tmwiese55

[sarcasm]Taking 4-5 days off is just a disaster for relief pitchers, no way they can be trusted to pitch after rust like that.[/sarcasm] So hopefully Jeffress makes it and gets an inning. Seriously though, he better get in since he's legit been the best reliever in the NL this year.

In all seriousness if Burnes becomes a bullpen piece he's an addition, not someone you move. If we trade him to get Machado you probably end up trading more prospects away to fill a bullpen spot that Burnes can just fill. Could see him stepping in this year into a similar role as Hader. That provides quite a bit of value too right now. Come crunch time of season or playoffs and there's trouble early for our generally mid level type starters and boom you can bring either of them in for 2-3 innings. OF course it's only one game but with how he's used to pitching multiple innings you can see how it could work like Hader. More I think about I just don't think you can give MLB ready pitching controlled for 7 years for a rental

Perfect, let Burnes finish and they should have the whole pen besides JJ tomorrow.

If we're talking deGrom through 2020 I'm interested. No way it's worth a rental bat. Yep, that follows what's been the blue print so far. I just can't even comprehend giving up 6 years of a cheap young arm for 3 months of a bat. the more I think about I think that's where I'm at too. he's just too ready for MLB at this point to still be considered a prospect. At least the way I think about it anyway, as in he's ready now so you know he's at least making the majors. Will he live up to it and do well, of course nothing is for sure. but as opposed to someone where this is a huge percent chance he never even makes it to mlb

Throw Woodruff in there too...and add Brown or modeiros in 2020 - not even really kidding Having piles of pitching is fun! yea where was just a couple of these guys in 2009-2012

Great start. If it came down to him being the only top prospect given for Machado I accept it but man I'd hope they find a way without him

well played.

Miller made a heck of a play in last nights game that I think ended a rally and saved runs. But yea he's had a few errors already too

saladino is supposed to be very good at D. Errors happen, Arcia has committed some too. Funny with the Machado comments. I had MLB network on earlier and they were doing a talk on Britton's value and showed highlights from what I understood to be last night's game but could be wrong it was older. He gave up a hit to SS where it seemed like routine for a normal SS, Machado barely moved and dove for it and didn't come close. I happen to catch it and think man that should be an easy out, oh that was Machado's range that's why

remember who had the 2 out 2 rbi hit last inning?

darn, wonder is Saladino could've just ran to 2nd and had his momentum for the throw. This could hurt.

[sarcasm]stupid counsell used all our good relievers last night in game we lost anyway[/sarcasm]

Damn, I wasn't going to watch but with our playoff hopes on the line I better tune in. I could be mistaken in my interpretation, but my understanding of the post was that it's a must-win to avoid having this thread devolve into the typical madness that ensues with more than 1 loss in a row. Exactly. Just popped on for the first time, very surprised on the lack of negativity so far

Must win tonight. This thread will be very tough to read if they lose or are losing tonight...

Yea I'd do Phillips/Ortiz without much hesitation. Keep trying to hold onto Burnes if that's where it's at, maybe try adding a lower level guy if they need a bit more convincing. sure a low level guy could turn into Brantley or Freddy Peralta, but odds are lower...

Right, our key issue right now is offense and that's clear. Sometimes you have to give up in one area to get better in another. Your sacrificing some D for drastically better O. And that's what they need right now. If Cain/Yelich are healthy your OF D should still be considered fairly good.

