HiAndTight

I don't get the Gamel hate either. If the Brewers don't give him a real chance this year or next then they are truly stupid. So what if some guys just rub you the wrong way. Live with it. There's lots of unseemly people who play sports and many of them are productive. I think Gamel will be a semi-stud and certainly a worthy starting third baseman for half a decade. You don't think you're taking juuuust a bit of a leap in assuming the reason the Brewers aren't playing Gamel because he "rubs them the wrong way"?I think that's absolutely ridiculous and I don't think it has anything to do with anything. They had another rookie raking last year and Gamel was not. Simple as that.

It is. The answer however is simple, because fans are impatient and reactionary in nature. Just so little patience. It really has to suck to be a young player and be under so much pressure. Basically if you don't perform right away, the pressure just grows exponentially. I cannot understand why you would EVER boo any players on YOUR team. That said, Suppan plus a solid prospect for Mike Lowell is a HUGE win for us IMO. The prospect would top out at a.....guy not in our top 30. So "solid" may be pushing it. A David Welsch type pitcher. Maybe Eric Farris. Lowell is still good enough to get 60 starts at 3rd base IMO, and be a great option off the bench. Gamel is not only hurt, but he may not be quite ready yet. I really love his swing....so easy and fluid and I think he can be a dynamic #2 hitter for us for the future....a guy who can come in and hit .310+ with a .385 OBP while hitting Lefties better than Righties. Not a Gold Glover, but not terrible either....so wanting someone else as a short fix does not mean we don't like Gamel.

I think that's just a trade neither side has the incentive to make. The Mariners certainly don't need an OF'er right now. They do need a pitcher, but who doesn't. And Saunders is a fairly substantial prospect. He'd easily rate as the best OF prospect we have right now by a considerable margin. And obviously on our end you're giving up on another VERY talented young Left Hander who's got all the talent needed to thrive. Just little motivation for either team.

I understand I'm playing the Devils advocate here in the sense that I believe Braun may second guess his decision to sign that 8 year 45 million dollar deal. That said, I don't believe he's doing anything to try and force his way out of Milwaukee, nor do I believe he will play anywhere else for the next 5 years...(at least). (edit: long nested quote --1992)

So you're trying to equate your morning transportation to Ryan Braun's decision to possibly leave 40-50 million dollars on the table? You're right, to suggest he's going to become a malcontent IS another issue. I'm not defending that point of view. I also don't know that I understand where the DOT correlation comes into play. I didn't suggest Braun was blaming anyone, rather I find it not only possible, but probably that he likely questions his decision to sign the contract he did when he sees others pulling in huge contracts.

From the Ryan Braun interview with Tim Allen thread. Witrado is an awful journalist. This one I VEHEMETLY disagree with. Do you honestly expect Braun to say anything differently? And do you expect Braun to go on the record saying anything differently? What's more, do you not think it's possible that Witrado having spent as much time as he has within the clubhouse and around the team that he's heard rumblings about Braun's take on his contract, or even from Braun himself? Finally, do you think it's even the least bit surprising that Braun would be having a little...."signers remourse"....for lack of a better term? He sees Joe Mauer get 23 million a year....that's half of Braun's total deal. Now Im not saying I think it was dumb for him to sign, so I don't need the whole laundry list of reasons why signing was a good decision by him, but in this case I can understand Braun having a little hesitation about having signed when he did. By the way, when Prince signs, it's only going to get worse. I DO hope however that Braun's ridiculously below market value contract will help us out in the future. I could see us offering something like 6 years 100 million to him when he's got 2 years left and him jumping on it. That's just a random guess as one has no idea where the market will be at the time, but something around what is 16-17 million dollars RIGHT NOW.

I would agree, however almost none of us gets to see them often enough to make informed opinions based on that alone. I see several games in Appleton(or did last year rather) and have made it to a handful of games on different vacations as I've passed through on my way to Florida or wherever it may be, and in all honesty those can almost do more harm than good. We watch 162 Brewers games every eyar and we still fall victim to the "it just seems like" way of thinking. It just "seems like" Corey Hart always comes through with the big hit(just an example), and then we look at he has a .190 BA with RISP. I think the best we can hope for is to read as many different opinions as possible, see what you can for yourself, and try to form as informed an opinion as you possibly can.

