TooLiveBrew

I really, really, honestly think that offering YoGa, Braun/Hall, + Jenkins for him would get this done. In addition, I'd bet he's got at least one year of arbitration left. Perhaps it'd take a tad more than what I mentioned, but if so, throw in Clark or Gross, and ask for Taylor Tankersley in additon. He's a young LH RP who had a nice 2006. Here's his stat link:www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Taylor-Tankersley.shtml If my idea is totally asinine, will somebody please tell me? I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!!! Seriously though, I feel crazy for thinking this idea is as reasonably, objectively do-able as I do. Especially since I think it's crazy good.

I think I want to make non-sexual love with twobrewers!!! If only more fans could have such a level-headed mentality. There's just no need to panic. To be honest, I think the "$10 million puzzle piece" Mark A. referred to is a SP. Who that is, I have no clue. If we can add a solid producer to play either LF or CF, great (Lofton, etc). If not, there's no reason to worry and hurry. Braun is going to be ready sooner than we know, and around that time, YoGa, Inman, Rogers, etc will be ready to pitch in MLB. To quote Homer Simpson, to his growling stomach: "Paaatiennnce, my pet...."

I hear you, but who then? We clearly need a speed guy off the bench for late innings situations, etc. I just don't know that there are affordable options. The Shannon Stewart rumor was shot down by Melvin, and that would have been an expensive replacement. All's well and good to hope that AAA will help Gwynn become a more consistent hitter. I think it's clear AAA helped Hart in 2006. But to what, exactly, does Gwynn project? Is he a viable option as an everyday MLB CF? If not, utilize his stengths (speed, D) to help the Brewers win now and in the future. Injuries are a part of the game, and it's not unreasonable to estimate 200 or more MLB ABs for him in 2007 (Gross got 208 in 2006). Adding in his value for non-hitting situations, I can't find a better option than Gwynn

Ok, so Counsell fills the middle INF/SS backup, so who next? If most people agree that ZachJack is not going to be a capable MLB LHP (which I obviously do not), then do we think adding another is a priority? I personally do. I still stick with renewing Cirillo, and I think having Gwynn Jr. fill out the bench is a great bargain for what he brings. I know TGJ is not too popular on this site, but I think his value is overlooked. I don't think anyone is suggesting he's going to be a big OPS guy, but for the near future, we know his D is more than MLB ready, and his speed is a big plus.

I guess I base my assesment of Jackson on seeing him throw in person a few times last year. While he was no ace, he was much better than Eveland or Hendrickson. I know you have your stats to suggest otherwise, but baseball comes down to gut instincts, and I happen to agree with Melvin's regarding Jackson. Jackson will be a better pitcher in 2007. I'm confident in that. What I fail to understand about your idea is that it doesn't hurt to try him out on Opening Day. Like I said originally, if he doesn't succeed, then send him to AAA. Eveland is great proof that AAA success means squat once you get to the show. Additionally, there's much, much more to baseball than statistics

FINKLE IS EINHORN!!!

Given that you always chime in with one-liners that criticize the thread, I'll go on

I made sure to mention that ZachJack can serve as a long reliever AND compete for a starting spot. In any event, I disagree that having him in the pen is a waste of a service year. IMO, you waste a guy when you sit him in AAA when he can be of service to your MLB club. We control his contract for many years, there's no need to worry about that. Versatility is a great quality. If Jackson can't handle the LR & Spot Starter role, send him back down. By your logic, we would have left Bill Hall in AAA in 2005, because he would only waste a big league service year as a utility-man. Getting Bill on the field served to help develop one of the better sluggers in MLB. ZachJack sped his way through the minors, and another year there is not as much of a challenge for him to improve. Like I said, if he proves not up to the challenge yet, send him back down. I firmly believe he can help the Brewers in 2007 as a LHP out of the pen, and be a quality, cheap 5th/6th starter

