HiAndTight

I do understand that Aoki hit 2 HRs the other day, but our OF OPS is going to be terrible playing 2 CFs every day and Hart at first base, especially with Braun being continually nicked up and missing games here and there. I realize that Nyjer and Carlos currently have different lines but Morgan has a career .710 OPS, Gomez has a career .650 OPS, and if Aoki can sustain his .846 OPS that would be great but looking at his swing I'd peg him around the low .800s which is awesome in CF and pretty average in either corner. If we're talking short term I don't have a problem with Aoki in RF but if I'm building a team I'd like to move him back to CF and hopefully slide Gamel back into 1B. Not sure how exactly you come to the concusion that we're going to have a "terrible," OF OPS. I think we can safely say Aoki is a legit big leaguer at this point. And I'm not looking at his swing, I'm looking at his numbers. He has a OPS near .850 and it's driven heavily by OBP and hits atop the lineup. A huge plus. Braun either is leading the league in SLG, or close to it(he's been in a slight little funk as of late), but is putting up nearly identical numbers to his MVP season and has missed 4 games, behind only Corey Hart in games played. And I'm not sure what you expect of your CF'er. They play exceptional defense generally, and you don't generally look for an 800-900 OPS from your CF'er. But you're the one who RAILS aganist "short term solutions." I mean, every other post is how Melvin has screwed up this team so badly with his "rentals," despite the fact you can't point to which rentals have screwed this team up, wants to build up the farm system and "only" trade for players you control for 3 years or more. Yet you're advocating giving up prospects, and I suspect they'd have to be pretty substantial prospects for a guy who actually DOES miss games(averages 120 games the last 4 years missing 32, 63, 31 and 44 in the previous 4 seasons) yet still managed to average 27 HR and 80 RBI with an .847 OPS, or almost exactly what Aoki is now giving you. Seems like the type of move that we'd make that you'd rail agains forever. Either way, I peg Aoki as an .830-ish OPS type guy. After an early adjustment, he's shown incredible bat control, great speed to take 2nd, good doubles power, and equally important, a guy who gives you exceptional at bats and gets on base at a very good clip. For what it'd cost, the time we'd control him, the position he plays, his health history...this literally goes against every-single thing I'v e seen from you.

Yeah, he'd be great to bring on the roster as a DH for interleague. And is Carlos Gomez that polarizing? I was advocating FOR him and even I highly-HIGHLY doubt that he's ever going to be the .285/.330 hitter that I proposed if he could learn to lay off the early sliders early out of the zone that might lead to more power.... I said it was a loooong shot, but I'd noticed a difference in his approach. I don't think there was more than 2-3 people who agreed with me...even when I was just saying it's still POSSIBLE at his age though unlikely. People have loved Branyan on here for years. If we were in the AL, he'd be a nice DH option for our budget. But for the short interleague series, I think the Brewers try and go with the three CF'ers and DH Braun. Which I think is only logical as he's NOT himself right now. Neither is Gomez, but as much as I still think it's possible that he COULD still fulfill his potential, Braun's far more important. The one change I'd make is play Gomez in RF so he doesn't have to do as much running and doesn't have to open it up as much with his hammy.

And the next 3 series he'll probably follow it up with 1 for a 4 for 44 with 24 K's. And he's more useful than Conrad how? Conrad can play 3 positions, Branyan can hardly play one and Ishikawa played well enough this year that I'm fine with him on the bench over a guy we have very little use for. It's bf.net meme to worship Branyan. So, you can put down your internet night stick for now. Alllllright. I CAN see how arguing how in our current state that Conrad is a better option than Branyan and how he's an extreme hot/cold hitter would be out of line. If it was just "Look at what Branyan has done," well then hey, he's a cult hero here. When they say we should sign him over this player...well, I'd disagree. Sorry for crossing the line and racking your knuckles with the nightstick however...

And the next 3 series he'll probably follow it up with 1 for 44 with 24 K's. And he's more useful than Conrad how? Conrad can play 3 positions, Branyan can hardly play one and Ishikawa played well enough this year that I'm fine with him on the bench over a guy we have very little use for.

