MKE81

Not every Top 100 prospect who ends up having an impactful MLB career excels every step of the way in the minors. Guys are young for their level so their will be hiccups. Doesn't mean their tools are disappearing

I agree to a certain extent because we have a good pipeline of SPs at various levels already now after the trades, which is why I'm hoping the PTBNL is Mendez too (or Matuella - only because I like the deal in general to begin with so take a risk here with a top first round talent). But, if it's Mendez, you're adding him to a list of Hader, Ortiz, Bickford, Lopez, Ponce, Kodi, Woodruff, Perrin, Chang, Peralta, Diplan, Burnes, etc (some might end up in pen though). Having Santana up now with the system of Brinson, Phillips, Ray, Clark you have great high level talent in the OF with other players like Reed, Broxton as well so we're pretty deep there. Arcia is up now but also have rest of IF filling out at Diaz, Erceg, Nottingham as of now. Really don't have any legit catching prospects other than Nottingham and he most likely won't stick there. Can always find this spot through FA too but it's nice to have a prospect that can stick on the defensive side. Need more "top talent" depth at each of these IF positions and I'd focus on that while also continuing to add SPs as some of those could also be traded if we're deep enough there.

there was a list posted? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a post yesterday about 4 players names going to Stearns in order of priority. Those being Mendez, Guzman, Payano, Jurado

EDIT given new info regarding the not-PTBNL list. I'm still hoping it's Mendez but not sure if that's a stretch otherwise Jurado, Matuella, Garcia (if eligible). Like them all

2018 is very difficult to do. Based on the current list of players to choose from, I think you're looking at an OF of Braun, Brinson, Phillips. Santana, Broxton in mix too. IF could be Carter, Villar, Arcia, Perez with Cecchini (1b/3b), Rivera backing up. Susac starting catcher with Maldy backup. Rotation of Nelson, Hader, Davies, Lopez , Ortiz (possibly) or Chase. If Santana, Brinson, Phillips are all performing well then Braun is moved to 1b if still on team. 2019 I think you're looking at Braun, Brinson, Phillips with Santana and Ray in mix (see above regarding Braun). IF of Nottingham, Diaz, Arcia, Villar (will be traded before or during this year). Erceg maybe up at some point this year. Susac/Maldy. Rotation (in no specific order) a mix of Davies, Hader, Ortiz, Bickford, Mendez (if PTBNL), Lopez, Woodruff, Wang (F. Peralta a year away). Bullpen of Knebel, Barnes, Magnifico, Kodi, Ponce, Diplan, Kirby (possibly Houser/Nolin depending how they come back from injury). I think by the end of 2018 (and certainly by end of 2019) you're looking at Scooter, Carter, Thornburg, Guerra, Perez, Chase, Nelson, Villar being traded with some being traded by the end of next year.

Are the Brewers tweaking his swing or approach to draw more power out of him?

If you told me 3 days ago it's Brinson (Top 20) + PTBNL (as in a legit prospect such as Mendez or others ranked around him) for Lucroy I absolutely wouldn't be underwhelmed. I'd be ecstatic. We aren't talking about a Top 75-100. We're talking about a Top 20. There's a difference. And we'll most likely be getting a higher ranked prospect in their system so I wouldn't classify that as "change". But thanks for doing my thinking for me. And the vast majority of people on here had 3-4 Top 100 players coming back from CLE for Lucroy alone. Not 2. If it ends up being a Top 20 + Top 150 guy then great. If it ends up being Top 20 + Mendez (67) then outstanding. "According to reports" we were taken? What reports? And did those reports include the PTBNL because that person is also involved in this trade? Finally, you can doubt/criticize players all you want but don't tell anyone on this board your criticism had anything to do with their injury history or performance history because clearly that wasn't factored into your original comments. Your comments were a fat AA pitcher and a 240 AA hitter - insinuating we received nothing of value in return that will help us at the MLB level down the road

1 Orlando Arcia 2 Josh Hader 3 Lewis Brinson 4 Luis Ortiz 5 Brett Phillips 6 Phil Bickford 7 Isan Diaz 8 Trent Clark 9 Jorge Lopez 10 Jacob Nottingham 11 Cody Ponce 12 Lucas Erceg 13 Corey Ray 14 Jacob Barnes 15 Marcos Diplan 16 Brandon Woodruff 17 Kodi Medeiros 18 Freddy Peralta 19 Corbin Burnes 20 Keon Broxton 21 Nathan Kirby 22 Devin Williams 23 Gilbert Lara 24 Michael Reed 25 Wei-Chung Wang

