paul253

Have people on this board already soured on Jonathan Lucroy that much? He's 26 and under team control through 2017. I don't see the need to upgrade our catching prospects right now. Not at all. I love Lucroy and put him on my untradeable list. But I'd still like to see some more depth in the minors, especially if Coulter has to eventually move from catcher. Catching? Lucroy and Maldanado are young and will be around for years. Yes we physically have Maldonado but he's isn't exactly setting the world on fire with his offense. The guy is a career .236 hitter with a career OBP under .300. Beside, while they are both on the major league roster right now we don't have much in the minors......nothing if Coulter has to move. Coulter is a guy whom I wouldn't be surprised to see demoted to Helena this year, meaning even if he does stay at catcher and even he does pick it up offensively he probably won't be close to the majors til 2017, right around when we may no longer have Lucroy. You can't look at our current major league roster and say "that's good enough". It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get an additional catching prospect just in case something happens in the next 4 years, especially considering that the Brewers have been about as successful developing catchers as they have been developing pitchers.

Another nice outing for Jungmann last night. 7IP 2hits 1R 0 ERs 3 BBs 5 Ks. Over his last 6 games he's gone 38IP 23 hits 9 ERs 13 BBs 22 Ks. That's good for a 2.13 ERA. I'd like to see more K's, or at least a bigger gap between Ks and BBs but these are very encouraging numbers. And it's in Huntsville too so it's not like he is dominating at Low A ball. Does anyone know what his velocity is? Has it gone up since he's come off the DL?

Well, if we don't trade Hardy, we don't get Gomez. Gomez provides quality defense at centerfield and his bat is finally coming around. Logan Schafer can provide quality defense in CF as well. Maybe not as good as Gomez but certainly still high quality. I hated the Carlos Gomez deal. Yeah he's doing well so far this year but before this year his "breakout" year included a .260 BA and a .305 OBP. I think Melvin looked at his 19 HRs and overvalued that. Logan Schafer could easily hit .260 and have an OBP of .305 and he could do it at 1/8 of the cost of Gomez. I would have preferred DM let Gomez play out his final year and offer him a QO. That would have allowed the Brewers to get a draft pick if he turned them down. It's not like Milwaukee doesn't have a ton of outfield options to replace Gomez. We also managed to get Segura at SS so Hardy would've become obsolete anyway. Manny Machado didn't even make Hardy obsolete so there is no guarantee Segura would have. I think the more likely scenario though is that either Segura would be in AAA right now and Hardy would be traded for pitching eventually, or the Brewers wouldn't have needed Segura and could have looked for better pitching prospects in a deal for Greinke.

Whatever they trade needs to bring in pitching. I have no interest in adding under performing young bats already in the majors or more minors bats. This team needs pitching period. The Brewers do have a strong need for pitching but they are also pretty barren at 3rd base and catcher. We have Coulter obviously but he is a LONG way away. I'd be ok trading for a 3rd base or catching prospect as well as pitching.

I agree with Monty. I see nothing on the Brewers roster (nothing they should trade at least) that will bring back anything other than a mid ceiling prospect. Ramirez is old and expensive. Gallardo is having a terrible year. Lohse is pitching poorly and may have some worries with the elbow. Hart is old and hurt. Maybe some guys from the bullpen will bring back a decent arm but nothing more than a #4 or #5 pitcher I'd guess. I think Gomez could have some value and I'd love the Brewers to explore trading him. I have a feeling his value will never be higher, and they do have Aoki and Schafer who can slide into CF but Melvin won't trade Gomez. It seems like Doug and Mark and finally seeing what many of us have seen for darn near two years. This franchise is in serious trouble.

If the season ended today the Brewers would have the #3 overall pick in the 2014 draft. That is something to be excited about The Brewers will go on some kind of meaningless late season run just like they did last year and move up to the 15th pick. Mark and Doug will take this as a positive sign and that all we need is another 34 year old veteran pitcher to put us over the top.

It really won't be as bad as the prospect junkies try to make it seem. We have a very solid offensive core for the foreseeable future And no depth. Two injuries to that solid offensive core and you have Alex Gonzalez and Yuniesky Bentancourt in your every day lineup. And that core is getting older and more injury plagued by the year. It's possible, if not likely, that the opening day 2014 lineup will have 5 players 30 years of age or older.

