BuckyBrewer61

Sorry to bump, but couldn’t figure out a straight answer digging through all the replies. If I want a streaming service to watch the games, through Roku or my smart TV (not looking to hard-wire all my TVs to cable boxes), in the Milwaukee blackout area, it seems like the options are: ATT Live TV Spectrum (apparently they have a streaming service, though may not be on Roku?) Correct? Am I missing something? Very frustrating and disappointing that the streaming services couldn’t make this work.

Agreed, but I think the Padres (and any other team) are dreaming if they think they are getting Hader for anything other than an elite package. That’s the beauty of the Brewers position. We aren’t in rebuild mode, we still expect to compete, so Hader is an elite asset to the Brewers. So there’s no negotiating necessary, because no deal is necessary. There’s only “blow us away, or we’ll happily keep him.”

It’s rare to repeat/have dynasties in baseball because the playoffs are far more volatile than other sports. If you put together a list of payroll size over the past 10 years and placed it next to a list of playoff appearances...I suspect the two lists would look awfully similar. As a large market team, you’ve got a chance year after year. As a small market team, you’ve got to hope you win the playoff crapshoot during your 1-2 year window.

Seeing a lot of posts here and on social media about a salary cap. That’s never happening, the players’ union won’t allow it. What baseball really needs is revenue sharing. Larger markets get more money on their TV deals because they are located in populous cities. That’s it. It’s not like they earned it on their own. But they have to play someone. No one is tuning in to watch 162 Dodgers intrasquad scrimmages. The whole league is a single product, so spread the TV/streaming revenue more equitably. If you want to dictate teams’ payrolls, combine that with a salary floor - which would get the players’ union on board.

My perception of the “when and where” thing was basically the players saying - look, we aren’t getting anywhere and we aren’t going to waive our right to file a grievance. So let’s quit the public negotiating, at this rate we’re not anywhere close to signing anything new. We’re ready to play under whatever is legally in place at the moment and we’ll let the lawyers figure the rest out later. They weren’t just saying “make us a proposal telling us when and where, and for however much you want, with whatever safety measures you want, and with however many concessions present and future you want us to swallow, and we’ll just sign it.” Quite the opposite. The perception that the continued negotiating is contrary to that mantra is off-base IMO. But yes, both sides still look terrible here.

There’s no way the season will be shortened for one simple reason, and we all know what that is. Tweaked? Maybe, though I hope not. But any format that means less games isn’t happening, with the possible exception of doing so in a way that adds more playoff games/teams.

If they play a 10-game season, then the two teams with the best record play a 1-game World Series, you will be just as elated with that title as you would have been if the Brewers won the World Series last year? Point being that at some point it just doesn’t feel like the same thing. Where that cutoff is obviously is a personal opinion. But for me personally, 50-games, a modified playoff with potentially 16 teams, and empty stadiums is past that cutoff point. Like I said, I still want baseball. But to me, no, this season will not feel like a normal World Series championship. I wish it did, but that’s just the way I feel, and I’m not alone. And as someone who - like many of you - has an illogically deep emotional investment in the Brewers, yes I would feel robbed of that moment I’ve been dreaming of.

I’d almost be more interested in a 50-game season if they just called it something else. I just really don’t want the first World Series title of my life, one I’ve dreaming of for a lifetime, to be a 1/3rd season and won in an empty stadium. It won’t feel right, I’ll feel robbed of the moment. Just call it the 2020 MLB tournament...or something. I don’t care what. Acknowledge that this isn’t a true World Series season, play as many or few games as you want, have as many playoff teams as you want. We still want to play an MLB competition for some fun and enjoyment, but this won’t feel in any way like a true World Series championship, so just call it something else and let’s have some fun.

This is outrageous. I’ll be happy to sell you anything you want. Name the item and price, it’s yours. Because hey...if I don’t supply it to you, or if I just keep your money for a year then offer it back to you, well that’s your responsibility. Nobody made you give me your money. Be accountable.

