3and2Fastball
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Everything posted by 3and2Fastball
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100 is average but somehow 98 is absurdly bad? OK, good point. However, HiAndTight refers to Lawrie as a "potential MVP candidate someday". I just don't see it, and a 98 OPS+ as a 3B in his year 22 season makes future projections as an MVP seem a little, well, farfetched. Of course Mike Schmidt had a 92 OPS+ and worse stats than Lawrie when Schmidt was 23 years old, so what do I know?!
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I find Melvin's comments in that regard fascinating in that they are pure revisionist history. I think in order for that to happen Melvin would've had to fire himself because I can find no indication in any way whatsoever that the Brewers ever considered playing Lawrie at 3B! At the time of the trade for Marcum, Melvin spun it that Lawrie was "blocked at 2B by Weeks". Lawrie never played one inning at 3B in the Brewers organization, including spring training games
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HiAndTight, I think you continue to overrate Brett Lawrie. Time will tell on that one but right now he has an OPS+ of 98 which is absurdly bad. Next year he'll be the same age as Braun was in his rookie year, we'll see how he does in comparison to a truly great MVP. Lawrie is hurt again now, too, and his makeup and style of play sure looks like he the potential for an injury prone career. I agree it would have been wonderful if the Brewers had taken Trout in the 2009 draft. I like the potential of Jean Segura more than Escobar. And I love the reality of making the NLCS in 2011. Ultimately, I think "Point Beer is Best" completely nails it in that aquiring Furcal was a big difference maker in determining who was better between the Cardinals & Brewers last year. I agree that if the Brewers had traded for Furcal last year, our chances of making the 2011 World Series would have been elevated significantly. I'd rather have 1.5 years of Greinke plus 6 years of Jean Segura plus the Angels prospect pitchers we received than Cain, Escobar, and the rest in that trade....
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I've always been somewhat fascinated by the "what if" of "what if the early Negro League stars like Oscar Charleston, Josh Gibson & Smokey Joe Williams were allowed to play in MLB?".... so I'd go back and attend one of those barnstorming tours where the Negro League All-Stars played a team of MLB stars. I'd sure like to see the time that Babe Ruth faced off against Satchell Paige or when Josh Gibson stepped up to the plate with Walter Johnson on the mound For my 2nd game I'd set the Delorean for Milwaukee, County Stadium, October 6th, 1957, 11am CST (I'd want a little time to check out the surroundings and get to my seat) to see Game 4 of the 1957 World Series. Warren Spahn pitched 10 innings in that game and got the win, and Hank Aaron & Eddie Mathews both hit HR's. Mathews' HR was a walk off in the 10th inning after Spahn had surrendered the lead in the top of the 10th. I can only imagine the bedlam that ensued when Mathews hit that shot.... The Yankees were up 2 games to 1 at that time, and that was a huge pivotal game in that series
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I've been thinking more about this while I read all these great responses. I think some of the most valuable pitchers of all-time have been the durable workhorses like Walter Johnson, Warren Spahn and Satchel Paige who could start games and be dominating as starters but who also could come out of the bullpen on their days off in big games.
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thanks.... that is very interesting.... so there is a point in which adding more offense to an already very strong offensive team makes less sense than adding more pitching
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That is very interesting to me, can you elaborate on that please? In what context would a team benefit more from Mariano Rivera instead of Willie Mays? Wouldn't even a great team be better off adding a Mays to an already explosive lineup and just going with a Wilhelm or Hoffman as a closer?
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Thanks for your response. I will think about that. I admit I do take postseason performances into consideration quite a bit, however I tend to look at them more as "tie-breakers" (i.e. if 2 players are very close in ability and career stats, a look at their postseason results helps me consider which player performed better on the biggest stage under the biggest pressure) As to your other points, that makes perfect sense. A great closer doesn't matter much if the team can't get them the lead. I would actually advocate using a teams best relief pitcher late in games against the oppositions 2 through 5 hitters, regardless of inning, but that is perhaps a different topic
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That is true. But then the difference between, say, Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman seems fairly monumental (in terms of blown saves in big games and ERA in the postseason) than the difference between say Willie Mays and Tris Speaker....
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Thanks for your responses. Maybe my choices were wrong (I spose I consider both Maddux & Mays around #4 or #5 all-time, maybe I'm overrating Maddux) What I'm mostly interested in is do you value pitching over hitting or vice versa? What if the choice was Walter Johnson vs Babe Ruth? Or Rogers Clemens vs Oscar Charleston? And is there ever a time when Mariano Rivera would be considered as important as a great pitcher or position player?
