paul253

The offense, by OPS, has been slightly above league average in 2013. The offense, though, has essentially been without their #3, #4, and #5 hitters this season. If you can remove the entire middle of the order and still come out above average offensively then I think the offense is ok. The Brewers have a solid core of position players that will be here for years to come, players that have already had success. Braun, Segura, Lucroy, and Gomez will all likely be here for at least three more years. What is the rotation going to look like in three years? Heck what is the rotation going to look like next season? We have options, most notably Peralta, Nelson, Thornburg and Hellweg but other than maybe Peralta none of them have had success yet. And none of them really profile as top of the rotation starters. I'm not saying definitely take a pitcher. There's a chance that we don't even end up with a top 10 pick. It would just be nice to get something we haven't had in years. I swear though, if we take a position player and it ends up being an outfielder I will stop following this team.

If you want to do a good analysis yes. Provided there are enough concentrated PA to make a good determination of a players estimated value. I understand you don't want to concede the point but please, please do not suggest Adam Dunn is a better hitter than 8 time NL batting champion Tony Gwynn or two time AL batting champion Ichiro. That's the point people are making here with batting average No, the point at least two people are making is that batting average is almost worthless. I completely disagree, at least when looking at how good of a hitter is. I realize people value different things, but I don't understand why, in this context, hitting a home run is so much more important than how often you actually get a hit.

I think you are starting at the bottom of the list of good stats to judge a hitter on. Way at the bottom So how often someone gets a hit is way at the bottom of how to judge someone's hitting ability? Ok. So the two things you want a hitter to be good at? I am just curious but who do you consider to be a better hitter. Adam Dunn or Tony Gwynn? Dunn has the higher career OPS so obviously it must be him, even though his career BA is 99 points lower than Gwynn's. Adam Dunn is a better hitter than Ichiro too, I guess (the same Ichiro who had over 200 hits 10 seasons in a row).

That is a huge assumption and probably wrong. The relievers that did move were all having great years. The interest in Axford was next to nil. Cubs couldn't move Kevin Gregg either. Think he's in their long term plans? I don't think it's wrong at all. I think that almost anything would have been a good return for Axford because they is no way we go to arbitration with him when the season is done. In the months leading up to deadline he was pitching pretty well, lowering his ERA from 10.32 on May 1st to 3.38 a week before the deadline . It is just my opinion obviously but I think, like Lohse, Melvin was asking for too much in return and other team's were turned off by his demands. I think he waited too long and when Axford started to struggle right before the deadlines what interest teams may have had went away.

So yes, he was a good hitter. He has never been a good overall hitter. He is good in certain areas (most notably getting on base and power) but that's about it. He can't hit for average. He strikes out a ton. He's not a situational hitter either. If the Brewers were down by a run in bottom of the 9th with guys on second and third and two out, I could think of at least six other Brewer's players I'd rather see up than Weeks (Aoki, Ramirez, Braun, Gomez, Lucroy, Segura). It's like that every year with him. Also, I don't know much about this wRC+ statistic but second base, along with catcher, may be one of the two the least offensive-minded positions. Ranking high amongst second basemen doesn't necessarily mean he's a good hitter. I'd be willing to guess that even though he ranks high amongst second basemen he ranks relatively low compared to all players.

