LouisEly

You can always be moved from catcher to 3B (see: Surhoff, BJ) or 2B (see: Biggio, Craig). If Lawrie can have a career similar to either of those two, whether at C or infield, it will be a great pick.

Gillespie with his 30th(!) double on the year. OPS still sitting just under .900. While I wish it could have been him who was sent to the Indians instead of LaPorta, he is doing nothing to make people think he can't be a starting major league OF. Still a lot of value there. The big fella Katin with #13 today, on top of going 3-5 with two walks in the doubleheader yesterday. He, like TGJ, has value for the right team.

I find it hard to believe that if CC helped get the Brewers to the playoffs that the additional home game revenue would more than pay for the $5M that he is taking on. By my estimates, the tickets alone for one home playoff game (ticket prices for playoff games would probably be double what they are regular season) would amount to at least $1.5M (say a $40 average ticket price x 40,000 tickets = $1.6M). Then add in parking, concessions, souveniers... revenue would have to be at least $2M per home playoff game. Plus whatever share of TV revenue they would get. I hardly think that they will lose money on the deal if they make the playoffs.

Not sure if the WV box score is correct, but they list Gindl at 3B, Wheeler at RF, Wilson at LF. They also list Fryer at C - perhaps someone was reading this board? Hope that last one is correct; Fryer has a much better shot if he can stick at C than as a corner OF.

Even though LaPorta and one of Brantley/Green are gone, the Brewers still have 18 of their top 20 prospects. And they have kept all of their top 20 prospects at the two positions that have the most trade value - pitching and catching. The cupboards are hardly bare. Lots of mid-level lefty starter prospects (Hammond, Miller, Welch, Wright, Narron) that could be packaged with another corner OF prospect for a bullpen upgrade over Mota, and still retain most of their top 20 prospects.

I really hope this is the case (and that the scouting reports are correct), but I don't think it would be too detrimental to his hitting development if he would catch just one game a week. Maybe he's the next Charlie Moore. He could have a long career in the majors if he could hit well enough (and be athletic enough) to be a 2nd/3rd catcher and 5th OF. But I don't want to see his catching skills deteriorate because he isn't getting any reps there. Any inside info on what the Brewers really think of him would be appreciated.

If I had to pick one, I think I would pick Brantley as my preference to lose. It still is questionable if he can really play CF, and if he can't then he's stuck in that same logjam behind Braun, Hart, Gamel, Gillespie, Nelson, etc., for those corner OF spots. The Brewers could really use a LH 3B, so I hope Green is the one who stays. On the bright side, it is looking more and more like they will not be losing Lucroy, and I think as a C he would have more trade value than Brantley or Green if he can maintain this level of hitting in AA. Look at the haul that ATL got for Saltalamacchia.

How did I know a picture of those two clowns would end up in this thread? Sorry Joel, won't be able to make it up this year. When you see what I am doing this weekend (thread to come later this week) you will understand why. (P.S. - did you get a new cell phone #? I was at Thursday's game - an enjoyable pounding of the Cubs - and I called you but it said it was not in service or something.)

So between this and the CC trade, does this make the Brewers' pitching WOAH SOLVDD? Someone had to say it.

Shapiro's comment of the player "has an outside shot at being an everyday major leaguer," can be taken an number of different ways. The way I take that comment is that it means that the player is at the low level of the minors (A ball or rookie) and has high potential - i.e. they haven't proven they can make the jump from A to AA, considered the most difficult jump in the minors. Thus Green (unfortunately), Brewer (hopefully), Braddock (hopefully not), Lucroy (hopefully not), Periad, Anundsen, Gindl, Scarpetta, Zarraga, and Nieves most likely fit the bill. With the reports that they had scouts at BC, my bet is on one of the first four. The good news is that the worst possible scenario is that we still keep two of Green, Braddock, and Lucroy. I can live with that. Edit - the "everyday" comment slipped by me; thus probably meaning a position player, thus probably Green, Lucroy, or Brewer. Hopefully Brewer...

