MKE81

There's risk associated with every person and given the payroll, length of contract, competitiveness of the team in 2017/2018, potential upside and trade return for the Brewers it makes sense to target him. If he doesn't pan out the only negative is the money, but that's part of the risk and quite frankly it's meaningless given the payroll

Vast majority of publications grade him as a 4th OF. I think he's definitely underrated and becomes a solid starting OF. The Brewers don't need him to move to 1b as he has a starting OF spot locked up in AAA and Thames was signed for 3yrs. Cooper can develop at 1b in AAA. It never hurts to have Cordel learn 1b and fill in on occasion to increase his versatility but he's an OF at the end of the day who does everything average or better.

Not surprised one bit by Steamer projecting 272/350/865 (29HR) given i said I thought his "floor" is 260/340/810 (i was essentially called delusional). Not sure what Thames final numbers will be but he will be better than Carter in every aspect except power but he's no slouch there either. i won't be shocked if Thames posts better numbers than Steamers projection. I put Thames and Shaw in the same category for being better players than the general consensus of this board says they are.

Except you're going to break up the two LH bats in Thames and Shaw... Good point. Flip either Thames and Santana or Shaw and Susac. Or both. I could see Counsell flipping Villar and Broxton given the majority of games will be vs RHP. That way it's a R/L/R/L/R/L/R/R lineup. If both stay healthy they're stealing 50 each. Easy to manufacture a run if Broxton gets on, steals 2b then a lefty Villar advances him if he doesn't get a hit. Either way I'm a fan of the Brewers starting lineup this year - should be fun to watch

Agree. I don't even think he should be on the team at all but unfortunately he is the 4th at this point since he plays all 3 spots pretty solidly and has some pop in his bat from the left side. The good news is this should probably be his last year with Braun, Broxton, Santana, Brinson, Cordell in 2018 (if nobody is traded)

MLB Trade Rumors said the Dodgers were offering De Leon straight up for Dozier but Twins want more. It must be true because it's on MLB Trade Rumors and because it's true what does that say about Braun and his contract/age/injuries/PED if he was bringing back a proven AS talent (Puig) + 2 intriguing prospects (because Stearns wouldn't settle for less) while Dozier solely brings De Leon (granted he's a Top 40)??? Just tossing this out here because we all know MLB Trade Rumors only posts facts and not Rumors by unknown sources

Briggs, but it is an outrageous deal. The proposed trade wasn't Perez + 1-2 it was strictly Perez. Nobody is undervaluing Perez as his skill set and control-ability can be huge assets on playoff caliber teams. However, trading away a potential above average starting catcher who's a switch hitter and a lefty arm that will contribute in some capacity (both ex-Top 50 with 5yrs control) shouldn't be had for 4yrs of a super utility. Brewers won't compete for a playoff spot until 2019 most likely but can make some noise in 2018. Perez will be traded by then. Arcia, Villar, Diaz, Dubon all have higher ceilings. While Perez is more versatile than them all when you factor in the OF depth in the system it makes that versatility irrelevant. If the Brewers are offered anything remotely close to that nonsensical trade they have to jump on it even though it sets back our IF depth for the next 1-2yrs (we'll be fine for OF depth in the meantime).

I don't think anybody is saying "give Scooter away". He's a halfway decent starting 2b so there is value in that but there's nowhere for him to contribute regularly this year or moving forward unless Arcia or Shaw are injured and they decide to shift Villar while keeping Perez in his utility role. And no, his arm isn't good enough for LF. His arm is average for 2b, below average for 3b, which then means its below-below average for LF as you need extra carry on the throws. Guys like Braun and Perez can transition to the OF because they're better athletes and have legitimate arms from the left side of the IF (same with Weeks except his fielding wasn't good enough for the left side of the IF). So while he's a decent athlete there's absolutely nothing that screams he can potentially make LF work. 3b is the most viable option and his arm is below average there. And yes, I'll take Scooter's bat over Kirk every day but last I checked defense matters. And when suggesting the primary backup OF be Perez and Scooter with Reed or Wren filling in here and there - I look the other way. It's not logical. Kirk can play all 3 spots and play them just fine while having the arm as well. He also gets on base just as much/slightly more than Scooter has the past 3yrs. But again, defense matters. Both Scooter and Kirk won't be on the team heading into 2018 anyway with Brinson, Cordell, Reed + Braun, Broxton, Santana. Has anybody heard the Brewers make a comment regarding Scooter increasing his versatility by adding an OF glove to his bag?