I agree with this point 100%. I'm not sure why people are so hell-bent on the Brewers drafting a pitcher with their early pick. It's not like the Brewers system has a can't-miss position prospect in their system, and as this season has proved, the offense can go sour pretty quick without a handful of impact hitters to turn to. I can answer that: 1) Because while the draft is far from certain, players drafted near the top still tend to be more successful. 2) The Brewers need an ace, someone who profiles as a #1. They are not going to find that with a pick in the 30's. Maybe someone they pick could eventually develop into that ace but the chances of finding one are much better with a top 5 pick 3) The Brewers have been much, much better at developing hitting so I'd rather take my chances getting a decent hitter later in the draft than a decent pitcher 4) Despite the fact that their #5 hitter hasn't played one game this year, their #4 hitter has missed more games than he's played, and their #3 hitter has been suspended for the year their offense is not that bad. They are 4th in home runs, 5th in slugging %, 7th in batting average, and 4th in total bases. They also lead the league in stolen bases. The offense isn't the problem, and it hasn't been the problem for a long time. They do still need to get more high ceiling bats in the system, but it's not the same level of problem as the lack of pitching is, at least not right now. Plus, if need be, free agent hitters are usually cheaper and more plentiful than free agent pitchers. I don't think anyone is saying draft pitching no matter what. With the 4th or 5th pick you should get a good player no matter what. I kind of view this the same as I view drafting a position of need. If you need a 3rd basemen you don't necessarily just pick the best 3rd basemen available. But if the best 3rd basemen available is comparable to the best overall player available, why not take the 3rd basemen? In this case, clearly you need pitching. So if the best hitter available is not light years ahead of the best pitcher available, why not take the pitcher?

I have a theory about Weeks that nobody ever seems to consider. He was never a good hitter to begin with. Even before his last two terrible seasons he was only a career .255 hitter. His ability to get on base masks how bad a hitter he actually is. As if often the case in sports, he was given his contract based on two good years, not his career numbers. While I didn't expect his BA to be this low, I would have been just as surprised to see him hit .320. The Brewers are stuck with him. All they can do is make sure he doesn't hit that vesting option.

I must have missed the article or interview where Melvin stated that Gomez was untouchable. Perhaps I exaggerated a bit by using "untouchable", though Melvin, to me at least, made it clear Gomez wasn't going anywhere. His name was never even mentioned in trade rumors. Plus, how many real GM'S out there state in public that one of their better players is up for sale, especially one who recently just signed a multi-year deal? Real GM's do it all the time, especially around the trade deadline. You can't tell me you've never heard a GM saying that a certain player is available. People have this idea that every time Melvin says something in public it's just a rouse or some sneaky way of driving up a player's value. Sometimes he says things because actually means it. I think you and I agree on a lot when it comes to Gomez. He's having a wonderful season and if traded should fetch a very good return. I think where the difference lies is that you are in that mindset where if we keep him we keep him whereas my mindset is if the Brewers are actually serious about obtaining the kind of pitching they need they should willing, if not outright looking, to move him. On top of the fact that good offense and bad pitching has equaled bad Brewer's teams for at least a decade, Melvin also has a bit of history of blowing chances to trade guys when their value is high. I have very little confidence that this team will compete next season if the same ole guys and the same ole rotation are thrown out there.

Boy it's a good thing we hung onto Axford instead of trading him a few weeks before the deadline when teams were actually interested in him.

I agree with Logan. Melvin should be on the line shopping Gomez for pitching, not sitting on the sidelines waiting to be blown away with an offer. As I mentioned before Melvin has more or less called Gomez untouchable. So why would teams come calling and making offers for him? Would you call and make an offer for Andrew McCutchen? Or Derek Jeter? Or Justin Verlander? Of course not because there is no way those guys are going to be traded. If you are willing to trade Gomez then don't imply otherwise. Of course this discussion is moot. We all know darn well that Melvin won't shop Gomez until after the 2015 season when he has one year left on his contract.

I just hope we can come away with a high ceiling college pitcher who profiles as a #1. That's something this organization has lacked for a long time.