Of course it seems we should have gotten more - when almost everyone offers unrealistic proposals and you see the actual return it's underwhelming. I said earlier this afternoon, based on Lucroy to CLE and Smith's trade, that if we're offering Lucroy/Jeffress we should net Gallo (because his name was in every rumor so assumed it was him instead of Brinson) + Mendoza or Ortiz + whoever else is added. I wasn't referring to 5 guys added. I was expecting 2. Which leads me to believe the 1 coming back will be a legit prospect. I thought that was realistic and a very good trade then and I still do - I think it could be a great trade depending on who the PTBNL is. Nobody should be critical of Stearns as of yet. He's literally done nothing to warrant any criticism in my opinion (some will disagree). Lucroy wasn't playing today because the deadline was this afternoon and other teams already gave offers the day before. So if one offer falls through then there's still interest from the other team's. Lucroy not traveling to SD has no barring on anyone's thoughts or strategy. Everyone knew he was on the trade block still because he was literally just traded 30hrs ago to CLE. Ortiz a fat pitcher with 4 ERA in AA. Feel free to disregard his 1.74 ERA in A (18/19yrs old and 3yrs young for level) and 2.6 ERA in A+ the first half of this season (20yrs old and 3yrs younger than competition). Or the fact he barely walks anyone with 8.3 K/9 rate. In 6 of his 9 starts at AA he's posting a 28ip, 26h, 8er, 7bb, 26K (2.57 ERA). He's pitching just fine and still learning/growing. As a 20yr old Brinson destroyed A ball. As a 21yr old he destroyed A+ then had a very solid AA then a brief AAA stint destroying it then posted a 300/408/983 line in AFL. Posted massive numbers across the board last year at several levels. This year he's injured, as everyone's said, which is affecting his performance. It doesn't change his tools. He's a legit defensive CF as well - this year he's still playing AA at almost 2yrs younger for the level.

Huh? This board makes me scratch my head all the time. Smith just netted the 65 overall prospect and a backup MLB C and you think Jeffress is going to net the 21 and 63 overall prospects? My goodness you guys need a reality check on the market

Excellent trade. If Rangers are saying a pitcher has to be in the deal to get Gallo then I'd assume Lucroy/Jeffress is easily hauling Gallo (15 overall), Mendez (ranked right behind Bickford) + however many others. I'm hoping Ortiz is in that as well somehow and he's ranked just ahead of Bickford and Mendez. Get this deal done with TX. Susac very good inclusion in this deal (2015 Top 100) as well. No way Bickford is rated higher than Hader either. Hader just dominated AFL then absolutely destroyed AA and is 1yr older than Bickford. He keeps top slot due to that fact and he's more advanced in the system already having great success at that upper level (AA) - half of his starts at AAA have been great too

Stearns passed up a 5 tool OFer and/or pitching so he could pick up a second catcher of the future? Yeah, ok.......... You don't get it. That's fine.

Nottingham could be moved to 1b since his bat would play there. Boomer saying we passed over Frazier/Zimmer for a catcher (Mejia) solely because Stearns made a mistake in acquiring Nottingham behind the plate is absurd. The players themselves are the one's who actually figure out who will play where, get traded, etc. Not the GM/coaches. It's figured out between the lines and the more quality you have at a specific position the better off you are, especially at C

Regarding Gallo, the only hesitation I've seen from people on here is his K rate. The past 3yrs he's ranged between 41-43% and this year he's at 37% in AAA so he's improved. Clearly that's still high. He's consistently been very young for his level and has always struggled moving up to the next level (outside of starting season at A+) in the 2nd half of a season. Then came back the next year and performed much better at that level. If given 500AB at AAA this year he's on pace for 39HR. At 22 he's still very young for that level as well, similar to Arcia. They'll both only get better as they mature and gain experience because the skill set is there. If Gallo is a 250/350 hitter with 40HR+ playing either corner spot you'll take it and won't question it (I do think he ends up at 1b and will be just fine defensively there). If this is a "blockbuster" trade and Stearns is still shopping guys individually then I'd assume it's because he's fine accepting that trade but thinks he might still be able to pull off a better deal in his mind for Lucroy alone (or packaged with 1 reliever). If there's a big haul going to TX I'd hope Gallo, Mendez are 2 players for sure coming back

I'll take Gallo in a second from TX. He's 22 and 4yrs younger than his completion. His production increased greatly at AAA between last year and this. Just like it did at AA between 20 and 21yrs old. He'll only continue to grow. Like Brinson too. Need to load up on other high ceiling guys as well including several SPs. If Ortiz or Mendez are involved that's great. If both are involved that's incredible and 3 current Top 100 players. Best part is Lucroy can't block it

If Mejia is the headliner then the other players will be ranked lower. McKenzie, Hillman, etc all ranked below Mejia. For Lucroy alone I'd absolutely take a package of Mejia, McKenzie, Hillman. It's absurd to believe that Lucroy automatically returns your "best prospect". Maybe straight up but there won't be others involved unless it's a low level lottery ticket. Mejia was already a Top 90 and is back on track killing it this year, McKenzie will absolutely be a Top 100 and Hillman (or 2 low level high ceiling guys) will have strong potential to move through system. This board also has extremely serious conversations about having Villar benched to start he season. You let the Chapman trade affect what's realistic. If Lucroy (by himself) is worth what you're all saying then that would be offered. There's a reason it's not. Also, EVERY team plays their players until a verbal agreement is made then they're out of the lineup. Now, it might take 24hrs to finalize language or one player but the other players pulled are already guaranteed part of the deal hence removed from lineup. You can disagree all you want but it doesn't hangs the fact 2+2=4

I understand why people don't want Lucroy in the lineup but unless you're about to agree there's no reason to not play him. He's getting paid to play and he's in the lineup UNTIL a deal is agreed up (even if some loose ends need to be tightened). Otherwise, by that logic, he shouldn't have been in the lineup the past month.

