NievesNoNO

Well, I have to say I'm fairly disappointed. What exactly are we close to? The bottom of the division? The bottom of the league in team pitching? Close to becoming the Baltimore Orioles of a few years back? Close to making a move for another average free agent pitcher in the off-season? If we are really close, which offensively we may be, then I'd like to see us REALLY go for it then. Trade our prospects and make a legit run at it. Gamel and Lawrie + ? to KC for Grienke. Overpay for either De la Rosa or Vasquez and give it a go. I think the statement that they think they are close is what's getting to me. I would've maybe been OK. with we just couldn't get fair value back. I probably fall under the category of someone who wants to see a move just to see something happen, however there must be some minor deals out there for guys like Coffey or Hoffman, Counsel maybe. Why sit on these guys when it's obvious we are going nowhere. I've been a pretty big Melvin supporter but this has me second guessing.

I have to agree. Wait guys, if we can just win these next two we'll be only 3 games under .500 and 8 games back!! So you're saying there's a chance!! I really wouldn't have an issue with them holding until next year, but I fail to see how they will improve next year with the same team. They're not going to be able to sign any impact arms and in my opinion this is the chance for them to stockpile some solid prospects. Teams are getting desperate now and close to tasting the playoffs, so I have to believe they're willing to deal in prospects but probably not current players on their roster (which it seems Melvin is seeking). I'm sorry, I just don't see how waiting until to off-season returns any greater value. Sure you might have more options, but for what? Maybe for a pitcher with similar service time that we'll have the same issues with. Why would a team trade for 1 year of Fielder in the off-season and give up prospects when they can just sign an available free-agent and wait until to off-season to bid.

I think the "casual fan" aspect is overstated here too much of the time. In my opinion, the casual fan could care less about the names on the back of the uniform. Generally, they will pay attention when things are going well and won't show up when things are not. Many so-called casual fans like to go to the games for the atmosphere. Obviously winning helps the atmosphere, so even with Prince or whoever, if the team isn't winning people will stop showing up. For example, I consider myself to be a casual fan of the Bucks/NBA. For the most part I'll check scores and can probably name you players on the Bucks roster but I don't keep up with other teams' rosters besides the big names that are pasted all over the media. I'll pay alot more attention when they play well regardless of who's on the team. Heck, star players moving on might actually help revenue since fans will have to go out and buy new jerseys to wear to the couple games they go to.

Why feel bad for a guy doing a guy doing terrible at his job? He's been here forever and our record is terrible. He was just asleep at the wheel while Dan Haren was given away. Terrible I'm not so sure about, but your obviously entitled to your opinion. I would hardly call ten years forever. I guess in the sports world it's a long time, but for as pitiful a franchise as the Brewers were it would've taken anyone that long to turn it around. I guess that makes 28 other teams that were asleep too. Heat is part of Melvin's job, if he turns them back to a contender it'll be short-lived. Anyway, I still feel Fielder gets dealt before the deadline and for all my Melvin support I'll think less of him if he doesn't at least move Hart or Fielder before this year's deadline. I still can't fathom how either will have more value in the off-season.

I have to agree. Even if Hart has turned a corner and will be a All-Star caliber player going forward the fact remains the Brewers still need pitching. Hart playing at an All-Star level this year hasn't made the team a contender, so even if we get what might be perceived as lesser value (pitching) than what Corey's numbers suggest he's worth we will most likely be better off.

Agreed. What more do people want in a young pitcher. The guy compares very favorably to Bumgarner who people have claimed to be a future ace. Is he Hellickson, no probably not but he deserves more credit than what he's getting.

Agreed. Hudson would be a great return. Williams is an aggressive GM., but it has paid off recently. Potentially good for them and for us.

Love that DM is trying to push past Hudson as a #3/4, which, from memory, has been mentioned about Hudson. Toss in Viciedo and Beckham and we might *deal* with Hudson. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif Still, it does raise the issue that Prince is our best hope to get a #1/2 ceiling pitching prospect. I don't know that Kenny has one of those... Does he? Excellent!!

I pretty much agree with you here. Although I doubt Melvin just looks at ERA, he wouldn't have his job right now if that was the extent of his scouting. To be fair, I believe he's tried to improve the staff with the monetary resources available. The problem is free agency is not a spot to build a staff/team for really any franchise, save for the Yankees. The Brewers will never be able to lure a true ace here in free agency. I want Fielder and Hart both gone by the deadline this year. Look, with Fielder and with Hart playing out of his mind we are still a losing team, so even if we could resign either of them what good have we done? Get what you can for them and move on. Like some others, I don't think we need to bring back a team's MLB ready arm. If that's what's holding up a deal, then why not ask for quantity instead or readiness. Take multiple players with high ceilings from the middle/lower levels of some team's system. Keep the system stocked and shoot for 2012. We can't settle for marginal talent or worse, nothing, for these guys. I think with a little open-mindedness a deal can be had sooner than later. With Fielder, I just fail to see how holding him until the off season creates more opportunity to move him. His contract situation will be the same as now except with less of his service. Fine, the Sox don't want to trade their one stud pitching prospect then ask for Flowers, Viciedo, Mitchell, etc. Just turn him into some talent. Maybe if we stock up on more high upside position players in the system we can move them for some needed pitching in the off-season. You can deal prospects with anyone, but large contract impending free agents have a limited number of teams to work with. Just my two cents, but why limit your options by only accepting pitching in return.

Ken Rosenthal now says the White Sox arefocused on Dunn and not in on Fielder. I'm kind of disappointed. I guess that doesn't mean things couldn't change.