Thanks, and I agree with you on the state of flux for the roster

Doug Melvin shows a strong attention to detail in trades, consistently getting not just one, but typically two or three players to cover more than just one area of need. Based on a roster of: SP - Sheets, Cap, Bush, Vargas, CV RP - Shouse, Wise, Capellan, TBow, Aquino, CoCo OF - Hall, Hart, Gross, Jenkins IF - Koskie, Hardy, Weeks, Fielder, Estrada, Miller Who should Doug E. Doug bring in to serve as the bench & utility players? The group above accounts for 21 of the 25 roster spots. I kept a couple players on who may be gone by the end of next week for the sake of the hypothetical. What I'm concerned about are the other 4-5 spots to give regulars days off, pinch run, etc. My personal votes are: Jeff Cirillo - RH batter, all INF spots except SS are realistic Gwynn Jr. - LH batter, pinch-running speed & def. sub ZachJack - LH long reliever/spot starter/competition for CV FA/Trade-acquired SS/Middle INF - In case Hardy & Hall are injured, also could fill PR role Limit discussion to those 4 or 5 bench spots, please don't take this to a "where should our starters play" debate. I also suggest Jose Vizcaino or a guy like him as that extra middle INF(I see now that the Crew are close to signing Craig Counsell, that works too). Jackson would give the pen more flexibility, being the 2d lefty, and it gives him a chance to pitch at the MLB level, while still competing for a starting role. I left Mench & Clark off the 25-man, since their names are being mentioned as essentially out the door. I didn't include Braun because he can't play short, and I think his role on the 2007 25-man comes if Koskie is injured or traded.

Great point, GAME05. The LAAs have been his rumored destination nearly every year this talk comes up. They fit his AL desire, have a strong contingent of Latin players, and oh yeah by the way every AL West team would petition to change leagues or divisions so they wouldn't have to face the 3-4 of Manny to Vlad. Holy crap that's a sick combo. Especially good point about Ervin Santana. Don't know quite why he's available/being shopped, but since he is, it's gonna be tough for a better deal to come along. The LAAs can take on almost all of ManRam's current salary, and are one of the few teams that could afford to extend him, as well.

Rickie Weeks proved himself in the field once 2006 really got rolling, and proved he is a viable leadoff hitter as well (.363 OBP is solid). He has the speed preferred in that lineup slot. Moving him makes little to no sense -- many people on this site love to hang their hat on the "exceeds his positional peers' production" argument, and that certainly fits with Weeks. He has the athletic ability and range of Roberto Alomar, but has quite a way to go with his accuracy - both in throwing and fielding. But I for one saw DRAMATIC improvement during the 2006 season for Weeks in the field. Just because someone is fast and athletic does not mean they can play OF, especially CF. That's the main reason the Angels went out & overpaid for Matthews. Angels fans/observers often noted that Figgins would take incorrect routes to balls. Typically, speed & athleticism can compensate, but not always, and clearly not enough even for the lightning fast Figgins, who LAA now views as expendable. People assume too much on this site when they note how "easy" CF is to play, especially calling it easier than a corner spot. I know most of us played ball at some point in our lives, and for the rest of you former/current outfielders, I don't think I'm the only one that'll stand up for CF being the biggest responsibility and challenge out of the 3 OF spots. Rickie is finally getting adjusted to the difficult challenge of playing a middle IF MLB spot. Melvin & Yost have said time & time again he's the 2B for now & the future. He's going to be a special player at 2B, moving him to CF would just make so little sense

Dealing one of our young pitching prospects, like ZachJack makes absolutely no sense if it doesn't return a real offensive force. Beltre is what we already have. He strikes out a lot, doesn't walk much at all, and his reputation clings to one year, a contract year, where he got p-a-i-d. I know he's "above average" and a decent defender. Koskie's D is better, and his offense is similar. I understand that K's health is one reason this deal is being tossed around on here, but we have a #5 overall draft pick at 3B, or Bill Hall, in case of injury. Spending as much money as we would have to on Beltre, plus the probability of having to give up a top pitching prospect makes zero sense for either the short or the long term. If we were the Yankees, and this guy actually drew more than 35-45 BBs per season, then I'd be all for it. He's out there everyday (at least 156 games for the past 5 seasons), plays good D, and has nice pop. And if my memory serves, he can run a bit too (not SB-wise). He's nice, but not worth altering our organizational strategy over.

Manny has all but explicitly stated he will not ok a trade to an NL team. His quote was to the affect of "I'm familiar with the AL pitching staffs, so I don't want to go to the NL." Plus his salary is ludicrous for the Crew, and his D sucks.

I would imagine the Dodgers would have some interest in Jenkins, although I agree that it'd take more than him to net Penny. Losing Drew leaves the Dodgers with no experienced RF. Jenks went to USC, don't know if that factors in much. I think I like the idea; I don't know Penny's injury history, but it seems he has a seasoned arm without overwork. That limited no-trade clause probably means Penny was/is able to make a list of a few teams (8-10?) to which he cannot be traded. He can always waive that clause, though. I wouldn't want to throw in much more than Jenkins, and I'd bet that, for Penny, the Dodgers would get better offers. I'll leave it up to everyone else to toss some additional names around. I will say this -- adding Ramon E. Martinez (IF utilityman, career .270 BA, doesn't K much, doesn't draw many BBs a la Estrada) as our extra piece would function very nicely

twobrew, I'd swing that deal quick as a hiccup. Trouble is, Hardy's an unproven commodity. The BoSux can afford to overpay for Julio Lugo or someone like him. Plus, a Manny Ramirez trade looms, seemingly inevitably, and that could net them a top SS & SP/OF.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/roll.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/roll.gif