I think it means they're not sure whether he's actually going to be a catcher. Not to further equate him to Lawrie, since I really don't know enough about Coulter to compare their offensive or defensive capabilities, but I think this is why Lawrie pre-emptively asked to move off catcher--so he could move as fast as his bat would carry him (though of course reviews of his D at 2B were hardly consistent either). It's also worth pointing out that Coulter is going to be 19 in less than two months. You'd like to think a 19-year-old first-rounder, especially one not drafted as a Donavan Tate tools goof, could hack it in the Pioneer League. Lawrie was always short sighted about his future position. I thought from the first time I watched him play in Wisconsin he was a 3rd basemen. Didn't have the great quickness around the bag, but had a very strong arm and soft hands. He just wanted the quickest route to the big leagues. Now if Clint is hitting tearing it up, I would gladly move him to a new position. I'd try and do it as early as possible, and 3rd base would be ideal long term, but with Lucroy signed for 5 more years that should and could line up pretty well with his contract(though we're so far away from that, but if he keeps hitting, he could stay a bit longer). I like the mix of talented college bats as well as high upside HS bats. We're well on our way to rebuilding a farm system, but we still lack those 1-2 ELITE prospects. I don't know that we got those out of this group(though the Angels likely didn't think so with Trout either) but they'll certainly help. Profar in a trade for Greinke, as much as it would sting could very easily do just that. Plus some guys like Richardson(who's career was really progressing, so I don't get why he's not playing) Gennett, Garfield and a few others could also help. I expect a top 13 system next time BA comes out and a top 8 if we sell at the deadline.

Yeah, I know, but a 20 year old kid could have just as easily gone back to college where coming into this year he was BA's #9 prospect if he thought he was getting low balled. It sounded like he was just eager to get back on the field which he said he hoped to do this summer.

I like Hunter, but for a guy who can really only play 1st, and doesn't walk that much, I think he needs to bring that slugging up quite a bit in order to truly become a top 10 prospect for most people. It would be nice to see him in AAA this year. I would be more curious how Rivera doesn't "sniff," your top 10 than why you think it outrageous that Morris isn't in it? I'll take a young, projectable SS with a much higher ceiling over a player who's more developed with a more certain floor, but far less of a ceiling. I guess it all goes back to how you evaluate prospects. Does a .300 hitter with a little bit of pop who hasn't draw walks at a very high clip until this year and is limited to 1st base deserve to be ranked higher than a raw player with a far less chance of making it to the big leagues, but a far high chance of making a impact. I go with the latter.

Well, when the Brewers draft a guy and the closest MLB comp is "Jeff Suppan," who in the hell IS going to like that pick! You're talking about the worst signing in Brewers history(with Jeffery Hammonds a close second IMO, but at least we weren't trying to win then). Now that Nelson is hitting 98 and can throw 93-94 with some regularity, is a GB pitcher with the org's best slider, I'm not quite sure how he was ever compared to Suppan. I wish I knew more about some of the DSL guys. I see only Rizzo's results, but don't really have a feeling for his stuff. Is he a guy with a 98 MPH fastball, or a guy who throws 90-91 with average secondary stuff, but knows how to pitch? I'd have to think if his stuff was THAT good that after last year he'd be stateside, but that's obviously a flawed theory. Who knows what the reason is. Maybe he'll be pitching for AZ in rookie ball. A Burgos type pitcher if you will. Though I agree with you, his emergence this year has been extraordinary. Though clearly just as Thornburg was the best thing about our farm system last year, seeing him develop into a potential future top 3 on a playoff caliber team, Nelson is the same for this years team. And while he was drafted a year earlier, I thought he was only 6 months older than Jungman and younger than Thornburg by about a year. Though Bradley's the youngest of the group. Not to mention, despite his struggles, Peralta is right in the middle of those guys in terms of age despite this being his second sting in AAA. Edit-I also think it'd be fun to do a post-draft ranking. Totally useless as we've got so little to go off of, but it'd be interesting. Maybe after rookie ball to give us some type of idea of who should go where. Not to put too much stock into the rookie league results, but better than nothing.

Yeah, I was talking about Haniger with regard to the CF'er and simply forgot about Roache, a corner OF'er, a RF'er who BA had going #9 before the season started and who Law absolutely ripped apart for us taking and reaching for. Taylor seems a little too far away to me to to get excited about. Either way, regardless of Roache, I hope we get to see these guys in AZ and Helena this year to get a feel for them. Also pertty rare to get a guy in the 5th round with an 80 fastball..even with the screws in his elbow. Just improve on his slider and you could have a dominant closer.

