JJHardy7

Is JHJ Counsell's replacement next year?

I will just enjoy the fact that we can complain and whine about being pretty much in first place in mid-July. Much better than other years! Again, like I've mentioned it's fine to knock the organization for this and that, but at times I think we're over critical...like most of us know...things can be much, much, much worse.

Here's a quote from RR on ESPN: "From my point of view and that of the staff, it will be nicer on us," he said. "These things, these contracts, most of the time a manager doesn't know about them so you don't have to worry about anything. But when it's so public and I knew exactly all the numbers, it's just not comfortable." http://espn.go.com/mlb/st...ve-games-finished-clause I guess I don't see what the big deal is that RR said this. In this situation, he was aware of the clause. As mentioned, other minor clauses shouldn't be on RR/manager's mind. That's for the GM to deal with. The Brewers obviously knew about this when they traded for him and acted accordingly.

His point was how people are assessing players, not who makes or breaks the deal. I hadn't noticed if the same people who were upset that people thought Yuni would suck as badly as he has are also convinced Greinke isn't good or not, though. I get that, but I don't see how you can corelate that those that were ok with Yuni and don't like Greinke have some type of agenda, etc. Yuni's numbers weren't great and I guess from my view I personally 'hoped' he'd play better than some said and was willing to be patient. For me, expectations kind of go hand in hand with past performance. If he came to Milwaukee and was decent, great. If not, it's not like I'd be shocked. On the other hand, expectations are much greater for Greinke. I think it's fair to ask questions, etc. I personally think that's more interesting than a 40+ page thread about a player that was a throw-in and should have had minimal expectations. I'm more interested in a thread (like in the transactions area) of shortstop options. Yuni isn't good...I get it. The question for him is what can we do now? I do think we can win with Yuni's skill level if everything else works out the right way, but having Casey next to him at 3B does not help us at all. And as for Greinke...we need him in top form if we're going to win the division. Plain and simple IMO. I'm not saying Greinke is awful, terrible, etc, but reality is much, much, much more is expected of him.

We have a lot of work to do with regards to how we fans evaluate players. This thread proves it. The same people that stood with Yuni are now against Greinke. Gee, reeaaal surprising. I don't see how the two compare. Yuni was a throw-in/had to take him in the deal. We traded FOR Greinke. If Yuni doesn't/is not playing well, it doesn't mean it was a bad deal. If Greinke plays poorly, it is a bad deal.

Greinke still did load the bases...while Gamel should've made the play it's not like the defense had much to do with hitting a batter or walking a guy. I still hope he turns it around. He's going to have to do more than last night's start to justify that trade. I hope he gets there, but we're past the halfway point. It's time for him to dominate and hopefully last night was a small start of that.

What have the 4 players given up for him done? Escobar has picked up right where he left off last year at the plate- pretty much brutal, and the other 3 guys have been in the minors. Greinke is striking out 11.5 guys per 9 with almost 7 k's per walk, and with a better WHIP than Gallardo and Wolf (before today). Like Gallardo and to a lesser extent Marcum and Wolf, he seems to be a victim of 'one bad pitch' that results in a crooked number. Well...we could have avoided the huge Betancourt thread and that constant discussion...I personally would love to see that. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I think the long-term impact is what some are worried about. Greinke hasn't pitched all that great in 1/4 of his likely tenure with the Brewers. The guys we have up are under control for several years...that and Odorizzi was recently bumped to AA.

I really wish Greinke didn't get hurt playing 'basketball' or whatever the real injury was. That was the excuse for awhile (which I get), but now I'm not so sure we have an excuse. I would've thought he would've come out and been awesome against NL teams. I guess at this point I again wonder if this is a guy that really can put his team on his shoulder(s). I don't think he is. This is his shot right now to get a HUGE contract with someone 16 months from now. Milwaukee isn't a huge town, etc and if he can't do it here he won't do it. In KC, sure. He was great on a team that had no expectations. I'm starting to believe he thrives when nothing is expected of the team. I also disagree with the comment that there is no evidence of him being mentally weak. I think there is plenty of evidence given his past. That's not a knock on him. He just hasn't done it on the stage we are on now (which is not a huge stage). I hope I'm totally wrong, but we're 1/4 through our time with Greinke. At this point, I'd undo that trade if I could. We'd need another pitcher, but given what we gave up I think we could've done better. At this point, it wouldn't take much.

