Brewcrewin07

I know he's not a great option, and I would much rather have Rendon or Donaldson, but would anyone be interested in Maikel Franco??

I mean isn't that what the Brewers are essentially doing now with all the one year or one year plus an option year contract they dole out now?? That's running it year to year. We would have Yelich if I was running the team. The time to go for it is now while you still have him. I would take my chances that a Strasburg/Woody 1-2 top of rotation for the next 3-4 years will give me a much better chance of getting to and winning the WS, then piece mealing a rotation together year after year. I mean how do you think the Nats won the WS this year?? Mostly because of their dominant pitching.

If he's anything like 36 year old Verlander...why not? Bingo! For some reason everyone here(or most everyone), seems to think/assume, that just because a pitcher(or any player) is in his mid to upper 30's it automatically means he will be terrible. They have no way of knowing that. I mean, are those the same people that think your above example, Justin Verlander at 36, isn't worth what he's making?? I would take 36 year old Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Justin Verlander over most other pitchers in baseball. To automatically assume Stephen Strasburg wouldn't be worth $30/mill a year at 36, is just their way of trying to prove he wouldn't be worth it.

So you don't think Strasburg couldn't be had for about 4/120?? 5 for 150?? The Brewers could absolutely do that. A lot of these players are more concerned about AAV than anything else anyway. But whatever, if you are comfortable with them throwing stuff against a wall every year and seeing if it sticks as far as their pitching goes, without an incredible amount of luck, you will never see them win a world series the rest of your lifetime(regardless of how old you are now). You were the one who used Lorenzo Cain as the example of the Brewers spending big. I simply asked you what TOR pitcher would be available for a contract around 5/80. So then you changed the narrative entirely and threw out suggestions of nearly double that AAV for Strasburg. Spending 30M a year is not the same as spending 16M a year. Braun will make 16 million per year this year...there's half of the $30 right there starting next year..then they have what?? About 40-45 million right now to match last year's payroll?? Take another $16 million off of that(which is what you are paying Cain per year, and Braun this year) and that still leaves you with about $24-$25 million to fill out the rest of your roster for this year and next. See how easy that is?? And that's not even considering if Mark A was willing to raise payroll by a bit more.

So you don't think Strasburg couldn't be had for about 4/120?? 5 for 150?? The Brewers could absolutely do that. A lot of these players are more concerned about AAV than anything else anyway. But whatever, if you are comfortable with them throwing stuff against a wall every year and seeing if it sticks as far as their pitching goes, without an incredible amount of luck, you will never see them win a world series the rest of your lifetime(regardless of how old you are now).

This is it exactly...so if we know that, the Brewers have to know that, yet this is the pool they continue to want to swim in, especially with pitching. At some point, it's like anything else in life, you get what you pay for. Except baseball is literally unlike anything else in life. It's not like there is some guarantee that comes along with a big money contract. DS is doing exactly what a small market team should be doing. There are no guarantees in life, or with anything..however, if you play the odds which is what a lot of you say the Brewers have to do in a lot of instances, then wouldn't you agree that the odds would be much more in favor of a Stephen Strasburg giving you 4 much better years for example then say a Jordan Lyles would?? I think any of us would agree that the odds would be greatly in favor of that.

Sheesh. Not every single value based signing will work out just the way we hope it will. But we criticize those moves and ignore the terrible ones that he didn't make that people wanted. This is it exactly...so if we know that, the Brewers have to know that, yet this is the pool they continue to want to swim in, especially with pitching. At some point, it's like anything else in life, you get what you pay for. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with you that as a general rule, more expensive free agents will produce better results than lower priced free agents. We just flat out don't have the money to compete with the Yankees and the Dodgers or even the Cubs for the Gerritt Coles of the world. I don't know what else to tell you. We just flat out have to be creative and find other ways. This simply isn't true...they COULD make a big FA pitching signing once in awhile. They have done it with bats(see, Cain, Lorenzo). Regularly?? No, of course not, but what better year would there be to do it, when they have a bunch of $$ freed up(right now), Braun comes off the books next year and you still have Yelich?? If not now, when?? Affordability is all about how you structure a contract.