The "different timelines" thing suggest a couple of things to me: 1) If it is one year after they are signed before they can be traded instead of one year after they are drafted, it could involve a technicality that could mean someone else picked last year could be on the list (but didn't sign right away). Scarpetta? Zarraga? B) More likely, there is language in the deal that "if you don't select (said player) by (a certain date), we reserve the right to trade him and remove him from the list". Meaning that Melvin is not done looking at trades, and something else is in the works. 3) Given that the PTBNL needs to be named within six months, that eliminates anyone in this years draft class. With the influx of pitching drafted this year, I hope it is someone like Anundsen, Periad, Scarpetta, or Hand. They can be replaced more easily than Green.

I watched it this year (only because I was staying with a friend who knew it was on), and I have to say that the announcer authored perhaps the best quote I have ever heard: "The passion is raw... but the hot dogs are cooked!" That has to go on a t-shirt. That is a top-10 quote that will live in infamy.

Well, if it were a top prospect I was hoping it would be Escobar, but I can live with LaPorta. I predicted that it wouldn't take more than Weeks/Gillespie/Pena to get it done, and Gillespie/Pena is a lot greater than Jackson/Bryson, and Weeks vs LaPorta is tough to judge - either could still be a star and aren't too far apart in age; LaPorta has mashed so far, but so did Weeks in the minors. Depends on the PTBNL, whom agent39 claims is an "impact player". We'll see, but so far I think LaPorta/Jackson/Bryson/PTBNL is no more value than Weeks/Gillespie/Pena is. Again, we don't know whom the PTBNL is (they say scouts were at B.C., so hopefully it is Brewer or Cain and not Green), but so far this trade has only involved one of their top 20-25 prospects, and I can live with that. Also, they needed to include value to get CC this early, thus the PTBNL. The fact that they kept Gamel and traded LaPorta may signal that they need to keep leftys because Prince may not be a Brewer too much longer (i.e. beyond 2009). Props to X for his reminder that LaPorta is a Boras client, so this may have been inevitable. Gamel could move to 1B to replace Fielder who is dealt for a load including pitching to replace CC and/or Sheets and a 3B if indeed they trade Green. Remember, they still have a HUGE trading chip in Fielder to replace anyone they may trade away. The way the starters have been pitching, my vote would be to ride the hot hands of Bush and McClung and send Suppan to the pen for the time being and DFA Mota. Chances are that Stetter or CV will be on their way back to Nashville (since they have options) and Mota keeps his job. One last thing... if the wheels fall off in July for some reason, could they turn around and trade CC on July 31st?

Well, of the three OF starters, Braun is most deserving so take that for what it is worth. Hardy's offensive push came about two weeks too late. Personally, I think Hardy is more deserving than Tejada. Hardy is smoking Tejada in OPS. Can't argue so much with Guzman, but I would have selected WAS's closer and went with Hardy (and not selected Cook of Colorado). It'll take some work to get Hart in there instead of Burrell or Wright. Let's get crackin'.

I'm very leery of trading a Laporta, Gamel, or Escobar along with adding another good piece or two for only 12ish starts from Sabathia, but i'm pretty damn sure that's hat it'll take Danzig, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. On one hand you are suggesting that it is not a good idea to give up a top prospect like those three for a rental, but on the other hand you are saying that someone will? So you are saying that there are stupid GMs out there who will do this? Are you suggesting that you are a better evaluator of talent than other GMs out there? You say that you shouldn't (thus the trade I propose), but then you say that won't work. You say what they shouldn't do... so what should they do? A couple of things to keep in mind: 1) All GMs look at talent differently. There is almost a Gestapo-esque decree on this board that everyone should look at talent and players the same way, but the reality is not all GMs and scouts do. 2) The Haren and Santana trades are not good comparators, because those teams knew they were getting full seasons out of those players. Not so with Sabathia. He is a two month rental, thus his value is based on about 12 starts. Therefore he will not command anywhere near the haul that was traded for those two. And as others have mentioned, the haul for those two really wasn't that great. There weren't any real sure-fire stud prospects in those deals (as for comparison, Gillespie has put up a much higher OPS in AA than Gonzalez, and Eveland and Smith weren't that highly though of). Just like there is a limited number of teams that would trade for Santana, there is a limited number of teams that will trade for Sabathia. 3) DM himself said that he is looking at "quantity" trades - that from another thread. This fits the bill of a quantity trade. 4) I highly doubt that any team will pony up more than the value of Weeks, Gillespie, and Pena. If it were a full season of Sabathia then I would agree that those three would not get it done, but it is just for two months. No one is going to give up a stud pitching prospect for a two-month rental. Cleveland needs to upgrade 2B, OF, and RP, and ML-ready players carry more value than A-ball prospects. Thus they will think long and hard about Weeks (still has a lot of upside, power, and OBP), Gillespie (his OPS in the Southern League most years would win MVP, but he's overshadowed by LaPorta and Gamel), and Pena (upper 90's with movement). That's a lot more talent that you think it is.