It just kills me that Melvin was willing to give away the 17th overall pick in the upcoming draft to sign Kyle Lohse. And here we are, a few days before the draft, sitting with the 3rd worst record in baseball. And Kyle Lohse? 1-6 with a 4.37 ERA and already missed a start with a sore elbow. Doug Melvin's signing of Lohse was a panic move and it's coming back to bite him in a big way right now.

In that we have Maldanado with Coulter in the pipelines. Maldonado was ok last season but he's really nothing special. Coulter is struggling in Low A ball right now. Even if he does live up to expectations you take Melvin's one level a year approach and Coulter wouldn't be here until 2017 or so. And mediocre 1yr veteran Catchers always out there. There is a reason mediocre 1 year veterans catchers are always out there. I have zero interest in throwing guys like Eddie Perez or Mike Rivera out there again.

I sure jack will happily take a prospect for him. I wouldn't give anything more than a mid to low ceiling player for him. He's had ample opportunity to succeed and has failed pretty miserably. I'd give up a guy like Caleb Gindl or Josh Prince maybe but not much else. I like both of those guys but don't see any room in Milwaukee for either of them.

I think after watching this team even casual fans can get behind trading people. But if we trade Braun those fans are gone. I am for blowing up this team as much as anyone but you don't trade Braun Segura or Lucroy. Braun is a legitimate superstar. An all-star every year. Former MVP. Sure thing Hall-of-Famer. Segura and Lucroy are young players who have already enjoyed success at probably the two hardest positions (other than pitcher) to find players at. Awhile ago I made a list of all the catchers the Brewers have thrown out there before Lucroy (guys like Raul Casanova, Henry Blanco, Jason Kendall, and Eddy Perez). No way do you go back to something like that by trading Lucroy, especially now when his value is down a bit. And Segura....I don't think I even need to explain him. I think the Brewers could get a decent return for Lohse and Gallardo. I think we should keep Hart and offer him a QO. I think we should explore trading Aoki, Ramirez, and Gomez. And I think we should trade Weeks to anyone who is willing to take his contract. Let Schafer play in CF. Let Gennett play 2nd. And for pete's sake starting draft something other than outfielders!

There is correlation between draft position and talent when draft position is fairly consistent over several years. Clearly having a higher draft pick helps. My problem with the Brewers is that no matter how high the pick they are unable to draft a successful pitcher. From 2002-2007 (6 drafts) they Brewers had a pick in the top 7 overall 5 times. Most of the picks were good ones (Weeks, Fielder, Braun). The other picks were Rogers and LaPorta. Rogers was picked over Homer Baily who, while not exactly a Hall-of-Famer, has at least been a solid contributor for Cincinnati. LaPorta was picked ahead of guys like Madison Bumgarner, Jarrod Parker and Rick Porcello. Then there was the 2011 draft in which the Brewers picked 12th and 15th. Granted those picks were a little later but the draft was so deep that players still available at those slots would normally have been top 5-10 picks in the average draft. It was an extremely important draft for the Brewers. A very deep, very talented draft and we had two of the top 15 picks. And so far it's looking like Melvin and Seid whiffed on both picks. Despite the success of Weeks, Braun, and Fielder the Brewers would not have been a playoff team at all had they not traded for established pitching. That is because of the complete inability to develop pitching any other place. A GM/Scouting Director shouldn't have to rely on top 7 picks every year in order to develop pitching. A good GM/Scouting Director should be able to at least hit on a few later rounders over the course of a decade, which Melvin and Jack Z./Bruce Seid have never done. That's why the Brewers are in the mess they are in. Not because they haven't had a top 10 pick in awhile.