Hudson, Viciedo, and Santos Rodriguez and I'd pull the trigger. Time to move forward, get it done Doug. Not that I like the Sox, but I could at least continue to root for Prince then.

I agree it would be a nice haul and I agree I can't see them parting with both, but crazier things have happened. I'm not sure what wouldn't be to like about that deal. We'd get the Sox top prospect each of the last 2 seasons. I don't really care about the surplus of infielders, it would just give us more flexibility in the off-season for another move.

I think as we get closer to the deadline teams will become more desperate, assuming the Brewers will consider trading him this year. We may not get a large haul for him but there will be some quality options available. I still believe we'll get more for him this year rather than waiting until the off-season.

I agree that Upton isn't exciting, but Garza could be outstanding in the NL, and we'd control him for the next 3 1/2 seasons. I would love Garza for Fielder. I'd take Hellickson, Garza or Davis as the centerpiece for a Fielder deal. I'm not sure what some of you are expecting to get in return. Garza's results might be slightly above average however, if they were much better than that we wouldn't be talking about him right now. I'll take my chances with a 26 year old that throws 95 with an ERA+ of 114 (not that that is THE defining stat) over the last 3 years who pitches in the toughest division in baseball. Yes, ideally you hold out for someone like Hellickson just for the service time aspect, but I'm pretty skeptical that any team returns that type of player.

I completely agree. Suddenly some feel that Hart is worth more than a solid starter with a plus fastball or a top pitching prospect? I'm all about getting as much as possible from any potential bidders, but I think Hart is being overvalued a bit. I'd hate to miss out on moving him for a need because we held out for an extra throw in semi-prospect. Maybe he's a changed player, but that still doesn't change the Brewers needs.

I have no idea why would you think Sanchez would be a steal for Hart. The guy will be turning 28 (!) at the end of this year. Has command issues. I think you seriously underestimate Hart which Brewers fans did at the beginning of this guy. Teams covet power which Hart certainly brings. If Melvin dealt Hart for Sanchez, I'd be furious. Count me in as someone who thinks Sanchez would be a nice return for Hart. The only issue I would have is his service time. I believe he has one arbitration year left. Sanchez would be the 2nd best pitcher on the Brewers by a long shot. I know that's not saying much but the guy has improved each of the last 3 years and can strike out a guy per inning at the Major League level.

I would stop being a fan. Unless Melvin would accidentally click the accept button that one's not happening.

Cecil would be an excellent target. Young, controllable, and good with some track record in MLB, albeit not a large sample. I would ask for Morrow as I believe he has turned the corner in his development and has the bigger arm. I'd do either straight up. I have somewhat of a hard time believing the Jays would give up either for Lawrie though, but you never know and if they actually have expressed interest in acquiring him I think you'd be follish not to explore the possibility. There's a difference though in saying you like a player being interested in acquiring a player.

MLBtraderumors has the Padres interested in adding some offense. Their OF production is awful. Could we get Castro or Poreda from them for Hart?

Yes, I like the idea. McGehee and Hart would seem to have solid trade value right now. As soon as the Brewers admit they're not contending this year the better off they'll be. Injuries to contending teams are huge opportuniteis for the Brewers. I like McGehee but he's replaceable and we need to give Gamel a legit opportunity. Almost an ideal fit for both sides.

I fail to see how Niemann is any better than Davis. I actually think Davis has the better stuff, but not the results as Niemann yet. I certainly wouldn't put Niemann in the category of Price. While Fielder is our best trade asset, he's only an asset while under contract. Everyday his value slips. While I don't want to give him away, if you can get a pitcher who has some form of a MLB track record with some success and still has some upside then I think you ought to consider going that route instead of letting him walk for two picks that may or may not ever reach the major leagues. But yes, I would take Niemann or Davis. I just think if you take Davis because he's under performing maybe you stand a better chance of getting another player thrown in the mix.

I think Davis would be a good target. Yes, he's struggling which while it doesn't seem like a good thing, is a potential reason for the Brewers to have a shot at acquiring him. If he was pitching like he started the season I'm sure they probably wouldn't consider moving him. It also could give the Brewers leverage in asking for a second quality prospect.

Anybody think the Mets might be a consideration for Fielder? I know they were brought up as a possibility before and then Ike Davis came up and started raking. Davis has cooled a bit and while he's been good he's not at Fielder's level yet. The Mets are right there and always have that pressure to win now so maybe: Fielder and Coffey for Ike Davis and Jenrry Mejia

Yes it has or at the very most to have a minimal effect. Statistics can pretty much be manipulated to show anything the author would like to show. Protection from the standpoint of how the pitcher chooses to work a hitter is real, however I'm guessing that the end results because of how the pitcher works a certain hitter might not fluctuate very much. At least not enough to show a statistically significant change. That said there is certainly a difference in hitting in front of the pitcher or hitting 3-5.

I don't necessarily believe we're 3-4 years away either. I guess I would call it a modified rebuild. I would say however, that the freed up money won't help our pitching. I'd rather we didn't even attempt to fix the pitching problem with money. We have our 1 FA starter, now I think we need to find internal solutions. The process would really go much faster if Parra could just remember how to pitch. (His last start was encouraging). The loss of Fielder would definatley hurt, but I agree that the offense would be passable even with out him. I do think he gets taken for granted though. We don't have to really worry about filling a big hole position player wise. Braun, Gomez, Escobar, McGhee, Weeks, and LuCroy is a nice base. Hopefully Gamel moves into the mix as well. Hopefully if Fielder or Hart are moved it's for high upside arms. Really, I think a lot hinges on Parra and the potential trade of Fielder. On paper I feel like we're only an elite pitcher or two away, but I suppose a lot of teams could say that.