TooLiveBrew

Do you regard Turnbow as a good deal at $3 mil.? The two really aren't that dissimilar. I agree it's not a ton of money, but with a smaller payroll, everything is obviously more magnified.

colby - Smithwick's (fyi, pronounced - "smith-ick's") is indeed an Irish Ale. I like that beer, too - so many good choices. EDIT: Interesting sidenote...Smithwick's is brewed by Guinness (as is the aforementioned Harp, another solid choice)

my bad, good call sam (& others) http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/foot%20in%20mouth.gif

[Linebrink's] performance here isn't really the best indicator of what he has done overall. no, but it's an indicator of how he's declined over the last year or two. While I'd love to take a chance on him, I wouldn't want it to be for $3-ish million (TBow price). I'd really love for us to keep King on board, to have another lefty out of the 'pen. Shouse is just so valuable right now. If our 'pen can include: Shouse, Wise (who may be too pricey to justify keeping), King, TBow, Vargas, McClung, I think that's not a bad start. The trouble is going to be finding a closer - I just don't want our higher-leverage situations to be a crapshoot with TBow. I honestly wouldn't object to simply pitching the hot hand to close games in '08, but I definitely don't trust leaving that to our current manager.

mmm....St. Paulie... I didn't realize that about the Pac NW, Game, thanks. There are even billboards, come to think of it, that tout how Budweiser uses local hops. I didn't put two & two together. This also makes me suspicious of their "we travel the world looking for the best hops" claim. I hate Bud as a company, and it's not just a regional thing (though that plays a role). They just seem so smarmy.

me too, logan.

mr. nitpick, cheking in: Jenks's option for next year is $9 mil., and we already have the "Every position save C home-grown" thing this year, whenever the corners of the OF are Jenks & Hart. I sincerely hope that we can make a change & upgrade at C. Like you said, Estrada's defense tends to negate his average to above-average offense (even with his horrid approach, he's still alright) - and some OBP would be delicious. As for the 'pen, yikes. No idea what Melvin has in the plans, but he's got a ton of work to do. Turnbow proves once again that giving big money to RPs is a huge crapshoot, and unless you know the guy's a sure thing (Rivera/Hoffman), it's a really bad idea. TBow's $3.2 mil for 2008 is going to hurt a bit. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see him shipped if they can get even an equal value in return - I'd bet his stats still indicate he's valuable to many teams. Shouse hits last year of arbitration, so he'll likely be back, perhaps with a two-year deal (just speculation). Linebrink's deal is up, and I wouldn't dare to guess either way. He probably could be had for relatively cheap, but if "relatively cheap" = appx. Turnbow's deal, then I'd say it's best to let him walk. Cordero has got to be gone, I just don't think you can spend that much on a position with such little actual in-game action (though I know a closer is valuable) when you have the budget of the Crew. Even so, I just wouldn't want to do a deal longer than two years with CoCo, and he's likely to get 3 or more on the FA market. While I'd love for the Crew to non-tender Mench, I'd guess he'll be back, and we'll see a Gross/Mench platoon. Hopefully, we can get ahold of a different LH-hitting specialist.

I do most often prefer an import or micro brew over a domestic though that is for sure. Amen. Domestics are so incredibly watered-down, they almost literally deserve their own category - like how Jose Cuervo is technically not tequila. I can drink Miller Lite, or whatever, if there's a need for a mass quantity, but when not, I just prefer more flavor. And to those talking about how beer in green bottles is affected by said bottle - huh? The beer itself is what you dislike - the color of bottle has nothing to do with it. Nearly every beer I enjoy comes in a brown bottle, but that doesn't mean the reason I don't like, say, Corona, is because its bottle is clear. Anyone tried Beck's? It's probably the best lower-cost import beer (it's a German lager, so know that heading in), and comes in green bottles. Definitely one of my favorites.