Paul, i'm not trying to be a jerk in saying this, but it's stating the extreme obvious that the Brewers clearly need better starting pitching and especially some quality young starters who are cheap. I'm not talking about the need for pitching. I'm talking about how exactly we are going to obtain that pitching. It may be stating the extreme obvious but it still seems like there are a lot of people who aren't willing to do what it takes to get that pitching. Melvin has basically said Carlos Gomez was untouchable. Well who else is going to get you the pitching that you need so badly? The only options would be Lucroy, Segura, and Braun, which I brought up. Or we could just continue to rely on the draft, because that has turned out so well. Melvin seems to me to be the kind of guy who is very, very loyal to his own players, sometimes to a fault. Carlos Gomez is a good player and he's having a great season. He is exactly the kind of player you are going to have to move if you want that top 25 caliber pitching prospect that is obviously what we need. I said that i'd be willing to trade Carlos if i was GM, but you seem to be hell bent on seeing him be traded even if the offer is mediocre to poor overall value, so long as it's pitching I guess that my assumption that Gomez should be able to return at least one top pitching prospect has led to me to not be specific enough about what I'd ask in return. Yes, we would have to get a top prospect in return, not just any ole pitching. Regardless of what you think of Melvin, he didn't rise to the level of being a longtime GM and not be able to see quality young pitching is a weakness in the organization. And regardless of what you think of Melvin his track record of trading for/signing/developing young high ceiling pitchers is absolutely terrible. I guess I don't have the same faith in him acquiring this pitching that you do because nothing he has done in his career in Milwaukee has suggested he has the ability to do so. I don't have faith that if someone comes calling and asking for Gomez he would be willing to accept a reasonable offer without demanding way too much in return and winding up with no deal at all. Gindl could play CF, but as an everyday guy, both would be well below average defensively. My assumptions were just based on the fact that Aoki was signed as a CF and Gindl has played 175 games in CF in the minors. I know there'd be a big dropoff defensively but they both have the experience to play it if need be. If Gomez is moved, Schafer would obviously get the first shot to replace him. Who exactly are all of these people that you're talking about who can't see pitching is badly needed? Anyone who thinks that all we need to do is "get healthy" and we'll be able to compete for a playoff spot next season. So for me anything less than at least one elite pitching prospect along with maybe another piece or two should be what Melvin held out for if Gomez were to be traded this offseason. I'm not sure I'd require "elite", (I think of top 15-20 prospect in all of baseball elite) but yes definitely high ceiling players. If I could get two pitchers with #2 potential I'd take it, even if one is a few years out.

"He's got more experience than Donnie..." Ding ding ding. We have an answer!

Gomez is definitely an improved player this season. I'm still in the "wait to see if he keeps it up" camp but yes, any trade for him should net a very good return. That being said, to me it is clear as day that this team lives and dies with pitching. Since 2000 (the furthest ESPN's stats went back) the Brewers have only finished in the top half of the NL in team ERA three times. They made the playoffs two of those three years and finished .500 the other year. They have failed to develop a successful starting pitcher outside of Gallardo in all those years as well, and are unable to afford front of the rotation starting pitchers in free agency. This leads me to a fairly logical group of statements: 1) The Brewers need good pitching to compete 2) The Brewers cannot develop their own successful pitchers 3) The Brewers cannot afford top of the line starters in free agency 4) Therefore the Brewers need to find another way to obtain good pitchers if they are going to compete. I am not saying they should give up on attempting to draft and develop starting pitching, but really the only other route to take is trading for prospects/young pitchers that develop into successful pitchers. Since pitching is such a premium it's going to take a lot to get a good, young pitcher so the Brewer's options are few and far between. Segura, though he plays a position almost as premium as pitcher and we have nobody ready to replace him. Lucroy, again, premium position that we have no replacements for. Braun, teams wouldn't touch him right now even if we did put him out there. The only other player who could net us that pitching is Gomez. While they are not yet complete MLB players, Schafer and Gindl can both play CF. Aoki could move to center field as well. So really the question is this. Do you sit back and hope your young pitchers (Peralta, Nelson, Hellweg, Thornburg) develop into successful pitchers or do you make the move to go get a guy who could be that #1 pitcher? I just think that people are overestimating the state of the franchise. I don't think we can keep throwing out the same ole team and hope to compete. I think we need to take some chances and go out and get those pitchers we clearly need to compete.

