TooLiveBrew

I'm also intrigued by Mattingly for no other reason than he was a serious candidate for the Yankee job. They must have seen something in him that projected well as a manager. He was Torre's buddy/bench coach in NY & now in LA, and he's a Yankees legend as a player... imo those are the two main reasons he was considered. Put it this way -- if the Yanks had interviewed Larry Bowa, would you be intrigued by Larry Bowa as a possible Milwaukee manager? Mattingly will probably get his shot at coaching, but I'd rather him learn on the job somewhere else. Quote from Hank Steinbrenner (from NY Post article) during the hiring process: ""As a player he was very quiet. He was the hardest working guy in the game as a player. The greatest clutch hitter I've ever seen and a great defensive first baseman and a quiet leader," Steinbrenner said today. When asked if one of Mattingly's drawbacks was his inexperience managing a team at any level, Steinbrenner answered, "He has been in the dugout. He has been a coach and obviously Joe [Girardi] has experience, on the other hand Donnie has experience in the dugout as a bench coach." Here's Mattingly's post-playing career, per his Wikipedia page: After retiring as a player, Mattingly spent seven seasons as a special instructor during Yankees' spring training in Tampa, Florida from 1997-2003. Following the 2003 season, the Yankees named Mattingly the hitting coach. He spent three seasons in that role, receiving much praise from the Yankees organization and his players.... On October 26, 2006, Mattingly was promoted to being Joe Torre's bench coach, replacing Lee Mazzilli. On October 18, 2007, Don Mattingly was considered the front runner for the Yankee's manager position, after Joe Torre declined a one year contract extension. Mattingly was interviewed in Tampa, Florida on October 23, 2007 for the Yankee Manager search along with Joe Girardi, interviewed on October 22, 2007, and Tony Pena, interviewed on October 24, 2007. On October 28th, 2007 the Yankees front office announced that it had offered the manager position to Joe Girardi, and that neither Mattingly, nor Pena would be offered the position. I'm not sure who specifically considered Mattingly the front-runner, but I think it was a media and fan-fueled thing. Girardi's name was connected to the Yankees' vacancy (speculation at the time of course) even prior to Torre departing. As best I can tell, Mattingly wasn't ever really the front-runner, and the scheduling of interviews (Girardi first, then Donnie) seems to line up with that. At the time I remember getting the impression the Yankees kinda felt like they had to get Mattingly an interview since he semi-publicly pleaded his case to Hank Steinbrenner (see that NY Post link above). I'm not a fan at all of Joe Torre's management style (leaning on vets who've 'been through the fires' over the younger players... think Mench getting PT over Hart under Yost), and Mattingly is someone that has meshed quite well with Torre. That's the main reason I would want him avoided, aside from not wanting him learning on the job for us.

He won it all in 2001 with a really non-descript lineup: Aging Mark Grace at 1B, Jay Bell at 2B, Tony Womack at SS, Matt Williams at 3B, Luis Gonzalez in LF, Steve Finley in CF Reggie Sanders in RF, and Damian Miller at C. Yes he had Schilling and Johnson, but the rest of that rotation was really mediocre and their closer, Kim had 19 saves. Miguel Batista posted a 139 ERA+ over 18 starts & 48 games (139.3 IP). The aforementioned Kim had a 159 ERA+ over 98 IP in relief. Heck, Bret Prinz tossed out a 177 ERA+ over 41 IP. The offense was cobbled together around Gonzo's 174 OPS+/54 HRs, but the pitching was not just Schilling & Johnson. Team ERA+ of 120. I have to admit the usage of Kim is interesting... appears to have been used at a Relief Ace's workload in '01 & '02. Not sure what toll that wound up taking on Kim.

My biggest thing is that I really hope they target a more cerebral guy with an open mind -- not some former player with archaic philosophies. Oh man, I hope this happens. Like logan mentioned, I'm skeptical that this 'can' happen, though I am convinced this would be the right type of move. As for examples... there aren't many (if any). 'Baseball Truthiness-Keepers' tend to surround themselves with like-minded dudes, because the challenging of Truthiness is not to be tolerated. I don't know much about Decker, and I would be highly shocked if they would hire a single A manager to take over at the major league level. I could see it making more sense in Nashville but Milwaukee, no way. But who knows, this is the same organization that fired its manager with 12 games left to play and tied for a playoff spot. ha Now see, someone like Decker would be exactly what I could get excited about... barring him being a Truthiness-Keeper. I don't think MLB-experience should carry much weight, since clearly most MLB managers are stuck in the past.

I agree that this move will, at worst, maintain the status quo, which has been crappy play on the field + equally crappy managerial decisions.

I hope that's the way they do it logan, but I just won't get myself too excited. My speculation but figure it out yourself. Brenly is eminently qualified having won a title in a smaller market. No thanks. Brenly is as 'baseball truthiness' as it gets. Avoid at all costs. Finally, what would cause Yount to come in for two weeks? Perhaps loyalty to Sveum but more likely that he's been told Brenly will be the guy. So, just speculation on your part then. You're telling me that Melvin & Attanasio have already made a hire or decision? Come on. Just as plausible (if not moreso) is that Yount wanted to coach in Milwaukee but couldn't stand/agree/get along with Yost... and gets along with Dale.