Not sure if it has been mentioned here...I know I wish Greinke pitched better so far...but didn't he get two extra days off in this whole thing? Was that too much time off? Not to make an excuse...he needs to step up ASAP, but just wondering if that had any impact at all.

It was one game. It means nothing. The thread is asking on the debut and future. It doesn't say Mat Gamel wins 5 MVPs or more? I like Mat...we all know that. Nice to see him back in the bigs and get playing time. I'd like to see him play some 1B while he is up. I know reviews have been a bit up and down, but Mat can hit. Problem his...where does he play?

I do hope ZG gets it together soon. He's had his moments and some stats support that, but a game like tonight (I know it is regular season and they all count the same) is when ZG needs to step up. He didn't. I wish we could've traded for two Marcums at this point and not ZG, but hopefully he goes on a tear and proves me wrong. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup for playoff push/clutch games. I know I might be beat down around here for saying that, but so far he hasn't stepped up at any point in his career 'when it counted'. And to be fair...with KC it never counted. I guess we'll see what happens going forward, but we really needed him tonight and for whatever reason he didn't show up.

I'm with you Nottso. Also, probably not major news, but the baseball insider down here on the local sports station (Seth Everett) is pretty convinced Prince is going to be a Cub. I hate to say it, but that makes a lot more sense than the Mets right now...but that still sucks. He's said it multiple times and thinks it is pretty much a slam dunk.

This thread is getting a bit old...we can state facts like facts, but in reality we don't know what the best option would've been in the draft. Time will tell, but experts say this draft was bad. So the difference between 19 and 10 or even 30 shouldn't be all that great. There might be a few guys, but I'm willing to give the Bucks time. If Harris becomes a decent role player, I think the Bucks had a decent trade. I wouldn't mind blowing up the team, etc, but there were really no studs in this draft. I think the Bucks give Hammond one more run and fire him after this year. Also, trwi7 for someone who rips on the franchise and in this thread calling it horrible (or something of that nature)...maybe you should pick up a new NBA team to follow? With all due respect, I'd go insane watching my favorite NBA team and constantly ripping on it. I get it. You hate the Bucks and they are terrible. I try to wear my Bucks colored glasses and look at the glass half-full. We all know how tough some years have been, but for me part of being a fan is optimism. If I ever get as upset as some, I'll just pick a new NBA team or watch even more entertaining ball (college basketball). Anyways...one point/question I have. I don't see how we don't have cap space. If anything, the past few years (we did screw up some contracts) we've created more in the future: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/milwaukee.htm Obviously, we'll probably sign a filler or two and the picks, but we're down two one bad contract (Gooden) and one that might be bad in a few years (SJax). Redd's $18MM is off the books. I think if the team falters this year we'd be in a very good position to re-build with limited bad contracts. It'd be an ideal time to bring in a new coach and a new GM and build with the youth we've gained the past few years and bring in more youth. Hopefully any player they sign in free agency is a one-year deal. I have my doubts taht JH will bring in the right guy with multi-year deals.

I doubt Bogut will be worse than last year. Couple that with Jennings not improving, and we're probably right back at the ten spot next year. NBA purgatory. I agree, but at the same time I don't see the need to 'blow the team up', etc if Bogut comes back and BJ improves. Not saying that will happen. I just think we do have maybe...maybe...a bit of a base. Not much to build from, but we need to get young guys in and roll the dice. We need to stop extending/signing guys that are fringe players. I like what we did today if we hit on the picks. The NBA draft is becoming more and more like the MLB draft. It's an unknown.