I'll never get why people consider previous season(s) when voting for all stars. I'll never get why All-Stars should be selected based on two months worth of performance, or less than a half-season of performance. I'll agree that All-Stars should not be selected based on what they did several years ago, but you have to include the second-half performance of the previous season because basing it on eight weeks of performance (voting started in MAY) is an even bigger joke.

The other big move I see the Brewers making would be sending Weeks and/or a top prospect or two to Colorado to acquire Fuentes and Ian Stewart. Fuentes gives them a closer and a lefty in the pen for the stretch run, and Stewart fills a longer-term need of a left-handed bat and a 3B of the future. I don't know what Stewart's defensive abilities are at 3B; if he is significantly better than Gamel defensively it could allow them to move Gamel to another position or to another organization for a top pitching prospect. And Stewart is a left-handed bat and right now he is blocked by Atkins and Barmes. Stewart could platoon with Hall when Branyan is gone. When Melvin makes moves he likes to acquire short and long-term needs, so Fuentes and Stewart fill the bill. Not sure what to give up here (probably pitching - they'll need a closer to replace Fuentes so Pena? If the trade Holliday then they may need OF prospects - Gillespie? Prolly have to throw in some starting pitching prospects like Periad & Wright). Don't know if Pena/Gillespie/Periad/Wright would get it done, but I would ask.

See, here's the thing with Sabathia: if negotiations aren't going anywhere, the Indians are the ones who are under the gun. If they can't resign him they know, and every team in major league baseball knows, his value becomes their comp picks. That's why teams aren't giving up the farm for a rental player anymore. Historically, looking at late first round picks there aren't a lot of superstars picked there. So I don't think any team will give a ton more than the value of the comp picks; it will be more about the organizational needs of the Indians and how well teams can meet their needs. Which brings me to: I know the Huntsville Stars have been talked up a lot but does anyone think a major-league Brewer might be dealt along with one of LaPorta/Gamel as well? Joel... that and the smoke comments - you're so close you can taste it! (It's dung! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif) What are the Indians biggest needs right now? Well, Jamey Carroll is their starting second baseman. And their outfield, outside of Sizemore, is Ben Francisco, David Dellucci, and Franklin Gutierrez. And Joe Borowski is their closer. 'Nuff said. The answer is simple - Weeks and Gillespie to CLE for Sabathia. Hall slides over to 2B, Dillon platoons with Branyan at 3B. Maybe throw in Pena, but I don't think teams will offer close to what Weeks value is in return. Heck, given Sabathia's contract demands I think Weeks and Gillespie might be overpaying. I don't think it will take a lot more than Weeks to get CC. Weeks, Pena, and Katin? If not Weeks, then Iribarren (replace Carroll), Pena (replace Borowski), Gillespie (replace Dellucci/Gutierrez), one of Narron/Hammond/Welch (lefty starter to replace CC), and maybe another throw-in (Katin? Wright?) would be a great deal for the Indians. They would get three top-15 prospects (Gillespie - #6/7, Pena - #9-12, Iribarren - #12-15) who would be upgrades over their current players at those positions plus a throw-in or two with value for a rental. I doubt they will get offered much more than that, especially with CC's contract demands and the value of the comp picks.