Scooter is either traded for a low level minor leaguer for org depth, a lottery ticket or as a 2nd/3rd piece. He doesn't have the arm to play 3b but you could get by in a pinch occasionally as he is pretty decent at fielding the ball at/near him and should have more range than your avg 3b. Other than that he can't play anywhere else. His arm can't even play in LF and there's no way I put him out there over a backup OF to begin with (i.e. Kirk, Reed). His best shot at versatility is 2b/3b but he isn't playing over Perez at either of those spots so he can't get work in other than ST unless there's an injury. He needs to be traded at some point as he's not part of the future. Weeks is different as his arm was much stronger and he had much better quickness/speed - better athlete. The pen needs to be rounded out and the rotation needs to be cut down. Need to finalize the 13th position player too if they go that route as maybe they decide against a 5th OF if everyone is healthy coming out of ST (Perez can be that 5th too). Given the versatility of position players it might make more sense to go with 13 arms, especially if we have 6 SPs then one can work out of the pen until an injury or trade

C - Susac 1b - Thames 2b - Villar SS - Arcia 3b - Shaw LF - Braun CF - Broxton RF - Santana Bench - Pina, Perez, Scooter, Kirk SP - Guerra, Garza, Nelson, Davies, Peralta RP - Chase, Barbosa, Milone, Magnifico, Marinez, Torres, Knebel, Barnes I think there's definitely going to be 3+ moves still that will change some things, mainly in the rotation and pen. I think Scooter is traded too but they want a versatile lefty backup IF (i.e. Sogard type, not necessarily him but maybe) who can draw a walk, steal a base, play good enough defense at several spots)

I would never attempt to put Suter in the rotation or as a closer. His 12ip in relief in the 5-6th innings is a small sample size and far cry from the closer role, especially when factoring in his 83-85 fastball. I'm all for Suter being given a shot in that same reliever role as last year as I think he can be effective. That's where he'd earn his keep. Briggs, Thornburg was great and even better vs Cubs/STL, but that still doesn't negate the fact he blew 8 out of 21 saves. If he was still a Brewer I'd expect him to regress. Barnes, Knebel, Torres, Marinez should all be holding down spots leaving 3 open. I'd assume Magnifico takes one and Stearns adds a vet. The bullpen won't be as good overall but they'll still be good - we've had a pretty good pen for a while now with moving parts every year. Thames is going to surprise people and I think Shaw will too. FanGraphs having Broxton all over the place makes sense given they bury their heads in their models instead of watching him play and factoring in other variables last year - being his first season in MLB he was clearly pressing, being too tentative at the plate putting himself in deep holes every AB. By the time he came back up in the 2nd half he was much more confident - relaxed yet aggressive at the plate. Dropping his hands played a role in his success but models don't account for anything I just listed. The player Broxton will be is much closer to his 2nd half than 1st. 500+ AB of Braun/Broxton/Santana will be important.

Greatly appreciate the time and effort retrieving and listing the data. My eyes always said he was solid at best so never understood the negative ratings. I can see average metrics as there are issues with perfecting it but below average doesn't make sense to me.