What? The first sentence explains why a rebuild would work. You don't need to make trades, you draft players and they don't have a choice but to come to Milwaukee. They can become free agents and then leave... I read the realgm stuff...mixed bag. Some always hate things, etc. The trade...it depends on how the draft turns out. If it is like we think it is now, moving down 9 spots is not a big deal. If there is a stud we missed, the trade doesn't look so great. People have complained about the guys we traded for a long time...they're gone...and the trade still sucks. I don't get it. I don't like that our GM has to correct his mistakes. I'm not a fan of that at all. I do think this is a trade to rebuild. If we're in the mix this year, we keep them...if not these contracts are probably easier to move than the ones we gave up. It's not a trade that we clearly won (what did we expect...trade these guys for a star?). It just shows you can't miss on free agents and the draft like the Bucks have. You have to clean up the mess and I think we did a little bit of that today. We didn't give up much to get Corey...so that wasn't a big deal. Salmons contract was a bad one and it's gone. SJax should at least make things interesting and he cares...which you could say many Bucks didn't last year. I do like the draft pick though. He's young, etc and is part of what i think now is a rebuilding mode. If Bogut isn't the same and BJ doesn't improve, we'll suck next year. We can at least move the guys we traded for. This is what rebuilding is to a certain extent. We have no clue what moves were on the table, etc...so let's see what happens. I hopd the Bucks 'buy' some more picks and draft more young guys.

I guess I should clarify a bit...I don't think the current fan base of the past few years is enough to support the team. They had the run a decade ago and in between made the playoffs a few times (not that it is amazing...but that gets the base a little excited more so than losing). Again, if they would get a new arena that would buy them more time. I'm sure most have seen reports that the teams are losing money. Kohl may love the Bucks, but without a new arena I don't think this team sticks around. They would need the magic of the ping pong balls and get a LeBron, Wade, Duncan, Durant, etc type of player in the near term to avoid this IMO.

Wouldn't that be all the more reason to rebuild? Do it when the fan base is small and apathetic. I just don't know how much patience the fans have. It's not a given that we rebuild and are awesome and in the finals 5 years from now. I'm not saying you are saying that, but I can see it on paper, but we still need to have a GM that pulls off the right deals. We've been waiting for that for quite some time... This is the misconception everyone seems to have. The owner decides whether or not the team moves. As long as Kohl is the owner, this team isn't going anywhere. I don't see him selling anytime soon, because he won't sell to anyone wanting to move the team. We'll have plenty of time to rebuild and start competing again while Kohl is still owner. If that happens, then he should find a buyer willing to keep the team in Milwaukee. Is it a misconception that this team needs a new arena? Kohl likes losing money so much that he'll keep the Bucks in the BC? This team is going somewhere unless they either make the playoffs on a consistent basis or get a new arena. I'm not saying he would like to sell, but he's spent money time and time again and the team has failed to deliver the past decade. That plus the lack of a new arena make the Bucks a prime target. I don't see how the Bucks are in Milwaukee 5 years from now unless the new CBA changes things. I hate to say that, but I believe it to be true. It just takes one offer. If there were plans 4 years from now for a new arena to be opened, I could see blowing the team up. The Bucks are in a tough spot. What they are trying to do is very hard to do...no doubt. Like I've said before, missing on drafts is one thing, but the free agent moves they have made have cost the team. You can get by with one bad contract, but not more than that if you are Milwaukee. I still would like to keep Bogut and Jennings together. I also think right now Bogut's value has to be pretty low given his year last year after the big injury. BJ also didn't have a great year. I think the best thing for the Bucks would be to listen to any and all offers, but not 'blow up' the core of Bogut and BJ when their value is low. BJ is pretty young so I'd prefer to keep him if we think he's getting better. Bogut's injury history worries me. I do wish that we could be good most years...I'm sick what the Bucks should do to not suck talk. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm in heavy favor of a rebuild. Wouldn't bother me at all as a fan, because I know that the Bucks will never get anywhere with the current team they have. The fan that only goes to games and cheers on the team when they win games though probably would be bothered. To me, that's the biggest problem the Bucks are in. It's not like the Bucks have a large, loyal fanbase. I'd have to imagine that if the Bucks don't compete the next few years they're going to need to hit on draft picks and turn it around quick...or they'll be the Las Vegas Bucks. I think if they are going to blow up the team Hammond might as well be canned. No need to keep him around to rebuild.