I never said he was a generational talent but if we're speaking about players at certain positions he's absolutely a generational talent for 3b. My comment about his age was in response to you singling out last year's production and nit picking OBP/OPS comparing it to single seasons for Trout and Harper making Machado's production thus far, in general, seem insignificant when it's the opposite, especially for his age. Machado's 2015/2016 he posted OPS+ of 132 and 130 then dropped last year (still above avg) and now everything has clicked this year. Also, Harper's OPS+ over 3 of the past 5yrs is 111, 114, 125 (this year). And Machado is *significantly* better defensively (3b) than Harper (RF). Santana was bumped out of RF because Stearns wants to compete now and wants all-around players with good bat to ball skills. Defense and bat to ball skills have been issues for Santana. He has a very good eye and patience at the plate but his Ks tend to come from lack of bat to ball skills as opposed to swinging at garbage. But, yeah, I'm sure it was because his offensive numbers last year weren't good enough... Sorry I think you're missing the overall theme. Basically, if you go look at his stats you'll be very surprised how underwhelming they are for someone with his level of hype. Is he still very good, of course. But he hasn't lived up to the hype until this year and it's at the perfect time for him. in baseball, people can have hot two month stretches or they can improve it's now the norm, you just don't know yet on him. I wasn't nitpicking last year, it's his whole career until this year with last year being the worst example. I don't know how it's nitpicking to point out his last season was pretty bad. And to be hyped as this mega type star that shouldn't be happening. Look how much grief Harper is getting for the low BA this year even though his OBP is probably still upper 300s (haven't looked). And to compare to the other two guys who are pegged in the same mega prospect superstar category that people are trying to put Machado in is totally fair, that's my whole point that he's not in that level yet he's being talked about like he is. And the Santana example was merely an obvoius in home example that 270/330 with 30 HRs isn't some freakishly good player since we just tossed one aside last year with better numbers. I think it would be awesome if he has clicked this year and going forward he's a 950+ type OPS playing infield for the next 5-6 years, that's great for baseball. But I'm glad I'm not the one giving him 300-400 mil. Well I guess if I'm the GM of NY/LA it doesn't really matter for them. But if I was GM of any non mega market where that could cripple me then I wouldn't be. And again, for MKE's purposes this doesn't matter. Sure I'd be a tad worried he's gonna regress to the mean a bit but for 2-3 months it's worth the gamble if we don't get raided on prospects.

Agree, that's pretty much what I said on it yesterday as well. I hope they don't get ahead of themselves and try to lock him up this offseason when they don't really need to

Yup, for our purposes the stuff I'm pointing out is irrelevant other than in keeping the prospects given in perspective. Contract year stuff, being hot now or just in an outlier year for him, whether it's sustainable, etc. Yea who cares long term, we just need him to do it for 100 more games. I think I had a line like that in one of those posts.

Yea, still very good but not 'generational talent' level good and in the game of baseball it's tough to trust that a half season of stats is going to translate long term. In our situation, sure I'm all for him for the half year. But if I'm the one handing him 400 mil a year after he just put up a 310 OBP I'm probably a bit worried what's realistic going forward. For comp: Harper had a 1.1 OPS at age 22 and 1.0 at age 24. Trout: has never been below 939. And for a clearly really good player but not generational talent like Braun at 23-25 he had OPS of 1.0 .888 and .937. Machado though can play 3B which has value of course but again, this is his first time he's put it fully together offensively and it's only been a half season in his contract year. Maybe this is him going forward but it also wouldn't surprise me if he's a 270/330 guy with 30 HRs going forward. Again, still very good player but not something crazy ridiculous and worth 40 mil per year and a 300-400 mil commitment. I mean, we just kicked Santana's 280/370 30 HRs to the curb.

Machado is great, don't get me wrong here. But pump the brakes a tad, he has never hit like this season before in his career. Last year he hit 259/310 and has never had an obp obove .359 or an OPS above 876. For being able to play infield he's still great of course, but he's never really put the whole package together offensively until this year and it's being hurt by him insisting to play SS and doing terrible at it. Just trying to keep it in perspective a bit.

So what is a manager to do after the ASB break when all pitchers have had 4-6 days of rest? clearly they all are rusty and will just give up HRs like crazy.