Since Encarnacion is a year older, and he got this money for three years, I would bet Braun, as a free agent, would get similar dollars, for four years - I don't see a reason why he wouldn't. The thing is, if you go to trade a guy who's signed for at or near what the market is paying - the prospects you get back are a premium for the other team - the talent they give up is above and beyond the money the player is worth .... and then they'll pay him the money too. To get the kind of talent you'd want in the deal, I think the Brewers already knew they'd have to take back some money in the trade - if the rumors concerning LA were true, Milwaukee had already acknowledged that by agreeing to take back Brandon McCarthy. The market for power bats has been slow this winter - Encarnacion sitting as long as he did was Exhibit A. "They" are talking about a glut of power hitters, and a glut of available outfielders. Everyone jumped on bullpen guys again, the White Sox sold big twice, the Dodgers paid big to keep what they already had - and really not a lot more until this deal for Encarnacion. The Brewers aren't going to give Braun away, if the market doesn't go their way this winter, then we'll watch Ryan Braun play some more baseball. Agreed. Teams tried to acquire Lucroy for below value and Stearns wouldn't allow that to happen. Same applies to Braun. Stearns understands what they're worth at a realistic level, not wishful thinking and won't part with him until that's on the table

So defensive metrics list Braun as a negative defender. Does anybody, using their eyeballs watching Braun play LF, believe Braun is a below average (negative) defender? His first step, read/route, quickness/speed, arm strength, accuracy, intelligence, keeping runners at bay, effort, etc. Do people actually see a below average LF defender?

I can't be the only person that's seen Clark play this year and think his arm doesn't come close to profiling as a RF? Coulter (60) also doesn't have the strongest arm in the OF it's Phillips (70). Interesting take on Cordell as 1b of future. He's versatile enough - would be interesting if that happens.

Agree with And That. Phillips didn't have a terrible year but no doubt it was a down year. Yes he needs to make some tweaks to his swing and get back to being consistent but there are 5 tools and he's above average to plus-plus in speed, defense, arm and none of those were knocked this year. In the entire 10 team league he finished 3rd in BB (1st in K), 4th in triples and HR, 10th in SLG and OPS, 14th in total bases and runs, 19th in OPB, 35th in BA. He was still just over 2yrs young for the level too. For comparison purposes, Ian Happ is 2.5 months younger than Phillips and in the same league this year. Phillips (441 AB) 229/332/725, 14 doubles, 6 triples, 16HR, 62rbi, 12SB Happ (248 AB) 262/318/733, 14 doubles, 0 triples, 8HR, 31rbi, 6SB BA report in mid-Oct lists Top 20 players in each league and they preface it by saying, just like org rankings, these are based on potential rather than performance. Like I've said, I don't get how Phillips is out of the Top 10/100 and Happ will most likely remain their Top Prospect based on that. Finally, I think I've said this before but Phillips also had one bad month. "bad" probably isn't even applicable because it was that bad. Outside of July he slashed 253/351/802, 13 doubles, 5 triples, 15HR, 59rbi, 9SB in 344 AB

The difference is Taylor and Coulter don't come close to having the overall skill set and potential Phillips does though. The Brewers have tweaked with his swing for some odd reason given he had excellent years in 2014 and 2015. He was still hitting 15HR not sure why they want to mess around with him in order to tap into more power when he was great spraying it everywhere. He still had an excellent 13% walk rate this year and hit for more power (based on plate appearances) than the previous 2yrs but along with that comes a higher K rate and worse contact numbers. Defensively he's just as good as anyone in the system in the OF (except maybe Brinson and his potential) and has the best arm of any OF. Just don't understand the heavy knock on him to the point he's outside the Top 10 and Top 100.

