TooLiveBrew

Yeah, this (imo) might really come down to whether or not Benny feels compelled to give the Brewers a hometown discount. And in all honesty, the 'discount' would have to be in years instead of dollars. As has been mentioned, the Crew could manage a 3 or possibly even 4 year deal with Ben, but not the 5 or 6 he's all but guaranteed to get if he goes all-out as a FA. Of course all this would likely be moot if he winds up having damage in that shoulder.

The point is that he's doing well on the things over which he has control. The BS from yesterday's game is a perfect example of how using that stat can be misleading. Eric pitched well, and got burned on a strange tight strike zone, a badly missed call at 1B (the Weeks play from the hole), and some good ol' fashioned bad luck. Over the course of the season, his luck will even itself out, and he should surpass 40 saves with ease -- but that won't necessarily tell you how well he pitched. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif If Gagne can keep pitching as well as he has, the breaks will go with him too every now & again. It's just been (imo) a bunch of strange results for him thus far, btw. getting squeezed & other odd scenarios. If he were not pitching well, I certainly wouldn't have any reason to defend him or expect him to get better. And to be honest, I don't expect that he's going to get any better than he has been, I just am confident that he won't continue to have this ridiculously fluky bad luck. It really has been an extreme grouping of odd results for Eric so far.

Ah, I guess I just take more faith in guys like Drew Olson, Tom Haudricourt, and Bill James who said on 540 ESPN the exact thing I said. Professional scouts, are they? The concept that Hardy can only hit FB is just not one I see any reason to believe. You don't have the success he's had at the MLB level without being able to hit offspeed stuff. If you want to take a slow start as a sudden sign he's forgotten how to hit, I suppose that's up to you. Keep in mind Haudricourt has preached repeatedly that Capuano now has lost his 'winner-i-ness' that apparently Chris had for certain seasons, but not others. I'd question if Bill James has even seen Hardy bat more than a handful of times. Olson is the one I'd probably put the most stock in out of those 3, but not if he suddenly has a revised 'official scouting report' that's been compiled only during Hardy's slumping start to 2008 -- not a good time to get an accurate take on a hitter (just as scouting him 'definitively' while he's red-hot wouldn't be accurate, either imo). Did Melvin's nucleus win a championship at Texas? And I give Melvin credit with Gallardo and Villy. Dave Bush was steal. The fact of the matter is that there really isn't a talent wealth in the minors. And the point of the statement was do you trade to get it or draft for it to help now if you think this nucleus can win now or do you draft for the future. In the wild-card era, I'm not sure how not winning a championship can be taken seriously as a criticism when you consistently got your team to the playoffs. From there, it's basically a crapshoot. Melvin has been good for our organization's SP depth, not bad. He's the main reason we have been able to have a competent pitching staff after losing both Cappy & Gallardo. I don't think you necessarily trade for any SP, but I do agree with your notion that all the draft picks for this June's draft make this season & next an ideal time for such a move/strategy. The supporting evidence is only knee jerk if you think that this nucleus can win now. And I am taking it that is your stance. You are correct, sir. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

What a forgiving board. Five blown saves and his successes were dicey propositions. All parts of the order make good contact and he doesn't get ahead of people. But sure, bad luck, bad calls, fogged goggles, etc. Results oftentimes don't tell you if a guy was pitching well or poorly. The outings in which Gagne has actually pitched poorly, as opposed to getting poor results, have been very, very few this season.

Can this current team win NOW? If thinking long term is knee jerk, then I now know how Ted Thompson feels when the fans boo him on draft day. That first part is pretty short term. I'm sorry, I've just gotten fed up with knee-jerk thread after knee-jerk thread this season, and saw the following from you: Personally I believe that this team is handcuffed with negatives that detract from the good. Hardy has shown (except a few stretches) that he will never be more then a average at best hitter. His inablility to hit anything other then a fastball is quite worrysome. --No offense, but there isn't much legitimacy to the 'scouting report' here, though I think he's clearly the most limited of Fielder/Weeks/Hart/Braun/Hardy Weeks is frustrating because while he hits balls on the button he still is around .200 batting average. While batting average is a worthless statistic when a player is relying on walks a majority of on base appearances that is cause for concern. You also can't forget about his hole in his glove at 2B. Are the Brewers going to be content with his defensive play or will they be forced to move him to the outfield. --Inaccurate, especially on the defense -- Rickie has been surprisingly better in 2008. You're saying there's something inherent in Weeks's swing that his BA is limited? Rickie draws BBs very well... even when he's not slugging the ball well (which is a rare combo) -- this is a good thing. Like Melvin's teams in Texas you have to be worried about the lack of pitching depth in the system and at the MLB level. Your number 2 pitcher (Suppan) should be a 4, your 3 and 4 (CV and Manny) have trouble getting quality starts, and your number 5 (Bush) was just sent to the minors and forced to come back after 1 start. --So Melvin is not only not praised for acquiring good SP (Gallardo, Bush, Villy)... he's actually ripped because the 'best' he was able to do in Texas is take the franchise to its only 3 playoff appearances? I don't think I can sit here and say I believe that this nucleus can win and God do I want them to! I just think that after overhauling the bullpen, and working on improving the defense they decided that they would continue to live and die with the long ball. I know you are taking care to focus on the long-term, but a lot of your supporting 'evidence' is very, very knee-jerk stuff.