For what I read was slightly below slot value? I think this is going to be beneficial with a lot of players signing earlier and getting into camp. When's the last time we saw our 1st round pick playing right out of the gate? Of course we've drafted quite a few pitchers and HS pitchers we move slowly, college arms we are careful with because they've thrown a lot of innings. But it'll be nice to see him play for Helena(guessing) and hopefully get off to a .400 start and pop a few HR's to give us some hope coming into next year. I mean, Trout went 28th(or 27th)...the pick that we were SUPPOSE TO HAVE(calm down....starting to turn green...shirt starting to tear....woo-saa.....alright...better now) when the Yankees decided to sign Mark Texiera as well and based on the flawless system Trout was snatched right out of our hands because we had the #2 FA and the Yankee's signed both #1 AND #2. God I with Tex was a Red Sox right now. I don't know if you actually read anything about Roache but he broke his wrist and had pins and such inserted. He most likely will not be playing anywhere this summer. "I don't know if you actually read anything?" Little arrogant, wouldn't you say? And yeah, I read HIS comments that says he thinks he can start taking full swings in 3 weeks and his wrist is feeling good. I was under the impression that he'd be ready earlier. Still, a touch on the pretentious side, no?

Yeah, I see no need for an outcry. If Coultier, (who I LOVE being someone who wrestled for 18 years) is as good of a bat as we think he is, who cares what year we got him? Same with Roache? And last year was one of the deepest drafts for college arms in a while. So we picked two college arms. You can't take two seasons and try and pick up on some trend. It literally takes more than two years for there to be a trend. What I do know is we picked a guy(and already signed him) that we'd never have been able to have drafted 6 months ago and has huge power, a Catcher with a VERY strong arm and who's bat could play at 3rd or 1st base, and a CF'er with good OB skills and speed in our first three picks. In a system lacking big league talent. Lets wait t see if we can get all our top 20 picks locked up before complaining, because there are some good things in there.

For what I read was slightly below slot value? I think this is going to be beneficial with a lot of players signing earlier and getting into camp. When's the last time we saw our 1st round pick playing right out of the gate? Of course we've drafted quite a few pitchers and HS pitchers we move slowly, college arms we are careful with because they've thrown a lot of innings. But it'll be nice to see him play for Helena(guessing) and hopefully get off to a .400 start and pop a few HR's to give us some hope coming into next year. I mean, Trout went 28th(or 27th)...the pick that we were SUPPOSE TO HAVE(calm down....starting to turn green...shirt starting to tear....woo-saa.....alright...better now) when the Yankees decided to sign Mark Texiera as well and based on the flawless system Trout was snatched right out of our hands because we had the #2 FA and the Yankee's signed both #1 AND #2. God I with Tex was a Red Sox right now.

Little surprised that Roache signed for below slot. That has to help out with a guy like Farmer.

Yeah, well, you're just lucky you never actually got to meet Gumby out at the bar. I was playing pool with my Girl..we were about 23-24, he was....a few drinks in. I get up to get drinks, he sits in my spot as we're shooting pool. It was a Thursday night, so nothing special and a local bar. Gantner tells me to "beat it, he's talking to someone." My GF at this point is rolling her eyes and I can tell wants me to say something. I say, "yeah, you're talking to MY GF sitting ON my seat, but please leave us alone. This 50-somethingi year old guy wanted to go outside to fight. I let him stumble outisde and just sat back down. Great pool player, pretty awful person though. Edit-Agree 100 pct on the rest though....

Peralta's line wasn't pretty, but it looks like he had a pretty good last 3 innings. I checked in on the game and he had given up several hits and 3 ER's already. So to go 6 IP and give up 3 ER's...maybe it's a turning point for him.

That is too bad. Seems like a fair deal that if someone up front bows out and goes to college, that you have a chance to recover by giving a bit more to a later pick to entice him away. Kind of like drafting "backup" 3-4th round picks. I didn't think that was a certainty, and it wasn't how I understood it. Perhaps Sessile Fielder can clear up the confusion and provide a link(though I realize often times that's hard as you hear things or read things and don't recall where you saw it from). But I too was under the impression as well that your pre-draft pool was your pool, regardless of who signed or didn't. Ie, if a 1st rounder spurned you and went to college, you still had the same pool.

Who are the guys we should be following closely from the prep ranks, or even Jr's in college who we're going to need to spend a little bit more on in order to sign some of these guys that are of the Gennett, McFarland, Farmer type category this year? The guys who are slotted to make 100K and who may well end up getting 250-300K by hopefully saving some money earlier in the draft? I don't know a whole lot about some of these guys? Anyone want to fill those of us in who aren't as familiar with who the Brewers are going to have to go over in order to sign and bring aboard?