Yes, it's a fact that if not for Selig there would be no baseball in Milwaukee. It was 1970 or bust forever. Selig was in office, as Acting and Commissioner, when PEDs were illegal and used by an insane amount of players. Of course the unions were going to fight random testing. It taking until 2002 or 2003 to get something finalized wasn't because the unions kept saying no. Selig didn't care because it was never a significant issue until Balco and the subsequent outcry. It wasn't until 2004 when it was public that Selig might fight the unions for a harsher testing. Did he take office in 2004? Selig said publicly that he never heard of PEDs until 1998/1999 then a year later testified in front of congress that he was responsible for figuring out PEDs were being used in 1994 and by 1998 he had a plan put together for testing. But you keep on believing whatever fairy tale story makes you sleep well at night. As you said, which is accurate, PEDs are why baseball came back to the forefront in a major way, not because of his financial acumen, Wild Card, Inter-League. And MLB teams would have had new stadiums if someone else was Commissioner - it's not as if everything would have stayed the same but the NFL, NBA would build massive new structures leaving baseball behind. So you list 2 things he's done in 24yrs and call him amazing? The WS home field advantage applied to the AS Game winner was down right atrocious. How about playoffs in early-mid Nov that nobody likes (ask the players/coaches) just so MLB can make an extra dollar? He's notorious for treating teams differently in several aspects, including stadiums. Buster Posey rule, which is absurd. 2nd Wild Card spot is just brutal (hey guys, i realize that you finished 4 games ahead of the 2nd wild card team but i'm going to have you play each other in a 1 game winner take all to move forward because i don't think the previous 162 games was good enough). AND he was a terrible owner along with his daughter.

Blown saves can be deceiving for sure. At the end of the day it's still a blown save though. We were in position to win that game (some we did some we didn't). I think anyone who covers the 7th-8th inning consistently shouldn't have an issue with the occasional close. I wouldn't have Knebel close. Barnes or a new veteran

People thinking the Brewers will be worse as a result of no Lucroy, Thornburg, Jeffress, Smith, Carter (HR champ) is logical. It makes sense on the surface but there are a lot of factors I look at when thinking they'll be better. The rotation as a unit should be better than last year. Going from a defensive IF of Hill/Perez, Villar, Scooter, Carter to Shaw, Arcia, Villar, Thames is an upgrade at every single position (the right side of the IF is a huge upgrade). Defense matters greatly and it gets overlooked far too often. Anyone we put behind the dish is a downgrade from Lucroy. However, the Brewers weren't terrible after he was traded and Maldy is below average as a starter (would be terrible if his arm/framing weren't so good). Susac should win that starting job and if he's anything remotely close to what he's done in the minors you'll get a good offensive catcher and an avg defensive one with Bandy being better defensively, supposedly, of the two. Braun is Braun. I'm expecting Broxton and Santana to be solid players - 800+ OPS offensively while having good on base numbers. They're talented and have flashed what their potential is. Our #4-6 OF received almost half the OF ABs last year. That's not good. The pen takes a step back as Jeffress/Thornburg were great. Smith was replaceable with his first half last year. He wasn't his typical self. Barnes will play a much more significant role as will Knebel. Both are young and have a lot of potential to be very, very good. There should be 5 guys back in the pen so mixing in a couple other strong shouldn't be an issue. Lets not forget that Thornburg blew 8 of 21 save opportunities. if this pen closes that gap there's additional Ws. The young guys got some good PT last year and that experience will only help moving forward.

Phillips is a better prospect than Clark at this point. They were both 2-2.5yrs young for level and Phillips outperformed him almost across the board while being a better defender and having a cannon. Somehow Clark drops 3 spots from last year and Phillips drops 8+ and out of the Top 10. Phillips also had excellent 2014/2015 seasons spanning through a half season at AA. Phillips and Dubon over Erceg and Diplan. I like Erceg and Diplan a lot but I don't think at this point they should be rated higher than Phillips and Dubon, both whom have had success at the AA level while still being a similar age to Erceg. Diplan was outstanding in A at 19 but I think he should come in at 11 just because of the talent and depth and because he hasn't had success above A yet. Not sure why I expected what I think considering this list last year at this time had Taylor/Coulter at 7-8 while keeping Hader and Davies outside the Top 10. Both who had great success at the AA level or higher while being around the same age.