Unfortunately not only is there no end in sight to the pitching woes but Mark and Doug's MO when their starting pitching has done so bad is to reach for a FA. Looper. Suppan. Wolf. Lohse. It'll happen again next offseason to. If I were the Brewers I'd try to trade the following guys. Lohse. Badenhop. Gorzelany. Mike Gonzalez. Hart. Aoki. Ramirez. No sense is looking to move Weeks or Gallardo because their value is so low. You won't get an elite prospect for any of those guys but you should be able to build some depth. Get a third base prospect, some pitching prospects, maybe a guy you can throw into the rotation next season. Then you just have to hope guys like Peralta can turn things around and someone like Jimmy Nelson, Johnny Hellweg or Tyler Thornburg can contribute next season. The ways things are going this year the Brewers should have a pretty high draft pick next year. They absolutely have to hit on it and it would be ideal if it could be a pitcher. Either way the future of this franchise is not looking up.

Yes, it is having top picks. Lincecum and Bumgarner were top 10 picks. And Buster Posey was the league MVP. The last two NL MVPs were top 5 picks. And Mark Rogers was the #5 pick. Jeremy Jeffress was the #16 pick. Dylan Covey was the #14 pick. Taylor Jungmann was the #12 pick. Jed Bradley was the #15 pick. Mike Jones was the #12 pick. Going back a little further JM Gold was the #13 pick. Those are 7 pitchers taken with picks in the top 16 overall in their respective drafts and not one of them has turned out. I agree that having higher selections certainly helps but you have to something with those picks. When the Brewers had their top draft picks and used them hitters they generally did pretty well (Fielder at #7, Braun at #5, Weeks at #2) but for whatever reason their top picks of pitchers have generally been duds. And that has been the problem. The complete inability to draft quality pitching. And for what it's worth, the Brewers had a chance to pick Bumgarner but selected LaPorta instead. My point is that if the Brewers suck in two years, then they can get top picks, just like they did from 2003-2007, and build another playoff contender. The Giants haven't always been contenders. Unless they continue to do what they've been doing for years now and fail to draft a quality pitcher. Having the #6 pick one year instead of the #15 pick and having the #4 pick the next year instead of the #13 pick isn't going to save this franchise. Beginning to hit on pitchers on a consistent basis will.

That's not old. It's possible that before the start of next season 5 of the 8 regular position players (Braun, Aoki, Ramirez, Weeks, Hart) will all be 30 or older. I'm sorry but that IS old. It also happened to the San Francisco Giants. The difference between the Brewers and the Giants has been the ability to develop pitching. It's not just having top picks. From 2002-2007 three of the Giants first round picks were Lincecum, Bumgarner, and Cain. And Cain was the 25th pick so it's not like the Giants had an easy choice. The Brewers, outside of Sheets and Gallardo still have yet to develop a successful major league starter. If you can't develop pitching you aren't going to win because, as the Brewers have found out, you can only trade for so many established pitchers.

I'm headed up to Target Field for the first time next week and I have two questions for anyone familiar with the stadium and the surrounding area: 1) Does Target Field have an all-you-can-eat section like the Dew Deck at Miller Park or the rightfield bleachers in Pittsburgh? If so what section is it? 2) Any recommendations for bars to go to before or after the game near the ballpark?

Regardless of how St. Louis got into the postseason or who the better team was that year the fact is the Cardinals have been able to sustain that success, even without their star in Albert Pujols, and the Brewers have not. Looking at team ERAs it's not hard to figure out why. Last season St. Louis' was 3.71 and ours was 4.22. This season theirs is 3.09 and ours is 4.46. I've shown in the past the Brewers success the past decade or so is almost directly related to their team ERA ranking. When they made the playoffs in 2008 their team ERA was second in the NL. In 2011 it was 7th. On the flip side, in 2009 their rank was 15th. In 2010 they were 14th. In 2012 they were 13th. And so far this year they are 14th. Since 2000 the only time their team ERA ranked in the top half of the league and they didn't make the playoffs was 2005 when they ranked 5th. What that shows is not only how important pitching is but also how bad their pitching has been under Doug Melvin. They've only finished in the top half of the league in terms of team ERA 3 times in his ten seasons with no end in sight. Meanwhile St. Louis has been in the top half of the league in team ERA 7 of those ten years, not including this season with their first place ranking so far. If the Brewers are ever going to have a run of five or six years in a row where they are contenders they need better pitching, plain and simple. And nothing about Doug Melvin's track record has shown that he is able to acquire better pitching. Like I said before, if you are happy with a year, maybe two, of good competitive teams followed by three or four down seasons then I'm sure you're happy. I'd rather field competitive teams every year and I don't think Doug Melvin is capable of doing that here.