Through 305 at bats Yuni has a .239 on base percentage. I'll say that again. Yuni has a .239 on base percentage

I think the point is that Prince's versatility makes him a better option for the bench than Green. Josh Prince's career minor league numbers aren't even comparable to Green's: .249/.331/.343 vs .289/.370/.452. Yes Prince can physically play the outfield and shortstop and is probably okay defensively but honestly if we need an outfielder to be on the 25 man roster they are at least three, maybe four options ahead of him (Schafer, Gindl, Khris Davis, and maybe Kentrail Davis). And as far as shortstop goes I'd rather pay a veteran $2 million to be a backup than to rely on Prince. Whereas Green has the ability to be the every day option should someone like Ramirez get hurt, I don't see Josh Prince as an every day option. You'd be looking at Alex Gonzalez type numbers, if that. Josh Prince may be able to pay multiple positions but offensively he is not a major league caliber player. And for what it's work, I think Green had three good years in the minor leagues (2007, 2008, 2011) not two like everyone keeps saying. If he didn't have that wrist injury it would have been more.

I honestly wonder what offer it would take for Melvin to trade Gomez. He just seems so darn intent on keeping him, despite the utter lack of pitching, that it seems like his demands for Gomez would be ridiculous.

Would it make too much sense to create a new law requiring any pawn shop/resale shop to require photo ID and to log the names of everyone selling something to them? With the advent of websites like craigslist and ebay there are other options but this would at least remove one route for all these losers to go. Go for the eyes, throat, knees, and nuts. I have long arms so I can gouge someone in the eyes before they get their hands on me. Hit them in the throat so that they temporarily can't breathe. I just want to add two things to this. One.....scream. Especially females. But males, don't feel to manly to yell "help" really loudly. Someone is going to hear you and someone is going to call the police. And the criminal, knowing this, will probably want to get out of there quick. Don't just scream though. Drunk girls scream all the time. Yell something like "help" or "call the police" or "Im being robbed".....things that will get someone's attention. Secondly.....scratch. It sounds dumb but if you scratch you can get some of the attackers DNA underneath your fingerprints. If this person is a convicted felon the DNA is on a state database and they will be found.

I think the fact that Green can play first, second, and third works to his advantage. I'll be disappointed to see him taken off the roster, especially if it is in favor of Juan Francisco. It would be just another young player never given a chance to succeed in Milwaukee. But since Melvin appears to overvalue power and undervalue defense I'd be surprised to see Francisco go.

This is happening all over Milwaukee too. It's pathetic what people are willing to do for a few bucks.

We should have offered Lohse to Baltimore with KRod. That additional comp pick would have looked awfully good. We could have drafted another mid ceiling college outfielder!

If the Brewers management and scouting department were actually competent they'd be no need for constant rebuilds. They could sustain success, not necessarily playoff appearance every year, but success year in and year out. There wouldn't be one awesome team followed by four years of regression. People can blame Mark A all they want but I think Melvin and his scouts are at least as responsible, if not more. Melvin has been around 11 seasons now and he STILL has not developed a successful homegrown starting pitcher yet. That's absolutely pathetic. Then in a year when his team has the 4th worst record in all of baseball he trades......one reliever? He's likely going to throw out a 2014 lineup that will consist of 5 players aged 30 or older, two of whom are coming off a fairly substantial injuries (Hart and Ramirez), one who is coming off a 65 game suspension and one (Weeks) who is very clearly on the downside of his career. I'm sorry but I see absolutely nothing about this organization to be hopeful about.