Said this from the moment Knebel got the 'closer' role back. This team did so well managing the bullpen situationally in late innings when Knebel was out. Why they would go back to defined roles like that is baffling. 17 games over .500 is proof that the current bullpen usage is working. certainly is working but can always try to work better. I've hated traditional closer roles for years (the math just doesn't support it) and was hoping what we were doing without Knebel would lead to that philosophy going forward, like we kind of accidentally stumbled into it due to injury. That said, I do like the aspect that came from of it that rather than making Jeffress traditional closer (like would have been done in past years) that they've allowed him to keep being swiss army knife for when you need your best guy. So, since they're bought into not using their best reliever as traditional closer, then why have anyone designated like that role at all. especially one that hasn't quite been himself since he came back. Note that in this game it wouldn't have mattered, Knebel was your next guy up there no matter what so it's not just picking on Knebel for this. Just an overall baseball strategy discussion.

“In 2009, a report came out that David Ortiz's sample test from 2003 was one of more than 100 flagged to showing positive for a substance that is now banned. It wasn't banned at the time. “ 1st, he tested positive for a substance that at the time was allowed..... if you are going to make a case that a guy used PEDs to get good (doesn’t work that way, no substance is going to take you from okay to hall of famer.... way to much involved with hitting) you should talk about guys who tested positive for things NOT allowed! If you go to your check to see if you can take a supplement and it be fine & it is..... is that cheating? They add supplements and substances to banned list every year. Just because they decided to ban it 6 years later doesn’t mean he cheated. That is only time in his career he was flagged. He was often tested for 13 years after and never once had a positive test..... his teammate you mentioned failed tests. Not normal for a guy in his mid 30s to hit a wall and figure it out again? Disagree. You are claiming he started taking PEDs late in career .... every test missed it, and all of a sudden he was hitting for average again? Mind you.... you are talking about late 2000s & 2010s where mlb was on a witch hunt to find & punish anyone was touches PEDs. Btw his “awful season” he hit .240, .800 ops, 35 doubles, 28 hrs 99 rbis. That was 2009 and really his only “bad” season. Look at his numbers with Twins he was improving and showing growth. He was an .800 OPS prior to prime. No substance in the world will make you hit for average. It may add strength & power but isn’t going to improve contact or being a good overall hitter. If you don’t believe a 6’3 250 guy can naturally hit for power.... then Jesus must be on something. Remember he almost didn’t make team last year & this year it was in question. Yet all of a sudden he is MVP candidate. If Ortiz couldn’t have done it without PEDs.... how could Jesus? Also PEDs isn’t steroids..... you can go GNC right now, buy a diet pill, and test positive. All it takes is one ingredient. Prescription & over the counter are often flagged as drug policies have gotten stricter. Relax. I didn't say that Jesus is on PED because Papi was. Maybe his massive horrible stretch was only like a half season then and I remembered wrong, I don't wanna dig that deep. Again, I'm fine with these guys and that they did it. But you're arguing that what he failed for wasn't illegal at the time, well neither was anything Sosa/McGuire and Bonds were doing before they put in testing. If they did after the new rules, who knows but what they were doing in the late 90s wasn't against baseball rules yet they're all POS according to the public. And again, not failing a test doesn't prove anything. First when it started for him there wasn't testing and after it's been proving guys have been cheating tests. In this case the guy did fail one and then throw in all the circumstantial stuff and I know where I'd put my money. And your last point is one that I often make, this is all overblown as people have witch hunts and love to hate. I apologize for bringing it up but to me it's just pointing out the double standard he's receiving. Back to Jesus. Would have been perfect for him to drive in that run and get the media push from it tonight/tomorrow.

If there is anything to re-examine in the bullpen it's the Knebel in a traditional closer role. he has just been quite shaky, often behind in the count, too many walks. Still one of our top guys but we did so well without a tradition closer role use mentality that I'd be fine getting back to that. Consider them all same level and use based on circumstance and matchups. I'd have thought about setting up the double play at the end just like they did to us. But I guess Knebel doesn't seem to be a ground ball guy and that hitter sucks, so I think it's probably right to go for the strikeout.