Boomer5

Braun to DL. Torres DFA I'm guessing. I don't see a fit with the Tigers. Trading prospects for two old expensive guys and Wilson is the opposite of acquiring young controllable talent.

2 months rentals was not the plan. It was young controllable talent, or so I thought.

That's about what we expected. Ortiz is interesting but has conditioning concerns. Ray isn't much of anything but he was still the 5th pick in the draft. I'd say the third guy would have to be someone who was considered top 10-15 prospect entering the season.

I think the thought process is that Cordell won't help the team this year and won't be protected on the 40 next ... same thing with Cooper. Swarzak has no future control so this one is a little tougher... but it is a positive on the major league squad for a bit whereas Cordell would have gotten taken next year in the Rule 5 and therefore provided nothing. I think anyway... I get that part. We have too many meh guys in the minors. Good enough where you'd lose them eventually in Rule 5 but not good enough to make a big difference at the MLB level. A deep farm system isn't really a compliment if the depth isn't sprinkled with 60's. The issue I have is the guy we traded for is 31 and will only be here two months. I thought the entire DS plan was to acquire controllable talent? Swarzak isn't controllable and by definition Cordell really wasn't either based on the 40 man.

What happened to acquiring controllable talent? A 25 year old prospect for a 31 year old rental. Swarzak is having a tremendous year but this isn't really supposed to be the plan

862 OPS. Yeah he totally sucks. /sarcasm

I think at this point after the free fall that both MA and DS are on the same page. I do think a NBA style trade where we net controllable talent in exchange for taking a bad contract could happen though.

I would like this move given Counsell's propensity to run. However, I would not offer a significant amount of talent to acquire him (Cordell-type) given Dubon is in Triple AAA and Diaz is still coming. A deal of Cordell and Villar for Dee is about the extent of what I would offer. Hiura is going to pass Diaz if he hasn't already. At this point, Diaz doesn't appear to be a future major leaguer. He is still young of course but a 718 OPS in A doesn't suggest he is a top 10 prospect. Dubon is interesting though he doesn't seem like a difference maker that Hiura will be.

The pitcher is 2 for 2.

That is not a concern at Miller Park right now. The grade on Stearns is not based on flukey hot streaks by guys who haven't done it before and likely won't sustain it like Junior and Villar. It will be based on Diaz, Dubon, Brinson, Ortiz, Nottingham, Peralta, Ray, Bickford et al.

[sarcasm]You don't think a 31 year old having a career year after having a 609 OPS in 1331 PA's seems like a fluke to you?[/sarcasm]

I really have no idea why Kinsler is a guy we are even thinking about now. Is our clubshouse in trouble that his intangibles matter? Doesn't seem that way. This seems like a close group. We have Sogard as a stop gap and Villar as the lottery ticket. We have Dubon and Hiura on the farm. We were just told 4 months ago we had no use for a 2B only player. Why trade anything for one now when we gave up a superior player?

Agree X 100000

They need both Phillips and Brinson at this point. Broxton is beyond struggling and Braun can't be called on to play a week straight. Broxton was my favorite of the lost cost DS pick ups. He just hasn't panned out. He has the tools but he is missing fastballs right down the middle.

Agreed. The last thing we need is a middle infielder. We traded for several and used our first round pick on one this year. We just unloaded Segura and Scooter and we have Villar and Sogard is having a career year and just came off the DL. Enough 2B for this team. Hard pass on Kinsler.

Johnbriggs is right, though, that our GM does lack deadline deal experience to a certain extent! You may disagree with him on certain points and I do too, but DS hasn't ever been lead dog in a deadline buyer deal. The reflective, calculating position can take a backseat when GMs want an answer NOW and time to make wise, quick decisions are needed. That being said, DS gets an A or A+ for his job With the Brewers thus far.... simply amazing. Briggs is correct. There is a huge difference between trading away what turned out to be excellent trade chips and being the front runner and outmaneuvering a guy the caliber of Epstein Had DS made zero moves of any kind and just retained his roster, our team would still be quite competitive in a down 2017 NL Central 1B Lind 2B Scooter SS Arcia 3B Segura LF Davis CF Phillips RF Santana C Lucroy Bench Braun, Perez, Maldonado P: Nelson P: Davies P: Garza P: Suter P: Woodruff Closer Kintzler Set Up: Knebel 7th: Hader Yeah that not a perfect team of course but no one would make zero moves in a year and half. But it does go to show that there were plenty of excellent trade chips to play with for the incoming GM. The Red Sox trade is one of the franchises all time best. I do like the Rangers trade though that wasn't the deal he wanted. So 2017 the MLB roster would have been just fine. Where we are going forward is all based on the following: 1. Is Shaw going to be a All Star caliber cornerstone going forward? 2. Can Anderson and Nelson continue their excellent 2017 going forward? 3. Will Brinson make the jump to be our regular 2018 CF and be the guy we all think he is? 4. Will Villar bounce back or if not can we reasonably expect Sogard to play well next year? 5. Can Braun give us a 120 game season next year because he is not tradable. Phillips is a good option for LF if he isn't. 6. Can we fix the bullpen? 7. Is a rotation of Nelson, Davies, Anderson, Garza, Suter/Woodruff good enough in 2018? 8. What is the realistic projection of Ortiz, Woodruff, and Dubon for the 2018 Brewers as I assume those are the closest guys we have to the Majors? 9. Will our farm have the performance that is more in line with the projection? We had a number of guys who started as top 100 who fell off by mid season. It's not getting a lot of talk here but that is a far worse development than our current free fall.

