TheCrew07

I'm not sure I'd qualify Cappy as a great signing, if he has a future in MLB it doesn't seem to be as a starter.

I'm not sure how accurate the statement quoted above is regardless. I seem to recall when I was watching the "When it was a Game" series on HBO lots of talk regarding the "haves" buying player from the "have nots" so the "have nots" could keep their teams afloat. I seem to remember something about St. Louis coming up with the idea of the farm system as well, they went out and signed everyone possible, with the idea of being able to compete better with the teams on the east coast.

I forget which beer company commercial has the dudes who say "Brilliant!"... but that was the first thing I thought of... Macha is the first Brewer manager I've ever despised.

Yea I caught that the third time I read it, I guess I was reading what I expected it to say, instead of what it actually said. I caught it as soon as I posted it and immediately deleted the post, the post was active for literally 15 seconds... sneaky sneaky Miss Hawing.

The best way to motivate an athlete is based on their personality, not their age. Money doesn't go out of his way to compliment anyone, he's always focused on a particular player's flaws, it's not a situation unique to Salome., to be fair Money is usually answering questions about a where a particular player is at in his development. However, he doesn't seem to be an overwhelmingly positive guy, someone said earlier this season that the pope isn't catholic enough for Money, and that's not far from the truth. I do agree with Mass that we never hear anything about Angel either way out of the organization, as in player development/scouting types, it's mostly his manager at the time or roving catching instructor. Lucroy got a ton of positive publicity in Spring Training this season, maybe Salome would have if he had been healthy.

A high K/9 and BB/9 pitcher is about all you're going to get for Hardy and is the type of pitcher we should be targeting. I'd be very surprised if the Brewers landed a high K/9 and low BB/9 type pitcher for Hardy... if he's that good already, why is he being moved in the first place? There isn't a team out there this season that has the logjam for SP that the Rays were dealing with this time last season and would maybe sell a little bit low on a guy. Kazmir and Jackson are gone now, and I wish we had either one to be honest, but no one else has that kind of depth. The O's are close, but a couple of their prospects are pitchability guys and the guy they'd most likely move in Guthrie isn't exactly a stuff guy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with pitchability pitchers who maximize their talent and get good results, but every pitcher the Rays were thinking about moving had "stuff"... just a difference in upside between the 2 organizations, but not necessarily the MLB production from the players. I think an MLB pitcher like Morrow makes sense and I think a youngster like Arrieta makes sense. I'd prefer to move players like Hardy, McGehee, Hart, Lawrie, Green, and Cain for some higher ceiling players without results or unproven youngsters. If Gamel doesn't stick at 3B he'd make a wonderful 1B or 3B, I realize I've beat this into the ground but I think the McGehee vs Gamel comparison is just way too black and white. I like the idea of Peterson working with young arms this off season and pitchers that have stuff but shakey control seem like prime candidates to be working with our new pitching coach.

Cameron doesn't strike me as a guy who will fall off a cliff production wise, I would expect some sort of decline though over the next couple of years. He's put together pretty well and doesn't carry much/if any excess weight that would make me concerned about a nose dive in production. He'll likely be a in a slow/steady decline in the field until he retires as he will inevitably loose some foot speed, but who knows what he'll do at the plate, I would expect some drop off in the coming years but his bat speed has never been an issue. He just swings through pitches on occassion and tends to take close pitches... sometimes he walks, sometimes he strikes out when he takes, but that's not a physical issue.

Both Gamel and Fielder hit LHP extremely well, but generally I agree with your point. The one advantage having left handed hitters would be breaking up the lineup so that a manager would have use more RP or leave a guy out on the mound in a matchup that favors the batter. It may not have an effect on the outcome of the specific inning, but moving later into the game the chances of seeing a gassed or ineffective reliever increase because there are fewer pitchers available in the bullpen. For example I'd much rather force LaRussa to use 3 pitchers going through 3,4,5 in the order in a tight game than use 1.