This is it exactly...so if we know that, the Brewers have to know that, yet this is the pool they continue to want to swim in, especially with pitching. At some point, it's like anything else in life, you get what you pay for.

Did not see you a single time in the Narvaez trade thread but I figured you would show up on this one within 30 minutes of the original post. You do not fail to disappoint. Anyway, part of the goal of Stearns and the reason he was hired is to build a sustainable winning model in Milwaukee. As such, knowing how bad these big names usually work out in the end, they're not a team that will likely ever invest in a top dollar FA arm. If you're expecting that, you're probably rooting for the wrong team. Your obsession with big names is just not something that would ever work for this franchise for more than a year or two. The answer for them long-term is to develop their own, and though they've struggled to do that, they may have found one in Brandon Woodruff. You can't just say "they won't home grow them" just because they haven't in the best. They can, and they need to. Don't forget about Corbin Burnes. 2019 was a lost year for him, but he still has the arm talent to bounce back in a big way. Lauer will definitely be in the rotation. The fact that they let Anderson go tells me they do have a plan. And there still are guys that could potentially impact the rotation in 2020 that could be reasonable targets -- perhaps Kuechel, Rich Hill, maybe even Ryu depending on how his market ends up. I thought the Narvaez trade was great for the record...that being said, I would still rather have Grandal. Narvaez seems to have loads of potential, and seems to be on the right trajectory, but hasn't proven it as long as Grandal has, so there HAS to be a little bit of "what if" with him. I hope it works great. But again, Stearns seems to be far more aggressive in acquiring bats(Grandal, Moose etc), then he ever is Pitching. It's his philosophy I guess, but that doesn't mean we all need to agree with it. To me, a "lock down" starting staff will cover more hitting warts, then vice versa. It would also prevent the Brewers from having to run bullpen arms into the ground every year. I thought with the rules changing this year in regards to the 3 batter minimum, as well as much shorter post season rosters, that this might be the year the Brewers invest big in a starting pitcher.The way they have survived in the past(utilizing the bullpen ad nauseum), isn't really an option any more, so the seemingly best strategy to counter that would be to spend big on a guy that can go deep into games consistently(like Woody). If you had two of those guys(like add Strasburg), how much different would the staff look, how much more effective would the bull pen be all year consistently(because of not being used as much) and how much more of a chance would they give themselves late in the year when it's time to make a playoff push??

The end rarely justifies the means when it comes to those huge contracts. I'm not adverse to risk, but signing a huge name pitcher to a $100+ million deal have very low odds of working out value-wise. That's what's simple. Because of age?? Well, how many guys have we seen through the years pitch just fine later into their late 30's and early 40's?? Going back a ways..Nolan Ryan, would you have taken him in his later years?? How about Randy Johnson?? Or Justin Verlander, or Adam Wainright?? i could go on, but that's just some examples of guys that were just as effective in their later years. Age is only part of it. The other part is if you want them to go out and sign Strasburg or Cole, they will be paying 25% plus of their ENTIRE payroll to that player since it’ll be at the least $27 or 28 million per year for Strasburg. Cole will be another $5-$8 million. How will they field a competitive team around that? I’ve been advocating for them getting Strasburg or Rendon this offseason knowing that a ton of their payroll will get eaten up. There is absolutely no way they go out and get a bunch of guys on $25 million contracts or higher. 1) Because they can’t afford it. And 2) because they won’t field a competitive team around the big name guys. Do I think they can afford one? Absolutely. You bring in Strasburg for the rotation around $28 million per year (if that’s even enough), bring in a solid bat for first and third like Thames and Asdrubal Cabrera (all of this would already eat up about $40 million), and put the rest toward a bullpen arm or two and then a starter on a one year deal looking for a job somewhere shortly before Spring Training just to have an income that year. But again, that could be one of those “lightning in a bottle” guys that you would have no interest in. I do agree that it’s something they should explore doing. But if they do that, you can absolutely count them out on big name sweepstakes for many years as they won’t be able to afford multiple players with salaries that high. You want “3 stud arms in one rotation”? Then they need to sign Strasburg and trade Hader to bring in someone like Mackenzie Gore or one of the young guys from the White Sox and then hope that he pans out. Because there’s no way we can afford to bring in another high priced arm and actually put a solid team around them. I would be completely fine with signing one...like Strasburg or Rendon etc. There is simply ZERO reason(as you laid out beautifully), why they couldn't do that. They could almost any year, but they never do...I think that's what is frustrating for me. They have done it with bats, but not pitching, and as I have said before, they either better get VERY VERY lucky, that they will home grow a Pitcher, or they have to buy them, if they ever want to have a rotation that is more than just "bit pieces". Even having two studs at the top of the rotation would help immensely. You have Woody...now add Strasburg?? Damn! Right there you have two studs, that will repeatedly go deep into games(which saves your bullpen) and that would seem to be a benefit for the entire club, right?? I know they have access to a lot more data then any of us ever will have, but on the surface, that seems like a VERY beneficial move that the team should make. I just wish they would be more open to buying big time arms.