Hard not to love that guy! I don't think we can expect anything much more than a solid middle reliever for Jenks (which would be fine, as long as the vast majority of his salary went along to the south side). To get a Garcia or Vazquez, a prospect, and a pretty good one, would probably have to be in the mix. I, for one, am not in favor of dealing a CV, Inman, or whatever just to land a starter. There are still solid 4/5 FA pitchers available. If Turnbow could generate any interest (IF), or Clark seems like a decent choice for ChiSox, cool. But I'd be willing to bet Kenny Williams won't bite. He'll be getting better offers for both of those pitchers, and the way the Crew could separate from the pack is to cough up a prospect that we'd regret in the long run. If the ChiSox are desperate (IF), we can swing a deal. If not, I think there are better options elsewhere. The Yanks proved for years that trading away your young guys tends to not work out

Pierre's defense was the #1 sticking point that all Brewerfan was talking about! And he's had an off-year, last year (unlike all these FAs who mysteriously manage to harness their talent, but only in a contract year). I feel like nothing wil satisfy the throngs as a leadoff man, unless he hits 28 HRs, and has an OBP of .386 If Jenkins is counted as one that has a decent trading value (and many "experts" do), it seems reasonable he can net a proven SP. If Davis could net Figgins, it's not just change for change's sake. We fill a big need for leadoff and CF (or wherever), and maintain/obtain reliability in the pitching rotation.

Sorry, had no idea I was stepping on someone else's toes. To me, the originator of the thread, this seems like a perfect situation for locking. It's not an insult, I just made a simple mistake in not finding this article already referenced. I know I thought, "Man, no one has posted this article yet", when I posted the thread. It's good to know both that someone else had already posted the story, and that someone was there to pick up my mistake. I LOVE THIS SITE!!!!!

That's a good point, but stats aside, I noticed Rivera as a productive hitter this year. Although he did have a small sample space, I wondered constantly after he was called up why Moeller was not released earlier in 2006. I stand by the thought that Rivera is the better option. He's way more affordable, and his .268 BA (142 ABs) to Zaun's .272 (290 ABs) suggests that he is at least as competent a hitter as Zaun. Zaun's a decent hitter behind the dish, but so is Rivera - who is 30 to Zaun's 36 next year. This whole situation just seems better left alone. p.s. - Pudge, Jorge Posada, Paul Lo Duca, and Michael Barrett are all eligible for FA after 2007. I understand not all will hit the market. However, catcher is one position I feel totally comfortable overspending in a little to get a proven producer on both O & D

Wayne Huizenga, former Marlins owner. Close, though http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

From following the Brewers closely, with no particular attention payed to our catching situation, I got the strong impression that the duo of Miller & Rivera was set for the 2007 season. In addition to a solid backup C OPS of .783, Rivera was one of the few Brewers that produced with RISP: BA: .290 RBI: 16 (in 31 ABs) If Zaun is an option, he certainly could stick around, as mentioned, after Miller. But Zaun only managed to hit .225 w/RISP in 2006. This is not a brewerfan.net token shoot-down of an idea, but is Zaun really that much better than Rivera? I just don't see why we'd need to spend money in that area, an area which, up until now had not been discussed by management or ownership as an area where we're going to spend. Rivera's under contract until 2009, and each season is at or under $400,000. I just don't see Zaun being worth the big difference in money he's going to take to land. He seems kind of like Graffy in that he's not a star, but will have a chance to start somewhere, and will get starter money.

I agree, cancer, that fire isn't a bad thing, and I'm definitely not advocating letting G walk, in this hypothetical situation. My personal preference, based entirely on Loretta being the better hitter, and Milwaukee favorite, would be Mark L. Just threw the confrontation out there to see if anyone else had seen/heard. (But there may also be a reason - other than juorneyman status - that he's played for 6 teams in 9 seasons)

A good friend of mine went to a game at Miller in the 2d half last year. This guy is as fair as it gets, and he called me after the game bewildered. It arose from an inf pop-up, and had something to do with whose ball it was -- 2B's or 1B's, and I guess Graffy was not happy with Fielder, be it what was said or who caught the ball. The reason I posted this was to see if anyone else caught this. From what I have been told, it was yelling in his face, severly aggravated. I'm not voting to evaluate TG completely on this one incident, but my bud told me the mini-rift flared up again later in the game, but not as blatantly as the first time. I don't see it as the end-all on Graffy, but if he can't get along with our franchise player, maybe he won't want to be here