As much as I appreciate this post, we all know how that movie ended. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif I know... I thought of that, but wanted to use it. I take full responsibility if our Death Star is destroyed. The media stories popping up the last week, and especially today really paint an ugly picture of Yost and how he's perceived by his players. Really makes you think that maybe Ned wasn't the "players manager" that we've been lead to believe I've felt that the "players' manager" moniker was just misused regarding Yost. I think he's probably pretty close as a person how he was in postgame 'comments'

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:c8cH8vc5WMzawM:http://www.juegoterapia This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Yost; it will soon see the end of the Tailspin.

Seconded Gorman. Just listening to Brenly give color commentary on games exposes enough 'MLB truthiness' to make your head spin.

Don Mattingly: ... Would come in with a culture of winning. What about the culture of winning that Yost brought with him from Atlanta! I hope the search is thorough and isn't confined to just the more obvious names/choices. I like Davey Johnson as a possibility, and think JumpinMac makes a good point on his dealing with young dudes. Don Mattingly has zero managerial experience... not sure why his name pops up (& would be interested in hearing rationale... not baiting). Brenly is the front runner. The fact Yount agreed to come in and coach is a clear indication that Brenly is in the mix. Based on anything more than your speculation? Just curious.

The Hammonds mistake was certainly more sizable than the Gagne one, though. And Cameron's signing (given his performance) imo is even more important than Gagne's was regardless of how Eric performed. The only contract I can think of off the top of my head (in recent seasons) comparable to the Hammonds deal is the one the Dodgers inked with Pierre... and that one might actually even be worse than the Hammonds deal was! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I don't want to see DM go. I think that, on the whole, he has helped more than he's harmed, and I think it would/will be much tougher to find an adequate replacement or improvement at GM than it will be at Manager. It's less clear that he is the right guy to take a playoff contender to the next level. Not saying he couldn't do it, it's just not something he's done. Can you clarify what you mean here? Texas's only franchise playoff appearances were with Doug Melvin as their GM.

The only important issue that yet remains is... what will FtJ's new title be? Is "Pure Yostian Hatred" still relevant? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Some pre-emptive reporting done by CBS? Nope, just a good old-fashioned FAIL http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/4af352f5911580a7363b2ecbed019b65caa32b3.pjpg EDIT: Sorry about that image... first time trying to post a screenshot.

Wow - I expected this at the end of the season but not at this point in the season. It will be interesting to see how the team reacts. My thoughts exactly on this. I think the timing is odd... but at this point it can't make much of a difference, so you might as well try something else. In other news, Craig Counsell, Tony Gwynn Jr. and Eric Gagne request immediate trades. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif I would guess Simba was offered the position and turned it down. Yeah... just one more aspect that makes this all the more mysterious. Immediate moves that will be made: 1) Weeks will be benched permanently for Durham 2) Hall will be benched for Lamb or maybe Gamel 3) Shouse will only be used against lefties 4) Rivera will play more at catcher 5) TWR will morph into Dale Sveum prior to the opening game of the series at Wrigley? Supposedly the reason Yount left the Brewers after just one season as a coach was because he did not see eye to eye with Ned on a lot of stuff. I recall hearing that at the time, too. Might have just been speculation, but the timing involved certainly lends a bit of credence to this theory. EDIT: Perhaps cast a hiring net of 'Those who didn't see eye to eye with Yost'? Nick Leyva could come back at 3B! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

I doubt anybody would have though we would win 90+ games after, or even before, the Gallardo injury. I definitely felt this was a 90-ish win team. Yes, my expected range included being down a bit below 90, but also over 90 by a few/couple games. I'm not patting myself on the back, just saying that's honestly how I felt heading into the '08 season -- 90 wins at the time seemed very do-able to me. To think that there is a difference between Yost and even the best manager we can get is 5-7 games seems to overstate the impact of a manager in my opinion. Agreed, however, I think 2008 has been proof positive that you simply cannot overstate the importance of a position with the impact of plus or minus appx. 3 games. In a tight race such as this year's, an overall net impact from the manager position (which I feel is what Yost has been... how many 'games', I'm not sure) is very dangerous. Fire Yost or keep him. It will matter very little. The next guy is likley to do many of the same stupid things Yost does. I think that, at this point, if this logic is true... might as well try someone else. I, however, am of the opinion that the Brewers can improve at manager. While it may be a marginal boost, going from an overall negative impact to neutral or positive would be a nice way to improve the team for 2009 & beyond.