Is this the part where we just declare Bill Hall all that is wrong with Pro-Sports? Bill Hall's problem was not from a lack of effort. It was IN MY OPINION largely from a stubborness to adjust and change the type of player he is...of course that is also based largely on conjecture.

I didn't realize this was a referendum on ESPN. Not sure how you can claim this is a made up story. Just because? I'm quite sure you're not just going to take their word for it as I can't imagine you would believe a GM when they say they're not talking about trading a certain player, much less two fo the biggest names in the game. I'm most assuredly not suggesting this is a trade that's going to happen. I do however believe that this is something that the Phillies front office has discussed internally, as they should. Looking on from the outside, watching their potential issues as they try and talk contract with Pujols, they'd be doing an awful job to not at least discuss trying to acquire one of the best of all time. Especially when at least they have a .260/.410 45+ HR guy to start a package with. Now as to whether the Cards will be able to sign Pujols, I don't pretend to know for certain either way, but something tells me with Holliday there making nearly 20 a year, Lohse, Carp and Wainwright coming up, not to mention Molina, that spending nearly 30 million dollars a year on Albert Pujols may be a little tougher than you seem to think. I certainly don't see it as a "done deal" by any means, and think that if he were to hit the open market he could get the biggest contract ever. Possible 28-29 a year? I can only imagine Boston or New York just salivating at the chance to get Pujols in their lineup's...

I agree to a certain extent. I think that Fielder would necessarily return one really good prospect - someone on the level of LaPorta when he was traded for CC. I, personally, would not give up Smoak for him as the Rangers, but they type of return is conceivable. That said, he's not going to return a Texeira-type package for the reason you indicate. It's important not to forget that Atlanta thought they had a really good shot at signing him to a home-town discount when they acquired him (GT guy), but obviously a club-friendly extension never materialized. I can't envision a scenario where Fielder doesn't hit free agency unless he resigns with the Brewers. I don't agree that you can't expect a Texiera type package. Obviously not if you take the players as they're currently rated, but that's the whole point of having a good scouting department. I also don't believe the reason the Braves made the trade was because they thought they had a good chance of signing him because he went to Georgia Tech. He's from Maryland, so it's really not his hometown anyway. Regardless, the Braves traded for a season and a half of Texira because they thought they were a big power bat away from contending. I also think if their trading for Tex relied upon t hem believing they could re-sign him, they would have at least inquired about that prior to completing the trade(After being given permission from Texas of course). More likely they knew he had Boras, they knew they had a very talented team and they were simply going for it for a year and a half and trading from a surplus(catcher as Salt was easily the key piece at the time) and several very talented, but less revered type players. So I absolutely believe we're going to be able to get a very attractive package for Prince should we decide to trade him, especially if we were to trade him now.

Well, he had two good years, but that's aside the point. Just trying to dispel the notion that he had one big year and the Brewers just jumped and gave him this big deal. Anyway, there are the type of stories that get ME mad but for other reasons. It's truly a cowardly move. Don't blast a player and then hide yourself. I don't think Bill Hall partied too much and that's why he was 3 feet off on sliders. I think he, as you said, just simply wasn't-that-good. And others factors, maybe he pressed, whatever. He wasn't as bad as his last year here, but he very simply isn't worthy of the contract handed out.

I think what he's saying is you would vote on it. All the scouting directors. The top 25 best basketball teams is subjective, but all the coaches vote on it. That's not to defend this asinine idea in any way. It's about as bad an idea as I've ever heard.

So to be fair, your frustration with the organization is because you're not sure what they'll do in the event that Gamel performs well in AAA and McGehee DOESN'T perform well in the big leagues?

