next year if Fielder is gone and they'll be cheaper options. Just a thought...

I hope if Rickie struggles we see Counsell a little bit more at 2B. It's time to hold all players accountable and not rely on potential. I hope Weeks does well, but we need to put this team in the best position to win and hopefully it is Weeks that can do that.

Why is this a big deal? I thought the majority here said that ESPN was biased and only liked the Yankees and Red Sox and was a horrible network and source of information. I'm still a firm believer that ESPN covers teams that win games....and the Brewers are doing that now so it's not shocking they're being covered nationally a bit. As far as CC, I'd pass if it means giving up LaPorta and Gamel right now. Let's give it a month and see where we're at in the standings.

OBP wouldn't be the air freshener in a 25,000 dollar car. It would probably be the entire drive train. If you don't get on base, you can not score runs. I don't think not getting on base is the discussion here. The discussion is does Braun's other numbers make up for his lack of walks. I personally think it does or it's close. If Braun would walk 20 more times this year, how many times would he actually come around and score? I'd take Braun's power over walks every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I personally think only Braun and Sheets should make the all-star game, so I'm not a homer or anything here. I just can't say Braun isn't one of the top three OFers in the NL. Ranking him as low as others have I just don't get.

NUMBER 8!!!!!! Seriously, 8 homers in 55 AB? I'll now invoke the term "video game numbers". Regardless of what other posters have said in other threads...Branyan's batting stance change is for real. I'm by no means saying he'll maintain this, but a power hitter that has strikeout issues has now moved his hands to control the strike zone. I don't think we'll see a .220 from Branyan, but more of a .250 or .260 avg, which isn't great, but given his power more than makes up for it. Again, let's not forget the pretty solid defense the muscle is playing. I love the fact that Branyan rakes and people still hate on him. "He'll come back down to earth" and last year Braun rakes and most said " his defense is horrible". Can we not enjoy anything in Milwaukee? There aren't that many "perfect" batters and defensive players in the bigs, but I guess that's what it takes.

I know you're into the stats and I appreciate that, but if we simply break it down to getting on base to get runs to me that really negates power. If Braun's OBP was .350 it probably wouldn't lead to as many runs as his pure power does. His OBP does need to improve, but to say there are 8 better offensive OFers in my mind is not right. Give me Braun and he will more than make up for the walks that ultimately would not lead to that many more runs compared to a OFer with a higher OBP with less power. To think Braun shouldn't be an all-star is mind blowing in my mind. What does he have to do next? Play catcher?

Braun was moving out of 3B at the end of the year anyways. The sign that Braun was moving to the OF was the team not picking up Jenkins contract. If the Brewers really thought Braun could play at 3B they would have kept him there and kept Jenkins also. The Cameron signing might have happened anyways depending on how comfortable the Brewers brass was with Hall playing CF again. I don't think Jenkins had much to do with it. His contract was too high for a platoon player in my mind. Wouldn't it have made sense at the end of the year to tell Braun he's playing OF so he could prepare more in the off-season for the position change?