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For a long time I've considered a Great Closer to not be the equal of a great starter or great position player, but recent events with the Brewers have me questioning that to a degree. If you could choose between (in their peaks), say, Mariano Rivera or Willie Mays or Greg Maddux, the addition of which of those players on the 2012 Brewers would put the Brewers in the playoffs? In the past I would have considered that a foolish question. But no matter how many extra runs Mays would provide, or how much value having Maddux in his peak every 5th day would add, would it really matter if the bullpen kept blowing the games? In terms of this years Brewers, Rivera might be the best choice But then that is too simplified a question. It still seems to me that if you have a solid but unspectacular bullpen, it is still more important to have great starting pitching or great position players. I'd rather have Warren Spahn with Hoyt Wilhelm in the bullpen than, say, Jim Palmer with Mariano Rivera in the bullpen What do you guys think? If you could add Willie Mays or Greg Maddux or Mariano Rivera to your team, which player would you add?
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I think I would keep everyone and take a shot at competing in 2013, including even doing as one year contract with Marcum. I would let Morgan & K-Rod, Wolf & Loe go from this years team, but I think a lineup of Aoki Gomez Braun Ramirez Hart Weeks Segura Lucroy can compete as long as the pitching is fairly strong... I'd be concerned but optimistic about Gallardo-Fiers-Marcum-Rogers-Thornburg/Peralta/Estrada in my rotation. I would look to shore up the bullpen and try to add a starting pitcher over the winter. I think Weeks can bounce back and in general I think the overall lineup is too talented to just blow them all up
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Casey McGehee to the Yankees for Chad Qualls
3and2Fastball replied to torts's topic in Milwaukee Brewers Talk
Casey has 2 walks and 2 runs scored in his pinstripe debut today He had a 6 week streak from June 1st to mid-July where he batted .310 with 7 HR's. It blows my mind that the Pirates actually got the better (so far, maybe Veras will turn it around) of the McGehee-Veras trade. I never saw that coming -
Tim Raines had 71 SB's in his rookie year, in 88 games! He also had a .304/.391 BA/OBP with a 135 OPS+
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Shoeless Joe Jackson in 1911: a .408 BA (!), 41 SB's, 193 OPS+, 45 Doubles, 19 Triples... wow
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While it is difficult to measure in stats, Johnny Bench's rookie year in 1968 as a 20 year old was pretty remarkable: he caught 154 games that year displaying extraordinary & revolutionary defense, throwing out 47% of base-runners while batting .275 with 15 HR's, 40 Doubles and 82 RBI's
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I would say Babe Ruth's rookie season in 1915 was also better than Pujols/Lynn/Ichiro: In 1915 Ruth went 18-8 with a 2.44 ERA while batting .315 with a 188 OPS+!
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Fred Lynn had a 162 OPS+ in his rookie year, Pujols had a 157 OPS+, and Williams had a 160 OPS+ Williams' .436 OPB compared to Lynn's .401, and 145 RBI's compared to Lynn's 105, more than makes up for the 2 OPS+ points, in my opinion. Plus the 31-21 HR advantage
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Ted Williams says hello.... Williams in 1939 BA: .327 OBP: .436 SLG: .609 Hits: 185 HR: 31 RBI: 145 (led league) Runs: 131
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The East Coast media bias extended a little south from New York City
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"No one" seems like kind of a harsh nickname for Yuni B, but hey I hear ya!
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2 for 4 with a Double and a stolen base. Looking forward to seeing him start at SS in 2013
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have SWORE you were one of those telling me I was overrating Profar and that I was undervaluing Profar by saying that I didn't think we could get Profar for Greinke straight up. Now you're thrilled they got a vastly, vastly inferior(though still very-very good player) player over 3 years older than Profar, but not as good at the same level? Or am I mistaken? If the later, I do apologize. No sir, I didn't think you overrated Profar. I love Profar and think he will be a superstar. I was saying that I did not think the Brewers could get Profar because I knew (well, I suspected) that the Rangers would refuse to trade Profar. Considering that Profar was never really a possibility (or at least it would appear that way), I'm thrilled we got Segura. Generally I agree with most of your posts
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Not a fan of this move. Did Kyles stock the bullpen with this level of talent? Nope. Can't fire the GM, so Kyles is the scapegoat Did Kyles mismanage the bullpen like Roenicke did? Can't fire the Manager, so Kyles is the scapegoat. I would hope, at the very least, that Melvin & Roenicke were given warnings to get their act together or they will be next, but I very seriously doubt it. To be clear: I'm not saying that I think DM & RR should be fired, but I certainly believe that if anyone was going to get fired it should be them long before it is Kyles bush league knee jerk pass the buck move
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There is a huge and monumental difference in the quality of bullpen management from Roenicke to the greats like Tony LaRussa and Joe Torre, I'll grant you that. I just wonder how much worse Roenicke is than the average MLB manager. Yost used to be just as bad. Asking because I honestly don't know....