Don't Richie Sexson and Jeromy Burnitz count? A couple of pretty nice additions to the Brewers in their "glory" years!

I think everyone rates 2nd base defense very high and I think we all have a pretty damn good idea that a double play is important. A single out is rather important as well. What's more, again, I think every 2nd basemen throws the ball off his back foot. Otherwise, you're going to go all Jim Gantner circa 1989 and blow out a knee something ugly.

How is that any different from what the Brewers have done? Granted the Rays have picked higher, but it's not like the Brewers haven't had their share of top 10 picks (Fielder, Weeks, Sheets, LaPorta, Braun, Rogers). And I would argue that the Rays have missed on their fair share of top picks. In their franchise history they have picked Josh Hamilton, Rocco Baldelli, Dewon Brazelton, B.J. Upton, Delmon Young, Jeff Niemann, Wade Townsend, Evan Longoria, David Price and Tim Beckham with top 10 picks. Hamilton was let go because of drug addiction, Baldelli was never that impressive, Brazelton was a bust, Upton has been up and down just like Weeks, Young is a bust, Niemann has been pretty good, Townsend got hurt and then released, Longoria is a stud, Price is a great young talent who will probably be very good, very soon and Beckham has been less than impressive in two years in the minors. That's pretty similar drafting, but when has Melvin ever gone out and traded for a pitcher like Matt Garza? When has he ever traded a good hitting prospect for a good pitching prospect? Well obviously Young the bust was traded for Garza, so Young wasn't a bust while in Tampa. Pitching is about luck as much as anything. Some teams develop it better without a doubt, but some teams are lucky, some are not. The Brewers haven't been very lucky. Thats' the largest difference between the two. You can point to two trades if you'd like, the Victor Zambrano trade for Kazmir that Duquette pulled off, but will ALWAYS for some unkown reason be blamed on Phillips, and the Garza trade. As was previously stated, anyone would have traded for Kazmir, but who would you have wanted to trade for Garza? Weeks? That's about what it'd have taken at the time. Young was still highly regarded, though he'd lost some value, and the same could be said for Garza. Finally, as for Tim Beckham, for an 18 and 19 year old Shortstop, he hasn't been bad at all.....

He did manage to turn Delmon Young into Matt Garza though, gotta give him a lot of credit for that. And Edwin Jackson into Matt Joyce....

I can most definitely assure you that's not true. How? Because I don't care. I mean, it's nice he's having a kid, but I don't really care, and I'm not going to pass judgement. The comment about your kids only being born once also wasn't pasing judgement in MY opinion, simply stating what they'd do.

Does that ever actually work?? I hear the idea get thrown around a lot regarding ligament damage, but it never seems to end well. Either the guy tries to do strengthening rehab for several weeks, realizes it's not going to work, and ends up having surgery anyway (and now they're several weeks behind in their recovery) -- or they actually do end up trying to play through it but are a shell of their former selves. No, it never seems like it works....though I'm sure it has. The prospect of a lenghty rehab vs the small chance you can strengthen the ligaments and muscles around the injured one and be able to come back is a positive risk vs reward. Risk you're a couple weeks behind in a 18 month rehab, reward, can cone back for the season.

Hard to argue against that. Of course you could also argue that Sheeter was the best if you compare the two AT their best. Kinda representative of the organization for about 20 years there with Higura and Sheets both being so talented, but having such limited success due to their injuries. Throw in Nieves as well.

And when did we ever make such an offer to either CC or Prince? You lost me somewhere along the way here. I thought we were talking about the actual offer made to CC when they were initially offering one year more and then relating that deal to what we may offer Prince.