In the context of playing on a team full of strikeout guys (and this is the key point), it does devalue him russ and he's not worth $10 million on the open market. $7 million tops. But he's worth less than that to a Brewer team because the Brewers need to balance off Hart, Hardy, Braun, Hall and Weeks, with as Melvin said early last offseason a "professional lefthanded bat". Getting rid of Cameron, who is actually worth likely at least $10M on the open market, is just counterproductive to winning. The key point is his production, not your unchangeable (no matter the evidence) distaste for strikeouts. Of MLB CF with at least 450 PA, Cameron ranks 7th in OPS. Here are the '08 salaries for the guys ahead of him -- Josh Hamilton (TEX): Pre-arby Curtis Granderson (DET): $1M (first season of Ryan Braun-type deal... bought out FA seasons by paying for arby & pre-arby seasons) Grady Sizemore (CLE): $3M (third season of Ryan Braun-type deal... see above) Nate McLouth (PIT): Pre-arby Carlos Beltran (NYM): $18.5M Rick Ankiel (STL): $900K (first arbitration season; signed 1-yr. deal to avoid arbitration) Then, let's look at some dudes that are past arbitrations seasons below, Cameron in terms of OPS (450 PA or more) -- Torii Hunter (LAA): $16M Aaron Rowand (SF): $8M The rest of MLB CF that have enough PA to qualify here are young guys that are pre-arby, arby, or on Braun-type deals. Of course there's Andruw Jones ($9M), who'd be on the list below Cam if he hadn't missed time due to injury, and Juan Pierre ($8M), who is... bad. $10M is a perfectly accurate guesstimate for what Cameron could get as a FA. But as the team is currently constituted, they'd be better off getting either a corner OF lefthanded bat and moving Hart or finding a speed, contact guy to play CF. Thinking like this is why Juan Pierre got a $44M contract. Scary.

Then you're bringing Gagne? Right? Well... unfortunately, Ned likely would -- don't let his inability to accurately utilize splits hamper yours! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Personally I'd pick DiFelice or Dillard -- actually Torres, given the leverage of that situation... but there's probably no MLB manager going for that. That would have been a situation where you'd have seen Fingers or Plesac in their time. Imo the loss of the Relief Ace has been the strangest and most hand-tying 'evolutions' for managers in some time (if not all-time).

Not sure how to get splits for Hall v. LHP in a specific timeframe, but on the season, his line v. LHP so far is .317/.377/.537/.915 Just for more Weeks 'apologizing', his OBP on the season has climbed up to .340, and his performance v. LHP (.259/.392/.430/.821) has been encouraging. However, that's about what I hoped for/expected from Rickie overall heading into 2008. In addition, his (small sample) line so far in September is .303/.439/.455/.894. As much as he's been raked over the coals (often justifiably so), Rickie's offense has been fine for months now.

Hall should no longer be considered an everyday player or even a regular part of a platoon. I couldn't disagree more with the latter. Hall once again slaughtered LHP this season, and the value a platoon of Branyan & Hall at 3B would likely be All-Star caliber production (& could possibly border on MVP-caliber). Hall continuing to get regular PAs v. RHP should stop the second Yost is axed. I sure hope so, anyway. I'd love to be proven wrong, but i'll be very surprised if Rickie ever gets beyong being a liability on defense so long as he's an infielder, so he better rake at the plate or he's overall more liability than asset as a player. Good post (as usual) danzig. I was just kinda thinking out loud on Rickie at 3B... it's gotten to the point where, in terms of defense, Rickie doesn't have much more room (realistically) for improvment at 2B, defensively. Reminds me of that great line from Marcellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction: "if you were gonna make it, you would have made it before now." As a Weeks apologist, I of course inherently believe that he will hit enough to justify a role at 2B/wherever.

Players better than Hardy have been moved. It's not common, but it's nowhere near unprecedented. That's very true. The problem I have with it (& ideally, Hardy would play 3B for the Crew) is that I'm not sure if we could improve on Hardy's value to the team overall. His range isn't huge, but his hands are soft and his arm is strong. If he's not interested in moving to 3B, I'm not sure that Escobar makes more sense. I don't think Hardy's as streaky as he can seem at the plate. I think a .350 OBP is sustainable for J.J., and honestly throwing Escobar in at 2B makes sense. Covers Prince's lack of range much better than Weeks or Durham, and would be a substantial improvement as a DP partner for Hardy. A player as young & inexperienced as Escobar probably doesn't have as much clout when it comes to where he plays. I'm a big Weeks believer, but if Escobar were an option over Rickie, I'd let Alcides take his shot... maybe try Rickie at 3B a bit.

It's all such informed criticism! 3) Ray Durham is terrible defensively. Worse than Weeks. On the whole, I agree. And I also think that's saying a lot about Durham. No range. Would love to see him get some backup time at 3B.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/shang_jay/0810rage.jpg http://pixhost.eu/avaxhome/avaxhome/2007-12-09/Rage.Against.The.Machine.Cover.jpg

Come on... any RH RP there is a better choice than Shouse. IBBing Howard with Shouse (with no RH RP to bring in) was moronic. If by 'getting the job done', you mean 'allowing a .360-ish OBP v. RHB', then I guess that's what Shouse does.

I loathe you Ned Yost. Who is this... "Ned Yost"?

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Louge/Astepup.png

Right now, I feel like someone just kicked my puppy with a steel-toed boot, and is swinging his leg back for a crushing blow to its skull... and there's nothing I can do about it but watch.