You're a bit biased here, bkbc. I don't think at all that we have the obvious highest overall talent level in the division. At this point in the year, taking pitching into the equation, I think the edge there goes to the Cubs - as hard as that is to admit. Do we have the highest number of young(er) and/or up-and-coming players? Unquestionably. But let's not forget that the Cubs have a pretty nice set of established star veterans, and to augment that they have a solid group of role players (position-player-wise). We have advantages over them at certain positions, but I'd say overall our best outcome is a wash. I know the season can be frustrating, and I'm certainly guilty of letting that color my emotions at times. But to suggest that this team was or is or at any time this year will run down 90 wins is placing the expectations too high - thus your feelings of underachievement. Don't let your own slightly overblown expectations (not meant to offend, just don't know how else to say it) make a villain of Yost. While his poor in-game decisions have definitely resulted in some losses at this point (don't know the metric, but if there's one that converts errors to runs to losses, I'm sure we can agree that Ned's mistakes have added up, too), he certainly hasn't been responsible for more than - at most - maybe 5. The problem with that, even though it's such a small number, is that our division is so tight. Thankfully the Cards finally look to be in a swoon (at the wrong time of year), but being neck-and-neck with the Cubs magnifies everything. I don't know whether I do or don't agree with your 'more harm than good' categorization, but I do agree with you that regardless of the outcome, an upgrade at the manager position will be available this offseason - and that it's time to make a change. Trouble for me is that I don't get to watch enough outside coaching to really have a feel for different guys' strategies. I know Automator has mentioned Davey Johnson, and that BTA has followed the Orioles - what's Johnson's strategy like - consistent decision-making, or plaaying hunches? Anyone else know more about a guy than, "He coached the _____s"?

I think it's crazy that not only did stoops & (my boy) areacodes post the same comment within one minute of one another, but they have the same avatar, too... http://www.impawards.com/tv/posters/twilight_zone.jpg

At what point is one option drastically different enough to warrant a move. When the current option proves - time after time - that he has an incredibly difficult time identifying the correct move in many different situations.

If that is the case then are we necessarily going to see a manager that manages differently enough to make a big impact on wins and loses While you dismiss the possibility of an intelligent hiring being able to decrease the number of 'less-than-ideal situations created' as a sort of circumstantial crapshoot, I beg to differ. I understand how you feel that most other managers also make questionable moves - what I fail to comprehend is how you write off Yost's continual failings as, "well, other managers make mistakes too." It really has nothing to do with my critique(s) of him, and it doesn't relate to the chance to upgrade at the manager position at all. Just because a position on the team is x-teenth out of thrity in MLB (and not dead last or in the bottom five) is no reason to not search for an upgrade at said position.

I am just saying that if we looked at any other manager in the league with this much scrutiny we would probably find many of the same mistakes. Does this make them acceptable? Or less of a negative impact on uor chances at a playoff shot?

Everyone and their mother knew[/knows] that ______ was going to[/will] have another horrible ________, except Ned. Edited for genericizing (not sure if that's a word!), but this is essentially the main problem with this manager.

logan, what you and other Yost apologists miss (at least in regards to me, personally) is that I don't place the entirety of the blame on the manager. However, you continue to ignore the validity of legitimate Yost criticisms, and lump anything into this, "Ya'll's sum hatas!" type arguments. Please don't tell me I'm ignorant. One reason why I have so many complaints with Yost is that I follow this team very closely, every single day, and see the repeated mistakes. Just because you think Yost is a good manager doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't has on "Yost-hate blinders." It's equally possible that you have on some kind of 'No matter how many games/situations he bungles, Yost is still fine' blinders, yet I don't find it necessary to make such a ridiculous claim.

bsg, I watched that game, and really don't get your gripe. He played the lefty-righty matchup by batting Munson - is it his fault that Scott (who usually turns in great ABs) chased a first pitch - or that Lamb didn't go to the plate on an insanely slow roller off the end of the bat - or that Munson grounded into a DP? I just don't see how the manager playing his best matchups, and then the players not executing, is Coop's fault. EDIT: Munson was Cooper's last LH batter left on the bench

rwa - Nice! One with which I'm already familiar, and happily so. Deschutes Brewery Haven't tried their Stout yet, but I love the Cascade Ale, and look forward to trying more!

thanks, 7600 - I actually almost bought the Heineken mini-keg tonight. My only reservations were: how many, and how tasty? So you've covered both, and my next beer purchase will likely be the mini-keg. Thanks!