I imagine at some point they will be forced to stop calling these games “delayed” and offer the option of a credit or refund. But in the meantime, they are taking an involuntary, interest free loan from their fans. Anyone that is cool with that can Venmo me $1000 and I’ll give it back to you next year. Thanks!

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/04/21/fans-sue-all-30-teams-manfred-ticket-sellers-over-their-refusal-to-issue-ticket-refunds/?utm_tags=nbcsemail1001&mi_u=107CB11E-FA5E-425A-83DE-22892A0FB01D I’m sure there are plenty of season ticket holders on here, and many more holding tickets for 2020 games that are now worthless. There will be no fans attending games this year, we all know that. Yet the is MLB is holding their fans’ money hostage. And at a time when many fans are struggling financially, by calling these games “delayed” and thus having no obligation to offer refunds, at least not yet. Bad look for a league that is already notoriously bad at marketing itself

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/04/10/sports-arent-coming-back-soon Good article about the reality of trying to play pro sports at this time. The timing of when sports restart is not up to Rob Manfred, Roger Goodell, Adam Silver, the owners, anyone. It will be determined by the virus and the progress made toward treatment and/or a vaccine, and that alone.

I truly hope some season happens, and I hope that I am 100% as invested in it all as much as any other season, including the possibility of winning a World Series. I just have a hard time believing that I will. For better or worse, this season/World Series would just be...different. I guess I would rather win this than none at all, but no matter how much I’d try to justify it, it just wouldn’t be the same as a “regular” championship. I’m not trying to ruin it for anyone else, you don’t have to care what I think and shouldn’t, it’s just my own perception. And I’ll enjoy it as best I can, but for me it will be very difficult to just choose to ignore the fact that I’m attending no games, I’m watching games in empty spring training stadiums, etc. Yes baseball is baseball and 154 or 162 games is arbitrary, this title will be earned like any other, but this season would still be different than every other, and like it or not the championship will be too. On top of that, it’s always been a dream of mine to be at a Brewers World Series game. The idea of that happening in Arizona in an empty stadium, again, just wouldn’t be right. In the end, there’s a lot of mental gymnastics to go through - at least for me - to rationalize this being the same as any other season/title. And for me, that means that in reality, it’s just not. But I’m happy for those that feel differently, I hope I will too if the time comes.

Yeah, that’s an interesting point here as well. If a season somehow does get played, I legitimately hope the Brewers do not win the World Series. I know some will find that ridiculous and I certainly understand that, but I wouldn’t want the first and possibly only World Series we win in my lifetime to have an asterisk by it. It wouldn’t feel right, and I would feel robbed of the emotion of a “true” championship. If we had already won one, I would feel differently.

Neither the KBO nor German soccer have started yet, but yes both are ramping up to attempt to do so. I definitely hope it works out, and if so you are absolutely correct that MLB will follow suit. The big question will be if (when?) someone in one of these leagues tests positive during the season, what then? Hopefully there will be a reasonable answer in the near future.

Yep, this is the million dollar question. Hopefully there will be a better answer in a month or so, and hopefully that answer does open the door to baseball and more. I’m not overly optimistic, but I very much hope I’m wrong!