I don't like the words "player option". As stated earlier, that means doing well = opting out, doing poorly = stay and take a huge paycheck for lousy performance. Lose/lose there. And if he does opt out, does the team receive any compensation if he leaves? Unless Toronto is willing to pay a significant chunk of his contract if he doesn't opt out, I think I'd rather have the rental and take the picks if the rental leaves.

The big fella Katin with his 4th triple of the season - pretty impressive athleticism for a 6'1" 235lb dude. Supposedly has a great arm. Man, just a little more plate discipline and ol' "Gorman Deer" might be a top 10 prospect. Hard thing to teach, I know, but I'm not going to give up on him quite yet. Depending on how some teams look at him, he like Narron could be a "throw-in with value", especially to a team desperate for power willing to take a chance (KC? SF? SD?). Have the Brewers ever had an Arizona squad that wasn't horrible? Anyone ever resembling a prospect ever come out of there?

Nice to see Stefan Wilson finally getting some love - how about one for the smart guys! Too many draft picks on there. I didn't see 4th/5th/8th round picks debuting on the Power 50 in years past. I won't get excited about college players until they show something above rookie league. Dykstra's too high, and none of the other draft picks below him on the list should be there. Not yet at least. Question on Dennis - since he was drafted in 2006, how long before they have to protect him? Two years? Brewer and Ford aren't in my top 30. How Nelson isn't above Brewer is beyond me. Top 12 are solid though; below that is a lot of question marks. EDR must be in mourning. Taps for Chuckie F.

Lots of good stuff here the last couple of days. Some thoughts: 1) I would not put DM amongst the top 5 GMs in the game, but I would put him somewhere in that #6 to #12 range. Is he the best? No. Is he in the top half? Yes. B) While DM has not guided the team to more than 83 wins, when he took over they were on pace to be a VERY bad team for a long time. Look at this roster in 2002: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2002.shtml Look at that list of pitchers and name one talented pitcher on that team not named Ben Sheets. They had a couple decent bullpen guys in DeJean, King, Vizcaino, and a career year from VDLS, but as for starters other than Sheets they had GARBAGE. To get them to 83 wins starting with that lack of talent was pretty amazing. Look at how much talent he had to add in 2003 just to get them to 68 wins - sign Scott Podsednik, Eddie Perez, John Vander Wal, Royce Clayton, Brady Clark, Doug Davis, Dan Kolb, Dave Burba, and Brooks Kieschnick. Most of those guys had very good seasons, yet the starting pitching was so bad they had to trade what they could for Matt Kinney (nobody) and Wes Obermueller (Leskanic). He was given nothing for OFs too outside of Jenkins, as he was forced to start Brady Clark and sign Ben Grieve amongst other things. I think people really underestimate how little Melvin started with in October 2002, both at the major league level and at the minor league level (plenty of recent first round busts in Jones, Krynzel, Gold, Peterson, Green, and absolutely no talent at all from the 1996, 1997, and 1998 drafts coming up in the system). 3) What he was able to do with free agent guys like Podsednik, Turnbow, Wise, Helling, etc., to Kapler and Branyan this year has been remarkable. I'd argue that he is the best scrap heap evaluator in the business. 4) Back to pitching - someone commented that pitchers haven't been produced as much as hitters during his tenure. That's because they have invested a lot more high picks in position players than pitchers. In DMs first draft, none of the top 5 picks were pitchers. The next year the opposite - top 4 picks all pitchers, and he hit on one (Gallardo). All drafts after that are too recent to expect any of them to be in the majors by now, but pitchers picked in his tenure include Stetter, Taubenheim, Gallardo, Periad, Hammond, Garrison, Braddock, Welch, Aguilar, Jeffress, and a host of other prospects (Anundsen, Seidel, Bryson, Tyson, Hand, etc.). But in his first five drafts (2003-2007) he's only picked eight pitchers total in the top five rounds (Rogers, Gallardo, Wahpepah, Baker, Inman, Roberts, Jeffress, and Anundsen) versus 15 position players. You could go even further and say that he has only picked three pitchers in the top two rounds in those five drafts, and two look like hits (Gallardo, Jeffress). You can't expect them to produce as many pitching prospects as position players when you don't invest in each equally in the top five rounds, much less the top two. 5) As for trades, you win some and you lose some. King for Helms/Foster - Helms' 2003 season as an every-day player compared to the value of King as a LOOGY makes this a good trade. Leskanic for Obermueller - not a good trade (but the desperation for starting pitching forced it). Kinney for minor leaguers who never made it - good trade. Sexson for the haul - all in all, a wash. Podsednik for Lee - highway robbery. Branyan from Cleveland as a "conditional" deal - more highway robbery. Cruz & Lehr for Ginter - probably good, as Ginter did nothing afterwards. Capellan for Kolb - considering Kolb pitched worse than Capellan after he left, probably good. Overbay/Taubenheim for Bush/Gross/Jackson - not good, but it was forced by inheriting Fielder. Wolfe for Koskie - great until Koskie got hurt. Lee/Cruz for Cordero/Mench/Nix - probably a wash, but forced by a need for a closer. CV for Estrella/Franklin - good trade. Shouse for Enrique Cruz - highway robbery. Kolb II for Obermueller - who cares. Davis/Eveland/Krynzel for Aquino/Vargas/Estrada - not good, but forced by the need for a catcher. Linebrink - until Thatcher/Inman/Garrison do anything at the major league level it is a good trade, but again forced by the need for bullpen help. Balfour for McClung - so far looking like a good trade. All in all, a lot more good trades than bad trades. All in all, Melvin has done a good job of building the team in incremental steps, and given the host of free agents he had to sign and trades to make just to make the 2003/2004 teams even remotely competitive was amazing.