The end rarely justifies the means when it comes to those huge contracts. I'm not adverse to risk, but signing a huge name pitcher to a $100+ million deal have very low odds of working out value-wise. That's what's simple. Because of age?? Well, how many guys have we seen through the years pitch just fine later into their late 30's and early 40's?? Going back a ways..Nolan Ryan, would you have taken him in his later years?? How about Randy Johnson?? Or Justin Verlander, or Adam Wainright?? i could go on, but that's just some examples of guys that were just as effective in their later years.

You must like throwing darts, huh?? That's what these are. Guys that could, MAYBE give the Brewers one decent(ish) year. Is that really going to improve the rotation much?? Other than maybe mad bum and Ryu, there are no pitchers out there that would clearly take the Brewers to the next level. *sigh* they are just always going to have "just guys and hope" for a pitching staff aren't they?? Can't they ever have 3 stud arms in one rotation?? That's my dream. Two castoffs, Jordan Lyles and Drew Pomeranz, pitched like Cy Young contenders in August and September last year, and got this team to the playoffs. Wade Miley did it the year before. Perhaps these guys know what they are doing a little more than the "sign the namez!!!" guy. They sure did, but that's essentially what I'm talking about...the Brewers sign "castoffs" and HOPE it works out for that year or two. In this instance it did. Some years it might, like with Lyles and Chacin and Miley. And where are they now?? Pitching elsewhere. Why?? Because the same guys that "know what they are doing", obviously knew they caught lightning in a bottle for that year. Good for them that they hit on it. But, let me ask you, is it a sustainable strategy?? Always hoping/thinking you can get a bounce back season from a guy?? We saw what happened after Chacin's one good year, we have seen what Lyles usually has been during his career, Miley didn't even crack the Astros postseason rotation. You always rip on me wanting "name" guys...well, let me tell you something..who would be more likely to be a stud TOR guy for many years to come?? Strasburg or Miley?? Cole or Lyles?? I mean I could go on and on..if you need that explained to you, I'm not sure what to say. There's a reason those guys are "name" guys...it's really that simple.