While I don't share X's unbridled enthusiasm for the move, I'm intrigued by it. Peterson isn't perfect, but he's had quite a bit of success with young arms in the past. As far as butting heads with established pitchers, that doesn't surprise me at all. If you're a hitter or pitcher who's established and having success, why would you want to change anything? Generally I've found that even at the high school level players will more readily accept coaching when they are struggling, when they realize change is necessary. Hopefully Peterson gets along well with Yo and Parra as both should be highly motivated to become more effective pitchers. Just Yo becoming more economical and working laters into ball games would be huge for the pitching staff on the whole. Beyond Yo if Parra can make significant improvement and become the sub 4.0 ERA pitcher he has the stuff to be we'll be in real good shape. Add in another SP or two via acquisition or FA (like a Sheets) and all of a sudden I'm really excited about the 2010 season. SP depth for 2010 should not be a concern with the quality young pitchers we'll have between AA and AAA.

Again why are we trading Gamel who's a lefty to keep a righty in McGehee? The organization is awfully thin when it comes to LH guys with power. Gamel, Green, Gindl, and Dennis are it as of today, and I'm not sure Green, Gindl, and Dennis will ever hit 20 HRs in MLB, they all could but I'm not going to bank on that possibly. Dennis probably has the greatest upside of that group and I liked what I saw of him and his bat in WI, but he wasn't healthy most of the year and has a long way to go regardless. However, I have no problem stating that Gamel will hit 25 or more HR in every season he's healthy. He's more athletic than Casey, has a better arm, more power, greater potential at the plate, and has greater positional flexibility down the road. McGehee is a 3B or LF... Gamel could play 3B, RF, 1B, and LF if he doesn't stick at 3B. * I know Casey played 2nd, but he has horrible range there, and it's just not his knee. He's not exceedingly quick, he doesn't have above average foot speed, nor does he have Hardy's instincts. He's an adequate sub, but I wouldn't want him there as an everyday player outside of injury replacement. We have plenty of players with power from the right side of the plate, lets not get carried away trading away our only LH impact bat behind Fielder. And ahh, Fielder is a FA after 2011, where will the LH power come from then? A FA? If so, whom? We should be trading from a position of strength to fill our holes... just like how it doesn't make sense to trade pitching for pitching, it doesn't make sense to trade the only other LH impact bat in the system besides Fielder. If any deal isn't possible without trading Parra and/or Gamel then I don't think Melvin was targeting the proper players. Given the payroll situation already for 2010 we shouldn't be going after "name" players, we should be chasing upside, players that pitched in AA or higher last season with legit stuff. I like the idea of a Morrow or Arrieta type... guys with legit stuff who aren't a #1 pitcher in the rotation or the top prospect of an organization but have some upside. I personally am not looking for a 95 mph fastball (though it would be nice), just someone who works consistently in the low/mid 90s like Yo (even a tick down from Yo in the 91-92 range would be fine) who will be effective and efficient with his pitches.

Cappy isn't exactly high ceiling pitching 80ish MPH.

LaPorta's BA stunk at .254, but everything else was acceptable, I'm no more concerned about him than I am Gamel. I truly hope both Brantley, LaPorta, and Bryson work out well for Cleveland.

Butler maybe but he'll start the year in AAA. Rogers and Rivas do not project as 4/5s, both will start the coming season in AA, and both are track to make the jump to the Majors in 2011. Rivas has already pitched over 130 innings as long as he matches or does better in AA he's ready to go. Rogers should bump to the 130-140 IP range this upcoming season as he'll be using his second option year.