Minor league teams often run low on bodies. That's the way it is, as there isn't a magical reserve team somewhere to draw from. But don't the rookie league teams have greater roster limits than the others? Aren't they allowed something like 30 players on the rookie league teams? Please correct me if I'm wrong here. If they have guys hurt, there is a magical reserve to draw from - undrafted college seniors and independent league ranks. Now the latter is usually only useful for pitchers, as most of the hitters are either washed up major leaguers or never could hit worth a lick to begin with or don't meet the age limits. But for the former, just ask the guys you drafted if they know of any college seniors who didn't get drafted and sign them for two weeks and put the injured guys on the 7-day DL. In general college baseball is equal to A-ball, so any undrafted college seniors can hold their own in Helena. Heck, look and see if anyone at UW-M didn't get drafted and sign them. Edit - it also didn't help that they drafted 30 pitchers and only 15 position players. A little more balance there in rounds 30+ would have been nice.

Thirteen of their top fifteen prospects are pitchers - this is a team that may actually need to deal some arms, Greinke is the one the would bring the best return right now. Good point. They are in serious need of bats, and they need a lot of them. I would start with Gillespie (upgrade over Gathright, move DeJesus back to CF), Errecart (upgrade/replace Gload), Iribarren (replace Grudz), Cain, and one of Salome or Lucroy. I do like the idea of a major swap involving Gordon and LaPorta - it would help with the left-handed bat situation and make it easier to move Fielder in the future if need be, but that would have to be done in the off-season. LaPorta, Green, Gillespie, Errecart, Iribarren, and Hammond for Grienke and Gordon?

And Richie Sexson (I know, not a pitcher, but still basically a six-for-one deal). You're right - teams are no longer giving up top prospects for rentals. A combination of Gillespie, Pena (Cleveland desperately needs a closer - he would carry a lot of value with them), Cain, Errecart, and Hammond could net a lot. Speaking of CC, this whole thing would be a moot point had the Brewers made a different decision 10 years ago: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/alltime/draft?year=1998 Man... I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.