I mean, essentially with what's left in FA you'll be throwing darts and hoping for a "Chacin" year from one of them. So really what's the point then?? Might as well just roll with the garbage(except Woody) that you have. Why spend $$ on essentially the same Pitchers?? It's so depressing that the Crew will seemingly never have 2-3 stud arms in their rotation at one time. I get that it's expensive, but if we are all honest, the ONLY way the brewers as a franchise will ever have a "feared" rotation is to buy arms...they won't home grow them as we have seen. And they seem to refuse to buy them. Sure, you can put together a rotation of "potential" type arms that may have a good year(or two) if everything goes right , and if it works out you look great for that year or two, but when they start to be the Pitchers they actually are again and it blows up...then you don't look so good. The lack of TOR arms is the #1 reason that the Brewers haven't gotten to where we all want them to be. Please note, I am in no way shape or form saying they should have re signed Lyles because he's in the same category as all the others in hoping you can squeeze a good year ir two out of them before they become who they usually are again. I mean you would have thought that now with the rules changing and The Brewers no longer having the luxury of burning through Pen arms late in the season to carry them to the finish line, that they maybe would have realized that if there was ever a time to spend big on a TOR arm that can go deep into a game, now would be it. I guess not. They will always just have "band aids on gaping wounds" type of Pitchers I guess.

Sure, he probably will, but how good will they be, really?? I mean, at this point, with the exception of maybe mad bum and ryu, to me everyone else is a dart throw and you HOPE you can get a decent season or two out of them. No different then Chacin. Doesn't really take the Brewers to the next level, unfortunately. They will never have 3 stud arms, or even two will they??

You must like throwing darts, huh?? That's what these are. Guys that could, MAYBE give the Brewers one decent(ish) year. Is that really going to improve the rotation much?? Other than maybe mad bum and Ryu, there are no pitchers out there that would clearly take the Brewers to the next level. *sigh* they are just always going to have "just guys and hope" for a pitching staff aren't they?? Can't they ever have 3 stud arms in one rotation?? That's my dream.

It was mentioned above...the payroll is a choice. Mark A could spend more on payroll, probably rather comfortably, he just chooses not to. I mean, think about the $$ he has or will shortly have coming in from American Family for naming rights. The merchandise sales from the rebrand etc. Even if he lost a bit of $$ for a year having payroll at say $175 million, he'd eventually make that up again. Anyone in business knows and accepts that sometimes you lose $$, but if you're smart, you get it back and then some. To me, payroll should never be below $140-$150 million and I'm guessing even with that, he'd still make a decent profit.

I wanted Moose AND Grandal back, or equal production from two guys they bring in at those respective positions. Not sure why that is so much to ask. I mean, in all honesty, shouldn't that be what the brewers want as well?? Okay, so even if I gave you Kendrick..how can you pander for him yet, you are one of the people that was lamenting the White Sox signing of Grandal and the Reds signing of Moose saying they would regret them because of their ages and were glad the Brewers didn't do those deals because they would regret them. You can't have it both ways, when it fits your narrative.