In theory, theory and reality are the same. In reality, they are not. It's fun to think about ways to play and watch baseball in 2020, and the theoretical solutions make some sense. But in reality, as long as major precautions remain in place across the country and world, Major League Baseball will not be played in 2020. Yes some players make a ton of money and might be motivated to play. But the umpires, training staff, cleaning crews, grounds crews, clubhouse staff, scoreboard operators, security staff, bullpen catchers, media members, hotel staff, minor leaguers needing to be available but with no games to play, etc etc etc sure don't. Even at bare bones, this is a huge undertaking requiring a ton of people that don't get paid like an MLB baseball player. They will certainly try, there is a lot of money at stake, and I would love it if they were successful. But even IF they could figure out all the logistics, the league will inevitably go the way of the NBA. Somebody, somewhere will get sick and test positive. Maybe a player, maybe an announcer, maybe a janitor. And then what? Sequester that whole team for 2 weeks while the rest keep playing? What happens if god forbid even ONE person in connection with the league ends up in the hospital, on a ventilator or dies...aside from obviously being terrible for that person and their family, it would be a PR nightmare. As much we all love baseball and recognize it's significance and importance as more than just a game, it is not essential. One positive test and the season is over. I want it as bad as all of you, but until something major happens (vaccine, reliable effective treatment, virus prevalence markedly decreases) and the restrictions are lifted for everyone...baseball isn't happening. Let's hope one of those things happen ASAP, because then some of this might become possible.

This is a bit of a different situation.

Baseball isn’t happening this year. I would be willing to bet a large sum of money on that. I am frustrated that, as a season seat holder, the Brewers will not refund they money I’ve already paid for tickets. At bare minimum, for games that have already passed, for which I have now paid for literally nothing. This is a problem that needs to be fixed. Now. I know the Brewers and all of baseball are taking a huge financial hit right now, but that doesn’t justify keeping the fans’ money in exchange for nothing.

Ken Burns Baseball documentary now streaming for free in PBS app. Thanks coronavirus.

Not making arguments about specific age, just talking about production at the end of a long-term deal

Of course I was not just comparing Braun vs Heyward in 2019. This whole thread is largely discussing long-term contracts and the value/risk of them. I was simply defending Braun because people talk about him now like he’s a huge liability and wasn’t worth his contract. I understand some of the arguments about whether these deals are worth it, Braun’s final extension included. All I’m trying to say is Braun is still producing and at least making his final years’ salary more palatable. I probably should’ve picked a better more precise example of a player providing next to no value in the twilight years of a long-term deal like Pujols or Cabrera. I simply used Heyward as an example of a what a bad long-term deal actually looks like, largely because he’s a Cub, therefore I love how bad this contract has been for them so I like talking about it. But I’ll bite - completely ignoring their respective ages, any other value of extending your franchise player, and the fact the Brewers presumably had no idea the steroid issue was coming (extension was signed the year before he was caught)...comparing just the numbers on Braun’s final extension vs Heyward’s contract (both began in 2016): Braun: .280/.341/.503/.844 Averaging 22 HR, 70 RBI $79m earned, 1 year/$21m remaining (including buyout of 2021 club option) Heyward: .252/.327/.383/.711 Averaging 12 HR, 57 RBI $98m earned, 4 years/$86m remaining I can understand the argument about the value of Braun’s final extension, but any attempt to try to equate Heyward and Braun’s deals is plainly off base IMO.

2019 War Braun- 1.8 Heyward- 2.0 Braun since signing his big extension in 2011 at age 27 - 29.8 WAR (9 seasons) Heyward since singing his huge deal in 2015 at age 26 - 7.1 WAR (4 seasons) Braun put up 17.5 WAR in the four years after signing his deal, which includes his injury and suspension-ravaged 2013 and 2014 seasons. Comparing these two based on the WAR Braun put up in 2019 as a 35-year-old versus what Heyward did as a 29-year-old just isn't a good, or fair, comparison. Heyward also still has 4 more years left on his deal at $21.5m per.

I have never ripped Braun's production or the fact that he's "overpaid" or anything like that. I realize you cannot magically take that money and put it elsewhere sometimes, but still...do you think the Brewers wish they could've put $20 million to pitching or shortstop the past 2 years? I think they'd have taken that opportunity. This assumes there is a way you can just have a guy like Braun or Yelich for his peak years, then ditch them when they decline. This is how superstar contracts work. If you want a guy like Yelich or Braun, this is the cost. Would you rather have not had Braun at his peak because of the current value of his contract? I for one would rather pay that cost to have Yelich, now and in 9 years, than give him away and hope the money has value elsewhere

I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.