A K/9 of less than 6 isn't very good, it's very average. He may not be Suppan, but he doesn't have a very high ceiling either. He's a solid #3 type who might occasionally put an ERA like a #2, his K rate was 34th in the national league this last season, not bad, not great, just in the middle. His BB/9 rate of 3.3 was 38th in the league for qualified pitchers as well. He's a good pitcher, but he's 34 years old already with average peripherals, he's not a high ceiling guy, and he's right at the age where he's going to start to decline. I'm not sure what comparing him to the Brewer rotation proves, we know they didn't pitch well, and for example Doug Davis is a better pitcher than who we have and I don't want him back either. I just don't trust players who out pitch their peripherals like Davis, I'm always waiting for the bottom to fall out. Davis is a good pitcher, but he's old and how long can he keep it going? I want a younger guy with a high K rate and probably a high BB rate, someone who's maybe underperformed their stuff but could break out and be something special. I'd rather we stay away from 30 somethings unless it's a last resort... if it came down to one of those guys vs Looper/Suppan I could be talked into it on a short duration deal, but we have too much pitching between A+ and AAA to be acquiring declining players on 3 to 4 year deals as a solution to our rotation issues.

I would have preferred the Brewers addressed the starting pitching and worked backwards, which is why I didn't want them spending money on Hoffman right away.

How do you figure that? If anything after coming into the season slimmed down and seemingly more committed to defense he pretty much proved that he was out of shape and not producing to his potential. If you mean going forward, I'm not so sure he'll maintain. He'll be a premium offensive player, he was last season, but the questions surrounding his weight will continue to follow him around.

We have a plehtora of relieving depth between AAA and AA, there's no reason to sign or keep anyone who's not one of our best for depth's sake. The same is true of the starting rotation... Butler, Rivas, and Rogers will be better than retaining Looper for a fraction of the cost. If they struggle they are a better option because they're young, cheap, and will improve... Looper is none of those things, though I guess he has an outside chance to improve.

They are paying most of Hall's contract next next season as well

It used to happen on xbox live to us quite a bit, certain friends could join parties of some friends but not others. Eventually we figured it all out and in every case it was port settings on the router. You can likely play other friends that are setup correctly, but 2 people who have the same ports being blocked likely won't be able to hook up. Again I've never played on the ps3, I'm working off of my xbox live experience. I'd google it, I doubt this is the first time in the history of ps3 that 2 people couldn't connect to a game.

If it's anything like Xbox live it would depend on how the firewall you are behind is setup. Many home routers have a DMZ setting, it's pretty easy to set your PS3 to be the DMZ on your router, setting your console as the DMZ is usually the easiest gaming solution. If you're hooked directly to your cable or DSL modem you shouldn't have an issue. If you're at school there could be an issue with specific ports being blocked, I went xbox 360 instead of ps3 so I'm unsure about the Sony console, I'm sure you can find that information online someplace.

The single most shocking revelation in this thread... A rogue state detonating a nuke is problematic my biggest fear, I just hope it happens east of WI.

I have to say that you're obviously not getting what we're saying if that's how you feel. It's not like McGehee won an outright competition for the job, Gamel was never given an even chance to produce and earn the playing time. I'm not sure how that's even debatable, given the recent comments made by Melvin and Ash, they admitted to handling the Gamel situation improperly. If you don't believe that Mat is the better athlete between the 2, has the better arm, the higher ceiling at the plate, in addition to being the only legit power threat from the left side in the system, then I'm not sure what to say. If Mat's worst season, breaking as a rookie in mostly PH and DH duties, is better than league average, just think how good he could be. I personally think he will become a LH Braun who's going to take more walks at the plate. This is yet another situation where people want to make 1 for 1 comparison between players when the situation isn't that black and white. We have a surplus of RH hitters at the moment, we should trade from our position of strength to acquire a position of need. In addition Fielder isn't sticking around past 2011 and there isn't a LH bat other than Gamel that's going to produce anywhere near his level in the system. The lineup will get more LH as this next wave of players comes through, but none of those players has hit anywhere near Gamel's level. There has to be a balance between short term and long term roster construction. Taylor Green is probably a good LH comp to McGehee, he's a player who's not all that toolsy with an excellent compact swing. He'll hit for average, around 20 HRs, won't walk or strike out much, doesn't have great range or arm but is generally an all around solid baseball player. There's absolutely nothing wrong with players who get the most out of their talent, but again the situation isn't that simple. If McGehee batted left handed I could even buy into the argument that he should be kept over Gamel, unfortunately he's not, and his skill set is redundant so it's easily replaceable. Casey had a magnificent season, no one is taking that away from him, he's simply more expendable because of the side of the plate he bats from and his limited tool set. Lawrie's much more toolsy than McGehee and I'd still move Lawrie before Gamel because we already have a RH power hitter signed long term in Braun. This is a similar situation to last off season when I wanted to move Hardy for pitching and keep Escobar... Hardy was the most valuable player who was the easiest player to replace on the roster (between Braun, Fielder, and Hardy)... this off season that player is McGehee as Braun and Fielder aren't going anywhere.