In no way is this intended to take the place of, or anything away from, the Drunk Thread. However, having recently relocated to the Northwest, every time I go out to buy beer, I stand in front of the cooler aisle, pacing up & down, examining bottle after bottle & case after case, mostly due to the fact that I can no longer simply grab a 12-er of New Glarus/Capital, make a mix-&-match 6-pack of Sprecher, or grab a growler from the Great Dane. Although I'm being forced to discover new breweries & beers (which, by the way, is not a bad thing!), so far, so good. My hope is that this thread can be both a 'Try this beer,' and 'Avoid this beer,' service - though not simply limited to that. Please link any relevant information for breweries or specific brews, as one goal here is to help people try new stuff and expand their tastes. So, with that in mind, my purchase this evening (while watching the Cubs-Astros game on WGN) is from Full Sail Brewing Co.: Pale Ale - Slightly hoppy & slightly bitter, clean taste, with only a slight after-taste. Not as powerful as an IPA, but sort of a toned-down version of one (in a good way). This is the first time I've ever tried anything from Full Sail, but they are also responsible for Session Lager, a slightly more well-known brew in the region, and very well-regarded. Given the quality of the Pale Ale, I definitely trust this brewery now, so I'm more inclined to try their stuff. So, bottoms up, and pass along what you've learned! p.s. -- I'll be the first to admit that I have little to no 'beer-cabulary' - that is, the technical terminology of describing and/or reviewing beer. However, don't be afraid to make up your own words and terms to describe whatever it is you want. Likewise, don't shy away from using official language/terminology if you know it. Any and all beers are welcome, this is an equal-opportunity-beereview (if there already is a 'Beer Thread', I apologize, but when I searched, I didn't find one...) EDIT: Thank you to whoever fixed my signature in this post. It was awful -- thanks mods http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Welcome back, H4P - and great post. Also... I watched a guy like Bill Hall blossom (yes, I know he's wilting lately) into a great player. Awesome wordplay. I'm a geek, sure, but I love it!

I didn't get a chance to view the game today, but it sounds like the issue is that even though it was painfully clear TBow wasn't working, Yost refused to try something else. Especially relevant is Derrick working after pitching yesterday - which has already been well-covered. Yes, perhaps Wise hasn't been delicious - but when Turnbow is off, he's off (sounds like this was the case today) - but why not make the move to try something else? Sure, maybe Wise wouldn't have had success, but Turnbow was visibly not going to, either, and no surprise - he didn't. Why leave your players/team in a situation that is less than your best chance to win? Even if some feel Wise was an equal option to Turnbow's suckiness, at least you try to change the scenario for your team by making a change away from a pitcher who clearly was in trouble. I agree Ned falls into his so-called "_th inning guys" rut far too often. Yes, Linebrink wasn't available, nor was Shouse, but both McClung (I think) and Wise should have been, so why not try another avenue - when it's painfully obvious the (then) current one isn't working? (btw, this is by no means an endorsement for McClung - just stating he was possibly available) Fwiw, the whole 'well-paid veterans' logic is identical to the '_th inning guy' logic, and should not be endorsed in any situation. When there's a better option available, and each game is so important, you can't coddle guys' egos. EDIT: Perhaps CoCo was another choice

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/apollo/images/apo8.gif http://www.kosmic-kabbalah.com/images-cards_envelopes/infinite_eight.jpg

I was in my house (at the time) on Mifflin St., I'd skipped my morning class, and came out to turn on some CNN at about 9am central time. I never could've imagined what I was about to see, and I just remember sitting in complete silence and shock for what seemed like (and really was) hours on end. I remember that the 2d tower had just been hit around the time (honestly can't remember if it was shortly before or after I tuned in) I flipped on the TV. Even now as I type my heart just seems to slow and I have a surreal sensation. Simply unbelievable and unforgettable tragedy. In some ways, I can't believe it's six years ago, and in others, it feels like eons since it happened. My gf was born & raised in NJ, and she's told me the drive across the bridge to the city will never be the same for her without the formerly familiar sight of the two towers. I'd really honestly hoped that I would never have an answer to a question like, "Where were you when Kennedy/King/Lennon was shot/Pearl Harbor was attacked..." Guess in retrospect that was pretty naive, but I suppose that's what being young will do to/for you. http://www.911fsa.org/images/wtc_jw2_torn.jpg

C'mon YoGa - we need your solid start today.

How many players whose careers tailed off in their mid 30's would have played an additional 5 to 10 years if they had taken these "supplements"? The "legal/illegal" argument holds no water with me - the issue is that it creates a competitve advantage that not all players have or have had in the history of the game. This is perhaps the most eloquent argument I have ever encountered regarding HGH. A+ post, and thanks for sharing your better knowledge and understanding of PEDs (HGH in particular). I had no idea why HGH couldn't be reliably tested, and now I do. Thank you for that post.