The problem of course is that it's incredibly difficult to draft well rounded with players with upside, most draft picks are going to have 1 or 2 tools that really intrigue the team and the rest is "development". Obviously if the bat won't play then the player doesn't have a career, it doesn't matter how well he fields. So from that perspective I don't mind the Brewers drafting all bat players, however they do need to identify the proper position and put more development time into every player's defense just like they do their offense. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time and I don't want to go off on a long tangent, but I think the Brewers have definitely left plenty of room to improve their developmental defensive plan in the minors. Today's athletes are just different, the kids now are vastly different than the kids I played with in the early 90s, hell they are different than the kids we had 5 years ago. There just aren't many extremely motivated and/or coachable kids out there that are going do work on their own for their own good, there's too much instant gratification out there for that kind of work ethic. Therefore the organization is going to have to push these guys harder so that a young man like Gamel is making strides defensively way before AA. At some point the Brewers are going to have to buy into athlete building vs the limited athletic development they do now, the days of playing survival of the fittest in the minor leagues are hopefully coming to an end. Speaking of which, I often wonder if the drug problem with speed is a direct result of the crappy treatment of the MiLB players. Most of these young men aren't getting enough rest and for 60 years they didn't eat close to healthy enough meals, so without the internal fuel to burn or enough rest it's no wonder so many turned to speed to keep their energy level/heart rate artificially high just to get through the day. 3-4 years of that in the minors and by the time they hit MLB greenies are an entrenched part of the lifestyle... something to consider at any rate. I think this is just utterly ridiculous and I cannot even fathom what you base this on. That players "you played with," which first I would need to know what level you played at, and B-what direct relationship you have with players now to even begin to give credence to, but to me this is a generational thing. As you get older, it's alwyas, "this generation is softer, these guys don't work has hard as we used to," they don't care enough," which to put it frankly is a load of crap. If ANYTHING, I think players spend MORE time honing their craft now with more specialization in youth and High School athletics. And your argument is one 5th round draft pick. I'll counter with a former 1st rounder in Brett Lawrie who some may or may not like, but who has never been accused of not playing hard every single day, almost going over the top at times. Bottom line, I don't think minor league players have not caring as much or playing hard. I think you have more coaching and more development within the system. Not that they need to be pushed harder, simply that it's smarter to teach them more effectiviiiies. So I don't think that work ethic has anything to do with it. Not do I buy the argument that players used greenies because they weren't getting fed well enough. When you're 18-22, energy is hardly an issue.

Because there is a thought that HS players are going to be harder signs the next couple years with the budgets teams have to work with and that man who get drafted later on, are potentially willing to go and honor their college commitment in hopes of improving their draft stock, ala Rodon.

I know, I kept hearing about how his stuff wouldn't play in AA(much like Fiers) and while we all prefer a guy who can throw 98 like Jimmy Nelson with a strikeout pitch in his slider and a GB pitcher, there's obviously room for pitches who know how to pitch, pitch backwards, keep the ball off the barrel of the bat and just get the job done. Burgos looks like he's really figuring it out.

How much do you want to bet that the Brewers will spend most or all of their bonus pool? Well I'm not entirely sure that they're being cheap, but considering that there were many better players left on the board earlier in the draft and that Roache, Coulter, Hannigan, and Taylor are likely to sign somewhere around or below slot, I'm wondering if the appeal of saving money had something to do with many of these picks. And there were all these better players on the board according to who? "Considering there were many better players elft on the board earlier in the draft." And tell me how many times you went out and scouted ANY of these players? Or are you simply looking at a list and saying, "he rated higher than him, so he's better." I don't recall, but weren't there "plenty of better players when we drafted Gallardo, Prince, and Braun? And maybe signing these players did play SOME role into it. Maybe being able to get them at or below slot so they can try and grade a elite HS talent talent who fell like Rodon last year a pick we could have had for less than 100K more and who is now a possible top overall pick in the 2014 draft? It just drives me nuts these draft day experts who see only a microcosm of the whole process and then accuse the team of being cheap because you heard from this site this player was rated higher. Gets my blood boiling a little bit. Even with Braun, he blows everyone in his class out in WAR save for Tulo who he's still 2 Wins above despite playing jsut 40 more games. Drafts takes at least 5 years to be evaluated. Much les on the spot evaluation.