And Gwynn can play all three OF positions defensively and pinch run, neither of which Branyan nor anyone else on the team other than Hart and maybe Cameron or Kapler can do. Between Cameron, Hart, Dillon, & Braun, there is no need for Gwynn aside from pinch-running. The notion that Gwynn provides more value -- or some specialized value we don't get anywhere else (after all, Counsell is every bit as good a choice as a PR, and he's better at the plate) -- than Branyan doesn't hold water to me. I still don't like the trade of Gross, though I will admit that getting as solid an arm as Butler in return will probably make me forget about dealing Gabe soon enough.

I never found it offensive and most in the community didnt either. Its just those few PC crazies who are trying to make a name for themselves. PC crazies? It's that mentality that leads to so many bitter feelings. There are literally thousands of people who work against logos like those discussed in this thread... guess since they're offended, their opinions don't matter? Is it surprising that a community (Menomonie) that's 94% white (appx. 3% American Indian) wasn't offended? Sheesh! Oh... but since there's a greater number of ignorant white people, that makes them correct. First off, I want to repeat that my point on the Indians and Chief Wahoo are that I find that representation offensive--both in name and imagery. Their logo in the early part of the 20th century was even moreso. . . http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/OldClevelandIndiansLogo.jpg And if the name and logo were an African American, there would be a nationwide cry to change the name and logo. Great point, esp. in that last sentence, Jim. This notion that American Indians are just crazy wacko libby tree-huggers (or whatever) to be upset that their heritage is exploited is just plain preposterous.

The notion that there's some inherent 'loseriness' in the blood of the current group of players is laughable. The amount of knee-jerk threads lately has been anything but amusing.

This team is absolutely done. Complete group of underachievers. Reeeeeeeeee-diculous. Maybe if we were right in the thick of things with well over 100 games to play you'd feel better. Oh, wait...

Gagne was fine today, and has been all season. Yes. He was just fine tonight, and beyond him getting squeezed was the horrific 'safe' call at 1B on Rickie's nice play from the hole. (iirc, that was the 9th)

Clark is playing right now in Portland. Guess he decided to bow to the man!

Comments like that are the jokes. It's May 3rd.

Finally after 2 HR, a single + SB, and a double, 3 ER... NOW the scrap paper in the hat sez 'Git up TBow'

I still remember his Texas teams starting John Burkett in game one of the playoffs. Somebody needs to tell this guy that pitching wins championships and guys like Ben Sheets dont grow on trees. I think Melvin is fully aware of pitching's value. What you neglect to mention is that Melvin's tenure in Texas produced the franchise's only 3 playoff appearances. I'm sure that there were players he didn't bring in that were key in Texas, just as that is the case now. However, I also don't believe that there's any coincidence that Melvin is here, and has helped the Brewers improve to a playoff-caliber team.

The Brewers can't afford the risk of sinking the money/years into Sheets, and they certainly can't do the same (but to greater degree$) with Sabathia. He's going to easily get a Johan Santana deal imo. That's why, even though it was a knee-jerk reaction, Lincecum makes more sense as a trade target (imo).