i get the frustration, but the young outfielders are getting tons of opportunity to play with Braun out... They are not getting nearly as much as they should. Right now you essentially have three young outfielders sharing one spot while Aoki and Gomez continue to play every day. I admit I don't watch the games as much as I did at the beginning of the year but I had to check the roster to make sure Davis was still even on the it before saying it was three outfielders. and there's no reason you couldn't just rest aoki and gomez some over the next two months if you need to see more sub .600 ops hitting from our top prospects Of course there's no reason why you can't rest Gomez and Aoki. And that's exactly why Roenecke will not rest them. Logan Schafer was finally starting to get some consistent playing time and was hitting a little better but oop....now we need to look at Caleb Gindl so back to the bench goes Schafer. God forbid Aoki sits for 3 or 4 games in a row because he's apparently part of the long term plan around here. And let's be sure to call up Khris Davis because he didn't get enough time on the bench his first couple of times around. He's gaining valuable "experience" sitting on the bench next to those big scary major leaguers. We don't want him to be intimidated in 2016 when the Brewers may need him to play every day. Seriously? Do you honestly think that everything Melvin says to the media is going to be accurate? Seriously. Every now and then Melvin will use that line "I'm not motivated to trade...." and then trade him. But that's far the exception to the rule. More often than not if he says he isn't going to trade someone he doesn't trade that person. Plus, if he actually says someone is not available they are probably not available. The last thing you want to do is confuse opposing GMs who may want to ask about that guy by telling media that he's not available. Not everything he says is meant to deceive other teams. You think if he gets offered a good deal for John Axford, a guy who's likely going to be non-tendered, he won't take it? Depends on how "good" the deal is. He'd trade Jean Segura if the deal is good enough. But he should be actively looking to trade Axford, not just waiting for a good enough offer to come along. Axford is either going to be gone or making WAY too much money next season. As far as I'm concerned, getting a relief prospect is better than hanging onto Axford, especially after watching his pathetic showing right now against Chicago. I mentioned it in another thread but I'll mention it here as well. I think Melvin's time has come. We need a GM who understands how to run a small market franchise and Melvin just isn't that person. You have the 4th worst record in baseball right now and the only players you are willing to move are a couple of relievers? I agree with Brewcrewdude. That is a joke.

I like to see enough AB for Gindl,Davis and Schaffer to see what they can do. Good luck. Because of Melvin and Roenecke's complete unwillingness to play younger players, even in seasons that are in the tank, there is all of one spot for those three to fight for. Roenecke won't sit Gomez and he won't sit Aoki. This season is a complete disaster and I think we need to start pointing the finger at Doug Melvin. It will be official in two days but it doesn't look like any more moves are coming, either because DM is asking for too much or because he's holding onto this pipe dream that he can throw the same ole team out there next season and everything will be fine. This despite the fact that we have capable replacements for certain players (Aoki) and others may not even be with the team next season (Gonzalez, Axford.....though I have no doubt DM will pay him $6 million next year to be a setup guy). Other guys like Henderson could return a nice player but Melvin won't move the soon to be 31 year old reliever because he is cheap. And I think the fact that Lohse isn't even being mentioned in trade rumors shows that either Melvin is asking for way too much in return or simply doesn't want to trade him. People will point to the playoff runs in 2008 and 2011 as evidence that he helped turned the franchise around. And yes clearly he did bring some success to the franchise. But this is now his 11th season as Milwaukee's GM. In these 11 season's the Brewers finished above .500 a meager four times, two of which we only 4 games over. The two playoff runs were built on the backs of star pitchers he traded for and who left almost as fast as they came. He and his scouts have still yet to develop one successful starting pitcher outside of Gallardo (lack of pitching success was his downfall in Texas too IIRC). Meanwhile he absolutely refuses to give his young players a shot unless they are top prospects (Braun, Fielder, Weeks) or there is no other option (Hardy, Lucroy, Escobar, Segura). I have been down on Melvin for a for a while now but the lack of activity at the trade deadline in a season where they have the 4th worst record in baseball just solidifies that position for me. I apologize for the rant.

If the Brewers don't trade John Axford I will be the first to call for Melvin's job.