All things considered, this is the worst loss of the season. The clock struck midnight on us. Too bad. This could have been such a magical season.

The Cubs are looking quite vulnerable. Yes they can probably hit far better than they have been, but their depth down on the farm is non-existent and their rotation is looking old even with adding Quintana. Again, according to the analytics we are currently far from them in terms of MLB talent but as our young guys are coming up, their current guys are getting older and the gap should close.

Wilson is one of the biggest trade chips at the deadline. The reports I have seen suggest 10 teams are talking to the Tigers about him. I am guessing they wont be throwing in much if anything on the bad contract assuming we would be giving up a guy like Nottingham as our headliner. If we upgrade to a top 10 prospect then they'd probably put in some money.

Not a bad idea, but still a lot of money for a Brewer team that hasnt shown this kind of spending before except for Brauns deal.

That makes sense. Verlander isn't a Brewer kind of pick up. If the analytics are correct, the Brewers aren't close to being a playoff ready team so picking up a contract that big at his age doesn't make a lot of sense. However, that would mean the package for Wilson would be through the roof since there isn't a bad contract offset.

He is owed $56M plus a possible $22M vesting option plus the remainder of 2017. To the Dodgers that is chump change but the Brewers have never taken on anything like that by many orders of magnitude. With the Brewers payroll being so low this is intriguing but does this hamper future moves? Right now the only guys we have under contract for next year are Braun and Thames so our payroll is gong to go way up whether we are winning or not. Yeah, the Brewers with Verlander, Braun, Thames, and the 15 other guys on the 25 that we're fairly certain about would add up to about $70 million for 2018 and 2019. I'd bet that Mark could spend up to $120 nowadays if he wanted to so there would be room for filling out the last 5 or so slots. The thing with the roster is that we don't have many spots where we'd be dropping a ton of money to upgrade. If the $22 million option vests - I'd call it a victory. That means he'd be a top 5 Cy Young candidate in 2019. This is like the Eric Gagne contract in my opinion. 80% of fans will be losing their mind when he has a 4.50 ERA next year because he's getting paid $28 million. However, it's not a "huge undertaking" because it's not like it's a 7-year deal. It's only a 2-year commitment unless he's really good, which then I'm fine taking the 3rd year. Same with Gagne. It was an "overpay" of $10 million but who cares? It was mostly a strikeout of a contract but it was off the books the following year. It won't set the Brewers back a ton unless they miss out on some big ticket trade or signing for 2019 that also has a massive contract. With the way he's pitching I'm not sure I really want him in the first place - but if Mark insists on spending $ at the major league level, this still won't really affect our ability to buy players or keep our own going forward so go ahead if he wishes. The vested option would likely move to a player option to waive his no trade.

Wilson is out of our price range unless we take on a ton of money like Verlander. He won't be a FA until 2019 and has a .94 WHIP and 12.5 K/9. Looking at what relievers usually go for, especially leftys, this would be a minimum Phillips and one of top 5 guys if this was a straight up trade. I'd still do it. You can't look at the players you give up now as the net cost. If they don't contend in 2018, he'll be moved and they'll get a very nice prospect back. I might as well. I'm just suggesting this is a massive investment that the Brewers have never taken on before.

He is owed $56M plus a possible $22M vesting option plus the remainder of 2017. To the Dodgers that is chump change but the Brewers have never taken on anything like that by many orders of magnitude. With the Brewers payroll being so low this is intriguing but does this hamper future moves? Right now the only guys we have under contract for next year are Braun and Thames so our payroll is gong to go way up whether we are winning or not.

Wilson is out of our price range unless we take on a ton of money like Verlander. He won't be a FA until 2019 and has a .94 WHIP and 12.5 K/9. Looking at what relievers usually go for, especially leftys, this would be a minimum Phillips and one of top 5 guys if this was a straight up trade.