I'm glad you said the Rockies...they're my #2, with the Marlins very close thereafter Ironic, isn't it? the Whitesox need one. Its very early 90's gangbanger Only by association, though -- imo. 1912-17, 1919-29, 1931 & 1936-38: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/Im_cws_logo_1912.gif I'd post some others with similarities (the descending "S-o-x" has been the primary logo format for the Chi Sox since the early 1900s) to their current logo, but the pics are too big. Here's the link at sportslogos.net. I'd actually love to see them use this one I posted, if my vote mattered. The Pirates, Nationals, and Jays logos are all awful as well Sorry, you brought out my inner geek with baseball history/logos. I love the Pirates name & logo, and it wasn't until recently that I learned the genesis of their name. My post is going to be super-long, and I apologize, but I love this team name (excerpt, Wikipedia): In 1890, they merged with the Players' League franchise in the city after that league folded. Most of the rebel league's player contracts were assigned to National League and American Association clubs, mostly to their previous clubs provided they had been "reserved" by their former teams' owners. Highly regarded second baseman Lou Bierbauer (b-reference.com page),who had previously played with the Philadelphia Athletics of the American Association, was awarded to the Alleghenys on the grounds that the Athletics had not reserved him. This led to loud protests by the Athletics, and in an official complaint, an A.A. official claimed the Alleghenys' actions were "piratical."[3][/sup] This incident (which is discussed at some length in The Beer and Whisky League[/i], by David Nemec, 1994) quickly accelerated into a schism between the leagues that contributed to the demise of the A.A. Although the Alleghenys were never found guilty of wrongdoing, they made sport of being denounced for being "piratical" by renaming themselves "the Pirates" for the 1890 season.[2][/sup] The nickname was first acknowledged on the team's uniforms in 1912. That same season of 1890, the team experienced their worst season record in franchise history going 23-113 [4][/sup]. In 1900, the Pirates picked up several players from the defunct Louisville Colonels club, which shared an owner with Pittsburgh, when the N.L. contracted from 12 to 8 teams after the 1899 season. Despite their nickname, the Pirates at least waited until Louisville had folded, unlike what happened in 1899 to the Cleveland Spiders and, to a lesser extent, the Baltimore Orioles, who were also part of two-team ownerships. That's such a cool way to get a nickname.

I played MLB 2K8 a little on the Wii. You have to flick the Wiimote for every pitch and swing. That really sucks. Is there any way around this? There were valid complaints about the lack of games for the Wii for the first year or so, but they are now starting to churn out some good stuff to play on a fairly regular basis. Thanks for weighing in (& to everyone). I just don't want to get trapped with the novelty of the Wiimote, but I think the system itself is a fine one.

As long as the Indians represented by the team name/mascot don't go overboard, I really don't have a problem with it. Please do me a favor and answer the question my post poses. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif If the caricature were of an African American man, it might hit a little closer to home. It's just that we've had so very many absurd representations of Native Americans in comics, illustrations & cartoons that Chief Wahoo just seems to fit in with the standard issue Narive American depiction. You mean like this one? http://z.about.com/d/cleveland/1/0/X/U/-/-/logo2.jpg This was my dad's favorite MLB logo growing up; he just thought it was so cool. My dad is extremely conscious of p.c.-ness (for lack of a better term), caucasian, and probably one of the first people that'd agree that American Indians have every right to be offended by the exploitation of their history for team gear. It's always a bit startling to me to remember that this is still the official image the Cleveland Indians put out there. I'd love to hear others' feelings on this. I have no problem with their team name, and the logo doesn't offend me personally. But isn't this akin to having a team named the Cleveland Negroes with the following as a logo? http://www.scurvoriginalz.com/image/29937639.jpg

After what had happened to Steve Irwin, the franchise didn't want to have any association with rays that aren't coming directly from the sun, hence the name change. Not true. I don't recall hearing anything about wanting to move away from the animal. http://sportswrap.berecruited.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/rays.jpg

So I guess that means Hardy isn't really injury prone either. You are correct, sir. I have to agree with NDOGG -- how many people consider him injury prone? I hadn't even heard that since his injury-prone-ness of mashing up his ankle on Sal Fasano's shinguard.

I'll take one hit, 4 BB, and one run in 3 innings any day of the week. All things being equal, the walks aren't going to be damaging if you don't give up hits and strike guys out. endaround beat me to what I wanted to say. McClung's performance (& my question) had nothing to do with Suppan's performance, and little to do with the fact that Seth only gave up one run.

Sheets seems healthy this year, so far. I don't agree with this at all. Perhaps I need my 'sky is falling' cap, too, but I'm extremely concerned that Ben is right on the verge of some serious shoulder trouble. I can't emphasize enough how wrong I hope I am.

Hinton meanwhile has a very Turnbow-esque ERA of 15.43 with runners on base, 21.00 with runners in scoring position this season. I think that's way too much an extreme to tell you anything aside from that he's had some real bad luck so far in said situation(s). If he goes a couple appearances where he's very good in these situations, his ERA (which is an unreliable way to gauge pitchers anyway) will drop drastically, and it won't tell us much, either.

I couldn't disagree more. Fittingly, Gallardo's knee(-jerk) injury has produced a bevy of knee-jerk responses.

As for the Marlins game, the Brewers offense scored two runs on five hits in 10 innings in that game. McClung is not the one to point the finger at there. I don't think anyone was blaming him for the loss, instead pointing out that he pitched poorly. Also, sure he struck out a bunch of guys at Wrigley, but isn't a BB more damaging than a K is positive?