I don't believe anyone has suggested in any way shape or form that Prince didn't help the Brewers achieve the success they've enjoyed the last couple years including the playoff year, so making that type of argument really doesn't serve any purpose. We all know he had a large role in it. It's your position that Prince Fielder is going to help more than "three 20 year olds" that I call into question. First of all, there's a distinction to be made between just 3 20 year old kids and a couple of the games elite prospects, the later of which Fielder would command. So it's really a couple of elite prospects AND nearly 20 million dollars a year or Prince Fielder. When you don't try and skew the actual debate it ends up being far less obvious. Personally I would have dealt Prince this off-season and I would have hated to do it. I would have tried to package Prince+Hardy or Prince plus a couple of other nice pieces and tried to pry Bumgardner and Posey away from San Fran. Once I awoke from such a dream, I'd have sought out piching rich teams such as Boston, Texas and San Fran and tried to pry away an elite arm, Kelly, Feliz, Madison and a future 1st basemen, Smoke, Andersen, Villalona... And then take that 150 million and lock up Gallardo, perhaps sign Chapman, go BPA every single round for the next 10 years and probably get what would equal 20-25 additional top 30-45 talents in the later rounds by meeting bonus demands. And still have about 75 million dollars left. Seriously, I love Prince but I think of all the ways that money could improve this team without assuming the same risk and, again, it becomes much more complex than arguing we wouldn't have won X amount of games without Prince. The only way I sign him, and I've said this before is if this next year you feel our farm system is ready to start consistently develop impact arms for the next several years and is capable of producing 2-3 good, solid big league pitchers, a couple GOOD relievers, and then a flow of positional players. You need to be able to make up for that salary by developing more peripheral players from within as well. Utility IF'ers, Loogy's, long men...any number of ways you can develop from within. That and I'd like to see Gallardo locked up before doing so. Yo should recieve a deal in the 6 year, 50-54 milion dollar range. I understand Yo could always get injured, but with nice and easy deliver, I just don;'t see the see him dealing with injury concerns.

Yeah, I know it's become the popular opinion that it was simply for show, but I don't, nor did I ever believe that. It was certainly less than CC was going to be offered elsewhere, but with the talk about him not wanting to play in NYC, our offer certainly wasn't a joke, and the Brewers made it clear there was room to improve the offer. It just so happened the Yankee's started bidding against themselves and things got a little out of control. But to suggest it was for show is pretty insulting to the front office IMO......

I don't know, I don't think he's gotten anyone "really good" for Wilson and Laroche because neither are really good players. He did turn Freddy Sanchez into Tim Alderson, and he did pick up Jose Tabata and a couple solid arms for a loogy and a journeyman LF'er in the midst of a career year. He turned Nate McLouth into Gorky's Hernandez. Got Jeff Clement for Wilson and Snell, a very nice "buy low" type move IMO. As for his drafts, he's been in Pitt for 2 years and his two first rounders have to be considered successful picks thus far. Tony Sanchez was looked upon as a cheap pick, a guy they thought would sign for under slot. Huntington vehemetly denied this, and it looks after one season that he was right. Sanchez had a very, very good 1st year hitting Hi A and putting up a .950 OPS in 3 stops as the Buccs catcher of the future. So while I don't think he's done a great job yet, mainly because it's simply too early, I don't agree that you can say his drafts have been awful, as both of his first rounders look to be middle of the order, franchise building type picks. Honestly, between McCutchen, Tabata, Clement, Hernandez, Alvarez and Sanchez(off the top of my head), they've got some nice sticks coming up.

Yeah, seems like he's ranked there based on past reputation from his Brewers stint more than anything at this point. Yeah, most likely that's largely responsible for his status, but I don't know that I disagree with that per say. Unless you're not going to rank any GM's until they've got 2-3 years in, which would probably be the only truely legit way to do it, you have to go off of the resume and your opinion of the recent moves that have been made as they haven't had time to prove their worth one way or the other. Personally I think Jack Z's done a very good job, and if he can lock up Lee for anything short of Barry Zito type money, I'll think he's done a grerat job. I think Chone Figgins was actually a steal. A Legit leadoff hitter is worth 10 million annually IMO. I like him really going for it with Lee pairing him atop the rotation with King Felix whom he also locked up. I think a legit middle of the order hitter is the only thing they're lacking, and Milton Bradley was a shrewd move and a very possible fix to that problem. He's also very possibly lighter fluid.........