I think Bogut plus #10 is too much to move up to #2. But I think Bogut for #2 would be a good deal. I think this makes more sense. I don't think it makes sense to just have a fire sale. You still have to draft the guys. The list of 'impact' players is nice, but there are misses in drafts. I'm not saying the Bucks are great, etc, but I'd like to see this team healthy and I'd like to see us draft well. We can blow up the team, but hell any 'good' thing that comes from that will likely happen for different fans once the Bucks move out of Milwaukee. I just don't think the Bucks are in a position to do this. They need to win. I think the best way to do this is to draft well and not sign bad free agents. The Bucks have missed on both. I think we can only hope we get lucky and draft well in our range. I think the future of this team is based on Bogut and BJ. If Bogut doesn't improve from last year and BJ continues to regress...it is time to blow the team up. It will also get us a year closer to getting rid of our bad contracts. We can only rebuild so much in the next few years based on our current contracts. Might as well stand pat for a year or two and then blow up the team with a new GM if that is the case. On a side note, if we 'blow up the team' and risk moving...maybe the ping pong balls will bounce our way and we'll get the #1 pick? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Agree with davego. If we're a few years back and Durant is there, that is a trade you do. There's a reason the T-Wolves might trade out of the #2 pick...it doesn't appear that there is a Durant/All-Star type player there. Trading Bogut for that would be the end of me being a Bucks fan.

Most things are always related to the most recent game, etc here at times, but I think overall he's done a good job. We did have some key injuries to start the season and we're still sitting in a good spot. The bench is questionable, but again, DM put this team together. I don't think RR should take the blame for that at all. And I also think Kotsay being on the team may not be on RR. That probably is on DM. The bullpen thing is my real only complaint. I think overall he's the best manager (small sample) we've had in awhile. I really wish some would embrace the good, but we could be undefeated and he'd get a F grade from some.

So it was just a fluke to reach the Eastern Conference Finals and had nothing to do with talent? The Big 3 wasn't together all that long and other transactions in prior and post years after that probably had more to do with it than a 'fluke' happening, but you and I don't agree all that much on the Bucks so I'll agree to disagree.

I should know better than to continaully rage against the machine of "prospects haven't proven anything" as it's such an empty and baseless argument but for some reason I still let it piss me off every time I read it. My bad. I like the minors a lot as well. I'll admit though that these guys don't always pan out. I don't think it makes sense to keep trading prospects like we have. I agree with you that you can't keep doing this. Look at our farm system now. I think the thing that I look at though is not every prospect pans out. I hope every guy we've given up becomes a stud because I've followed them when they were in our organization. I also know though that chances are the entire group won't pan out. That's not the way to view it as 'we win' a trade. I think the key is when you make these trades you need to know what you are giving up. If Lawrie becomes Braun at 3B, that may not look so good. DM really hasn't traded too many top tier prospects that went on to have success. I'm not saying he's given up garbage, but so far they've given up the right players. The two deals this off-season though are the most risky in my opinion based on what we gave up. If the Brewers make the playoffs this year and next year (and move on in the playoffs), I can live with that. If we miss the playoffs the next two years, that will hurt.

trwi7 - Not sure that was a fluke season by the Bucks. They just didn't know what the next step to take was and then blew up the team/immediate future (i.e. traded Ray Allen). RyDogg - The company I work for usually gets offered a Nashville Preds suite 5 times a year or so. It's the perfect opportunity to have conversation and also pay attention when one wants to and there is plenty to see. I get the NBA is seen as a league that doesn't try, but I don't always agree with that (though it is true at times). Hockey just has a lot more going on in person. To me, it is the most exciting sport to see in person. Back on topic...I think Wisconsin needs to focus on the sports they have now. I could maybe see a MLS team if/once the Bucks are gone. I think the Bucks and Brewers will be followed/increase in attendance if they win. The Packers and likely UW and Marquette will be followed in good times and bad. Given that statement, not sure how much support a MLS team would receive. What is the smallest MLS market? Are those teams drawing decent crowds?

Maybe he's using his time in AAA to perhaps get lucky and get back to the bigs AND see if he'd really enjoy/like coaching in the minors if he has to work his way to the bigs as a coach/manager? I don't see the need to knock him. He wants to play...someone will pay him. Nothing wrong with that.