Excuse me?? I like the Pomeranz move..But anyway, whatever you do you and keep on keeping on...you just said that you like how fast FA is moving this year..as someone above pointed out to you...and I will again, because you maybe don't get it...every FA that signs now without the Brewers signing one, means that player won't be playing with the Brewers next year. Got it?? 10 players is a lot to fill...the longer you wait, the less available players you have to choose from. Simple concept. That's okay if you only need to fill a spot or two, but they NEED a 3B, a 1B, a competent offensive starting catcher, at least TWO starting pitchers, bullpen arms and some bench depth. But...you and many others are comfortable with the Brewers "dumpster diving" because that appears as what they will be doing. I mean I see people gettng excited about the possibility of signing a 37 year old Howie Kendrick to play 1B...really?? Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?? If he does...great signing, but it's more likely he doesn't. I mean, all of you didn't want to sign Moose or Grandal to 4 year deals because they would be to old right?? Yet, would be fine with signing 37 year old Howie Kendrick. Yeah, I like that it is moving, because last year's hot stove was incredibly slow and boring. I'm a Brewer fan, but I'm also a baseball fan, and I like seeing these guys move around. The dynamic is really cool to watch. And yes, the Brewers are going to have to jump in the pool here and start filling holes soon. The difference is that I have faith that they will do just that. And no, they won't be "dumpster diving". They haven't done that in a decade, and there is nothing that indicates that they will start operating that way again. And no, I'm not a fan of a Kendrick signing. He has been very good, but is at an age where the bottom could very well fall out of his game at any time. He's a stopgap solution at best, and I think the Brewers front office is better than the old guard who regularly employed stopgaps. Okay, I'm willing to listen if someone can explain to me how exactly they will replace two all star bats and be the same or better. Seriously, I will listen...but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever. I mean, outside of Donaldson, who is left at third base that can at minimum match Moose's production, who is left at Catcher than can match at minimum Grandal's production?? I mean there are a lot of "I hope/think he can's" out there, they could sign, but nothing that would bring you the guaranteed production those two did. Without that, the lineup is almost sure to be not as good. Sure, maybe Cain improves from last year, a full season of Hiura etc, that helps some, but...they could have all of that AND have Grandal/Moose production as well. That's my point. Why wouldn't you want that or try to get it while you still have Yelich. This is what I mean, the Brewers and a lot of their fans are willing to take risks on guys "rebounding" or reaching their potential etc. If it works, you look brilliant, if it doesn't(which it will more often than not), you look like a fool. I'd rather not live like that. I'd rather see proven talent. That seems to me to be a better way to go. More of a sure thing(but not guaranteed of course). The Brewers were able to take advantage of market inefficiency to grab Grandal and Moose on short-term deals last year. The truth is, they are a team that is going to have to take chances and hope for rebounds and for things to go right. They are never going to be a team that can go out and fill holes with top-of-the-line free agents on huge long-term contracts. Yeah, they can do those deals once in a while (Cain) but it isn't going to be the norm. So no, I don't think they will be able to replace Moose and Grandal's production tit-for-tat. But they can improve other areas, and put guys at catcher and 3B that will hopefully be able to replicate at least a good portion of that production. They are always going to have to think outside the box and be one step ahead of other teams, because they just aren't going to have the money available to buy their way out of trouble. I know they can't do it every single year, but dammit you have three more years of Yelich, why not go "all in" as long as he's here and see where it takes you?? He deserves it. If it hurts a couple years financially, then it does..sometimes that's just what you have to do. They have a crap ton of $$ available this year...why not make a serious hard run at Rendon, or Strasburg or Cole?? I mean,just the "bounce" you'd get from that in attendance, jersey sales etc would make it worth it. Braun's deal comes off the books nexxt year as well, there is plenty of $$ to do a deal with one, if not two of those guys. It's all about structure. I do really think however that DS got caught a little off guard in that I'm willing to make a strong guess that he thought AT least they would be able to bring Moose back.

Yeah, I like that it is moving, because last year's hot stove was incredibly slow and boring. I'm a Brewer fan, but I'm also a baseball fan, and I like seeing these guys move around. The dynamic is really cool to watch. And yes, the Brewers are going to have to jump in the pool here and start filling holes soon. The difference is that I have faith that they will do just that. And no, they won't be "dumpster diving". They haven't done that in a decade, and there is nothing that indicates that they will start operating that way again. And no, I'm not a fan of a Kendrick signing. He has been very good, but is at an age where the bottom could very well fall out of his game at any time. He's a stopgap solution at best, and I think the Brewers front office is better than the old guard who regularly employed stopgaps. Okay, I'm willing to listen if someone can explain to me how exactly they will replace two all star bats and be the same or better. Seriously, I will listen...but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever. I mean, outside of Donaldson, who is left at third base that can at minimum match Moose's production, who is left at Catcher than can match at minimum Grandal's production?? I mean there are a lot of "I hope/think he can's" out there, they could sign, but nothing that would bring you the guaranteed production those two did. Without that, the lineup is almost sure to be not as good. Sure, maybe Cain improves from last year, a full season of Hiura etc, that helps some, but...they could have all of that AND have Grandal/Moose production as well. That's my point. Why wouldn't you want that or try to get it while you still have Yelich. This is what I mean, the Brewers and a lot of their fans are willing to take risks on guys "rebounding" or reaching their potential etc. If it works, you look brilliant, if it doesn't(which it will more often than not), you look like a fool. I'd rather not live like that. I'd rather see proven talent. That seems to me to be a better way to go. More of a sure thing(but not guaranteed of course).