No offense TLB, but I've never understood how people can claim they didn't take BPA since A-We won't know for 4-5 years who that is, and B-We have no idea who the BREWERS believe those players to be. So I don't understand the shot at Sied and company whatsoever. Especially since you WERE clamoring for Bats early in this draft. Watch video of Taylor's swing, & then tell me you have no doubts he was BPA. Iirc there's a link of his swing in the cage in this thread. And yes, I did want to see early picks spent on bats... which the org. did. This pick in particular is one I'm skeptical of since imo the bat here doesn't look very intriguing. EDIT: Maybe it was in the signing thread (link). The swing just looks like he really leaves his lower half out of it. ... EDIT2: Here is the post that linked to the video I was remembering. Anyway, I'm just not thrilled with this pick in round 2. Looks like a guy who will have to have his swing broken down & reconstructed if he wants to be anything more than a slappy or gap hitter. I realize he's young & there's definitely time for said overhaul, but the first comp. I think of when I watch him swing is a RH Nyjer Morgan. So you're essentially taking your own scouting report and then questioning who the Brewers have rated as BPA? Not trying to be a jerk, but you're the one who referenced something to the afect of "what happened to BPA." And these guys who reportedly watched him play on a REGULAR basis(As they said they saw him play as much as anyone else this year) and you've determined he's not the best player available? I'm normally with you, you know that, but I think at times...on this board, the average fan is a little too quick to judge these elite draft pick(I'd say rounds 1-3 or so are the elite picks) because they didn't like what they saw on a youtube video and they vaguely compare to another player(who by the way...has had WAR's of 5.2 and 4.0 2 of the last 3 years). It's not YOU that I'm sorta taking a stand agianst here. It's the TCO7's who came out IMMEDIATELY and complained and complained for(well, he still hasn't stopped) about the Jimmy Nelson pick because someone happened to use Suppan as a comp) and Jungman because he watched him pitch in the CWS for two starts, his two worst of the year. Immediate judgements based on clips when these scouts watch these players play 6-8-10 times I think is foolish. Hey, we could have just drafted a future .275.385/.550 1B, a CF'er who can be an elite defender and hti .300/.350/.450 with great defense, and a RF'er with 40 HR potential who can hit for average and has a 70 arm. Throw in Braun, Gamel, Weeks, a SS and 3B and things loook good. Just trying to paint the other side of the picture. Really, if we get one of those players to reach one of those ceilings, I'll be happy..And so should most of us.

I'm curious how paying for most than half of a players salary, and having them pitch out the string on a losing team works out MORE than taking a shot on an elite prospect or a couple elite prospects. Who did Lawrie trade work out better for? A team that wasn't going to make the playoffs for a couple years, or the team that got the star pitcher who was awful when needed most(while helping us get there, we probably get there either way). The Greinke trade? Same scenario. Both teams added significant prospects during years they weren't going to compete anyway. Hard to pick a LOSER out of those trades. So I think you're looking at the trades and saying, "the best player in the trade was always the rental player." Yeah, well...probably. However since that team was going to lose them them anyway, did the Indians, a trade that was drastically in our favor really lost that much by NOT having Sabathia for the last 3 months of the season and then getting a supplemental 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick for LaPorta, Bryson, Brantley and Jackson? I think even THAT is hard to say. So..again, you're not factoring that those players are going to leave anyway, and the higher profile the pitcher, the higher demand, the better prospects you get back. If we get a 4 WAR SS for Greinke, despite the fact that he might not end up as good as Greinke, that doesn't mean we lose teh trade.

With respect to your co-worker, I'm going off two things. 1-Scouting reports. 2-Eye test. He looks like he's got a pretty free and easy deliver. Not to mention your co-worker who said that he played with him in the minors is about 10 years old now? 8? When he was running it up there at 96-98.

Unlike the iron-clad Braun, of course. There are a few players I'd deal Braun straight-up for, but not many. Someone like Kershaw or Tulo would be hard to say 'no' to on Braun. This injury prone label that Braun gets(and I know you didn't use that term, but it's out there) just doesn't hold water. He's had some minor strains and little issues that haven't caused him to miss significant time once and as another poster pointed out, he's avered 155 games played. d Tulo has probably missed more games than Braun has in his entire career once or two seasons. So it's fairly obvious for me. Now if you give each player the same contract that Braun has, I think I'd take Kemp, Harper, Trout, no pitchers, and in another year or two Lawrie and Profar with their defensive ability,both being very good to elite defenders could chane things. COULD. And Buster Posey is in that discussion. So...yeah, Tulo.... The Jeter comment is an interesting one though. People overrate Jeter so often they don't often realize how great he was. But if we're going to go back to 1998, Arod certainly blows Jeter out of the water. I think it's more interesting to think about what prospects you think could end up being as good as or more valuable than Braun. Trout, Harper, Lawrie, Moore, Profar, Bundy.... but that's too hard. Either way, I'm sure there would have been players that were more valuable than Robin Yount in 1978, 1980, but it's hard to put a price on have a guy grouw up with a player, haveing young kids get to watch that player play their entire career for the Breweers. Have kds who are 10 now watc hh him for the next 8 years. Pretty awesome. Time to look to a 3 year extension for Yo for 45 million IMO.