I guess that's my whole problem here. Rivas throws every bit as hard as Gutierrez, and actually consistently a tick harder, with much better results. Gutierrez doesn't profile as a guy who's going to miss many bats, and his control isn't any better than Rivas, Amuary actually walked 1 less batter in 26 more IP on the season while striking out nearly twice as many hitters. I'm unsure how Rivas continues to fly under the radar? What do the scouts and managers see that we don't? He's got legit stuff, backs it up with production, what more could he do? TMJ surgery did set him back a little but missing 2 years and being a strict pitch count didn't keep Rogers off of the list. In the end maybe it's as simple as he's just not a "name" prospect who was drafted highly with all of the fanfare. I feel bad for Amaury but maybe he'll use this as fuel and work even harder in the future. edit. That's probably true, but I keep reading he's got power potential, which is why I didn't initially include him.

I'm not sure I understand the logic in trading Gamel to keep McGehee. Now people want to trade the only legit proven LH power bat in the system and give the position to a player who had the first breakout season of his career? All I'm going to say is be very careful what you wish for because Prince is gone in 2 years and then we will have no LH power threat at all in the lineup. At the very least Gamel should be tried elsewhere before being moved if all of a sudden the organization doesn't think he's a 3B. Every off season since I've been reading this site people whine for another solid LH bat to pair with Fielder. Isn't that what Gamel is? He isn't going to K in 42% of his plate appearances, he'll K around Braun's rate but take a greater amount of walks. Gamel will be an .800ish OPS player at his worst and has the potential to be a .900+ OPS player at his best. Gamel will hit 25-35 HR a season and we don't have another LH hitter in the system capable of that today. Mat had his worst season as a pro and still hit for an OPS over the average, I'm guessing many people just don't realize the kind of hitter he's going to become. I'm all for players earning their playing time but Gamel never even got a fair shot to play the position. McGehee got hot after Weeks went down and that was it... Gamel was PH and DH which many of us correctly pointed out was a great waste of his service time. Of course he failed in that role, he's never done it before in his life, and ultimately the experience trashed his confidence. Mat certainly has his warts, pretty much all players this side of Griffey do as prospects, but the organization handled him in the absolute worst possible way. I'm not giving Mat a free pass, he's ultimately responsible for his play, but the organization did set him up to fail, which I find the most troubling aspect of this entire scenario. Melvin should have known better and stepped in when Macha claimed to be in a "zim-zam". Then again he should have addressed the pitching issue years ago and nothing happened there either, so I shouldn't have expected much. I've beaten the pitching drum as much anyone, probably more so because I tend to be relentless, but I wouldn't trade Gamel or Escobar for pitching for all of the reasons I've previously mentioned over the last 2 years. Package McGehee with another MLB position player... if necessary throw in some prospects in the low minors to get the deal done. If you can't find a deal then take a shot at some often injured pitchers like Sheets... please don't make a bad worse by trading the only elite LH hitter in the system. I know we drafted Davis who's got 20/20 potential, but he hasn't played a game above instructionals yet. If we need to trade an elite prospect bat I'd part with Lawrie and resign Weeks before I'd trade Gamel.

Well you got your question answered.