You mean 10 players from a 2019 team that you literally gave up on in August as they hovered around .500? Remember that? You completely gave up on the team and announced to everyone that you were done and that it was time for Packer season. You denounced the acquisitions of Lyles and Pomeranz big time, while in reality those two turned out to be the "needle movers" you were so upset with the team for not acquiring. You refuse to acknowledge anyone who tells you to be patient and have a little faith in the guys that are running this club. Like I said before ... not a good look. At all. Excuse me?? I like the Pomeranz move..But anyway, whatever you do you and keep on keeping on...you just said that you like how fast FA is moving this year..as someone above pointed out to you...and I will again, because you maybe don't get it...every FA that signs now without the Brewers signing one, means that player won't be playing with the Brewers next year. Got it?? 10 players is a lot to fill...the longer you wait, the less available players you have to choose from. Simple concept. That's okay if you only need to fill a spot or two, but they NEED a 3B, a 1B, a competent offensive starting catcher, at least TWO starting pitchers, bullpen arms and some bench depth. But...you and many others are comfortable with the Brewers "dumpster diving" because that appears as what they will be doing. I mean I see people gettng excited about the possibility of signing a 37 year old Howie Kendrick to play 1B...really?? Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?? If he does...great signing, but it's more likely he doesn't. I mean, all of you didn't want to sign Moose or Grandal to 4 year deals because they would be to old right?? Yet, would be fine with signing 37 year old Howie Kendrick.

Ok, be honest here... this response implies that you haven't actually looked up Smith or anything about him. He out OPS'd both Moustakas and Grandall last year, as a 24 year old. If you're not at least going to take the time to at least look into players before you dismiss them as unworthy acquisitions, that's not a good look. You're apparently enamored with names, and if they don't get names, you're angry and frustrated. As I said before, I think you're likely in for an offseason of anger and frustration if that's your mentality. The Brewers are doing what they feel they need to do to win, and they're likely 1000x more likely to get it right. It's NOT about names, it's about PROVEN, sustained talent. That's what i'm interested in them acquiring. Not guys with "potential"(although you can have a couple of those, sure), not guys who MIGHT rebound after an inexplicably bad year...PROVEN talent that's done it for more than a year or two. You can't have a team full of "mights" or "potential" guys and expect to be consistent year in and year out. It's funny because so many people didn't want Shaw back(I agree with the decision to let him go), because they were worried about him NOT rebounding and saying the Brewers need better than that and if you can't count on him, it's too risky. Yet, these are the same guys that everyone wants them to sign.."risky" guys. How does that make any sense?? As far as Dominic Smith goes...I'm insulted you say i don't know who he is..I know EXACTLY who he is..to this point in his career(3 years) he hasn't proven a thing, other than he MIGHT have some potential. He's never had more than 177 AB's in a season..(in which he struck out 44 times), never hit more than 11 HR's(this last year). VERY small sample size..but if everyone wants to get all excited and mess themselves over what he MIGHT become, more power to you. Again, give me the proven, sustained talent, at least until Yelich is gone.

Can they throw 4.0 ERAs? Can they get through the batting order 2 times in the playoffs? That's truly all you need. Team ERA was 4.4 last year. We need it around 3.8. Woodruff and the pen should drop it from the 4 ERA we NEED from the starting 2-5. Need it better than that with the little offense they will have it appears

Not a good Free agent class?? How much better do you want for headliners then Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg and Anthony Rendon?? Add in their very own FA's in Moose and Grandal...that's a pretty damn good top of FA class if you ask me, and sadly, not a single one of them will be wearing a Brewers uniform.

Definite "stud" arms right there! They would lead them to the World Series...one of the most feared rotations in all of baseball. Stearns must be waiting for the "blow out sale"...Everything must go! no reasonable offer refused!