I personally want nothing to do with the Mets. Land a few of the Indians prospects including at least 1 legit arm and call it a day

There are 3 guys in our rotation that are performing just as well if not better than Bauer, who has been extremely average at very best prior to this season and he's still not killing it. There's no way I'd want Bauer in return

I had to look up Greg Allen. Seems to be a nice player and is basically playing at every level thus far near his age level but given the other talents in the Indians system (Bradley, Mejia, McKenzie, Hillman, etc) combined with us already having Ray, Clark playing A/A+ while being 2-4yrs younger I just don't see why we'd target a player like Allen. I do agree we should add a 3rd player (prospect) in order to net 5 guys, if we need too

I know others have said it's wishful thinking to get a Top 10-15 for Lucroy but there are just too many variables with every player and team involved that affects their ability to make or not make a trade. Personally, I would rather have a Zimmer/Frazier type (who are ranked right around Gleyber Torres but are 2-3yrs older and have had success at the upper levels in the minors already), + Bradley, Mejia, McKenzie, Hillman return vs cutting the quantity short just to move up for a prospect ranked 15 spots higher overall. I'll take 4-5 Top 100 talents with the best currently ranked Top 30 area. I do think they should add a prospect to the package as well IF it's going to be Lucroy/Smith and make sure they get all these dudes in return. Need 4 guys for sure and I hope it's not Aiken, Sheffield or Clevinger

I don't think anybody is selling his skill set/control short. The Cubs trading away a top prospect isn't a logical comparison for Lucroy as there are many variables in play that result in them losing their top prospect without affecting their ability to compete for a WS now and over the next 5yrs. That info matters.

The Yankees got Torres, MLB.com's #26 prospect, for half a season of Chapman. The Royals are asking for Giolito for Wade Davis. At this point, I wouldn't say a definitive "not happening" to any prospects being traded for good MLB talent. Prospects are not as highly regarded in today's market as they were a few seasons ago. I understand what you're saying but the Cubs can afford to give up Torres for Chapman given their current young talent everywhere in the field in combination with their still good system. The Indians will have to replace half their position players within the next couple years.

That's called Negotiating 101, probably taught first day of GM class. I never believe any of that stuff. Yea, we all know a team doesn't want to give up their top prospect. But for the right deal anyone is available. Correct. The lingo is "untouchable" but that's never taken literally

Also have to factor in their age vs level they're competing. Phillips was relatively solid between April/May and has struggled since. He also has a 268/375/960 line with 2 outs and RISP. Arcia is 21 in AAA. That's very young. He's excellent on defense and really has only struggled in June. He's also 323/408/876 with 2 outs and RISP. Diaz is 20 at A and took 2 months to figure it out at this level but has absolutely been killing it in June/July and if he continues that pace he could crack the Top 100 overall. Not many 2b prospects (he will be a 2b) put up these kinds of numbers, which is awesome to see. 317/397/914 with 2 outs and RISP as well. Nottingham is 21 at AA. He's had very strong May/June and struggled in April/July but he's 3.5yrs younger than the avg player at that level. Lara is 18 so nobody should read into anything right now. Lopez is getting rocked at AAA but he's also 3.5yrs younger than avg player at that level. And Hader is a year younger than Lopez. Hader has 3 bad starts at AAA and the other 4 he's at 23ip, 14h, 6er, 11bb, 29k (2.35 era) - he's flashing signs of being dominant and with more experience at that level he'll be more consistent. Same with Lopez given the development of his pitches beginning last year. I won't read anything into that given the issues with CO. Taylor/Coulter, for me, I'm not shocked to see their performances because I've seen them in person taking extended fielding/hitting and never understood the hype for them. Just didn't see it. But that's just me. Houser I've always wanted in the pen immediately as that's what gets him to the MLB level plus he has multiple pitches. Kodi I can easily see in the pen long-term and that's where I like him but Kodi is 20 at A+. His ERA might not reflect it but he did a lot of good things in A last year. And this year he had a brutal April but has posted a 3.81 ERA the past 3 months (11 starts) so he's been figuring it out and piecing together some nice outings and will continue to grow as he has the tools. The overall numbers don't look outstanding for any of these dudes but they're all much younger for the competition levels and have the tools to grow and succeed.