How can you be a brewer fan and despise Bud Selig? Doesn't make any sense. The irony of it is that if it were not for Bud Selig, this website would not exist. Speaking on behalf of brewcrewdude, he takes it all back then since if it weren't for Selig this site wouldn't exist. Selig is terrible. Has nothing to do with being a Brewers fan or not has everything to do with reality. He's awful and so was his daughter then he continued to be awful as Commissioner (you remember - the guy who turned a blind eye on an insane amount of players taking PEDs just to make the game popular again. Then once all the fans came back he slapped everyone across the face and cracked down on PEDs like no other, all while pretending he had no idea this was a problem to begin with and that Brady Anderson really was that good while jacking 50). That's just one example.

If you think that's a fair trade then you're out of your mind. Regarding everything none of us understand regarding Braun, lets discuss quickly. 4yrs 76M (80M with buyout or 5th year option). This is a good price in today's market, and the future, for a player of his talent. His contract ends when he's 36 unless it's picked up the final year. Players of Braun's ability don't fall off a cliff at age 35-36. Even if he drops to 280/345/840 his final year or so he's still better than A LOT of other OFs and his contract in 3-4yrs will still be a bargain. Injuries. He's had the same injuries forever - slightly nagging that cause him to miss a few games here and there and usually one DL stint. He had 2 surgeries over the past few years and neither have affected him since. He's still had 506+ AB his entire career (outside of 2013 - suspension) and the past 3yrs he's played in 83%+ of games. He's coming off an AS 2015 and great/even better 2016. Explain to me where these injuries show him trending downward? He's not a pitcher. Pitchers who have had arm issues carry more risk given throwing a ball is one of the, if not the, most violent and strenuous acts one can do with their arm (general speaking, not just baseball related). Braun is arguably a Top 10 MLB OF present day based on performance and showing no signs of slowing down. A team gets Braun for 4yrs. That's called control and there's value in that. You act like he's 36 now still with 4yrs/100M on contract while also missing 50 games annually. The supposed trade in Sept was returning a 26yr old Puig (proven AS talent), McCarthy (proven MLB pitcher) + 2 good prospects but you somehow think a fair deal includes 0 established MLB players + 2 prospects - one being a Top 90 2b who can't field with a below average arm and speed and the other being a 21yr old catcher who was unimpressive in A/A+ in 50 games this year as a first year pro with a scouting report of strong defense/arm with zero power and potentially an average hit tool (more OBP than actual hit) while still being 4yrs away from MLB level. Yeah, ok, if you say so. Notice how you conveniently forgot to list the most important part of trading Braun? HIS NO TRADE CLAUSE combined with his affinity for the Brewers org and this city. Only 5-6 teams are options without his approval. The teams he's ok going to will no doubt try to use that as leverage given the current state of the Brewers org (ie dumping high performing vets or players who will block other prospects and receive young, controllable talent). "Hey Stearns, if you want Braun off your team and young talent for him then this is what we're offering otherwise you're stuck with him for 4yrs." That's absolutely a part of, even if a smaller part. Braun shrunk his own market and earned the right to do so. Finally, pick a date/place next season and we'll watch a game together because I will guarantee that you'll be watching a different game than I will. You have no idea how to evaluate talent or analyze one's skill set with your eyes - scouting plays a significant role in all trades. It's why you reference WAR for anything and everything. All I have to do is cite our quick conversation regarding Brett Phillips leg kick, which you clearly displayed your lack of knowledge on the purpose of a leg kick. It literally almost doesn't get any simpler than that. All you do is read "rumors" and WAR lines then recite as if it's fact somehow "proving you're correct". I/We don't understand Braun's situation? Please

We'd be extremely fortunate to land that offer

Braun for Calhoun, Smith was the suggested "fair trade"? I'd love to know the reasoning behind that. Stearns would laugh at that and Braun would be a Brewer still. Look, I've included Calhoun and/or Smith in trade proposals I've had but they were the 3rd-5th pieces depending on a proposal. If it's Calhoun, Smith it would need to start with Bellinger or De Leon.