They won because Larussa managed circles around RR who managed the series like the regular season. Also because David Freese hit like Babe Ruth and Albert Pujols hit like, well Albert Pujols. Managing helped but it didn't win the series. St. Louis won because overall they were a better team. Shaun Marcum had a great start to the year but he tanked in the end. In the biggest game of the year, Game 6 of the NLCS, with the Brewers back at home where they had dominated and with Zack Greinke in line to pitch Game 7, the Brewers threw Shaun Marcum out there. If I remember correctly it was 4-0 before the Brewers even got a chance to bat. The next year the Brewers were barely a .500 team while St. Louis, minus Tony Larussa and Dave Duncan, were back in the NLCS. This year about a third of the way into the season St. Louis is in first place and Milwaukee is a mess. Also, I get really, really annoyed by the argument that if you get frustrated with the the state of the franchise, disagree with anything Melvin does, or don't watch the team on tv as often when they are losing you are not a real fan. I am frustrated with the direction of the franchise and think the future is bleak. Hell I said that back in 2011 when they had the second best record in the NL. But I still care. I'll admit that when it comes to the Bucks I'm a fair weather fan. I couldn't care less about them now. But I am still a Brewers fan and I want them to win. Another poster mentioned this but Milwaukee has been filled with bandaids the past few seasons. With essentially the same team from 2010 in 2011 they went out and got 2 years of Greinke and Marcum. While it certainly paid off in 2011 it was not a long term solution. Same with 2008 and Sabathia. In both instances they had HUGE dropoffs the following season. Well now the farm system is so weak you aren't going to be seeing bandaids from trades anytime soon. So instead Melvin relies on free agent bandaids like Kyle Lohse. Is the team better with Lohse? Sure. If the future of the franchise better minus a first round pick and $30 million less to spend? I don't think so. I don't agree with the strategy of overpaying veterans to win more now (I say "win more" as opposed to "win" in general because I think either way we are not a franchise that can win year in and year out like St. Louis) Everyone here knows that the key to sustained success is young, cheap, impact pitching. And everyone here knows that when it comes to obtaining young, cheap, impact pitching Melvin scores a F-. He can't draft them. And the guys he's traded for (Zach Jackson, Capellan, Hellweg, Pena come to mind) haven't been overly successful either. He couldn't do it in Texas and he can't do it here. If you are ok with a team that wins once every 5 or 6 years and falls back to a few games over .500 all the other years then I'm sure you're ok with what Milwaukee has become. I would like to shoot a little higher and go for a team that can consistently compete for playoffs spots. I don't think that is where we are right now and I don't see it in near future because of the aging roster and the lack of pitching.

No, I fully understand the point. I think that suggesting we traded away the future for two playoff appearances not only undervalues the significance of making the NLCS for the first time in Twenty Nine Years, it also ignores the fact that all those transactions also netted Jean Segura who appears to be better than all the prospects we traded away, combined. I don't think it's fair to look at how players turned out and assume they'd have turned out the same way had they stayed with us. You never really know of course but things could have been different for guys like Lawrie, LaPorta, and Cain in Milwaukee. And yes the Brewers got Segura but let's face facts. The major reason Melvin accepted LAA's offer instead of Texas' offer is because of the absolute dearth of shortstops in the system. Had LAA not made Segura available we're looking at Alex Gonzalez as our starting shortstop with nothing behind him. And I'll proclaim right here and now that neither Hellweg or Pena will amount to anything more than middle relievers, if that. If you can't throw strikes you can't be a major league starter and Pena and Hellweg cannot throw strikes. But TheCrew is right. Franchises like Milwaukee can't survive by trading away all of their top prospects for a year of established pitching. They need to figure out how to find established pitching on their own. Melvin couldn't do it in Texas and it's become evident he can't do it here. And yes the Brewers made the NLCS in 2011 but they needed a ridiculously strong finish last season to even finish above .500. Now, a mere two seasons after that they may be one of the worst teams in the NL and are really no closer to solving their pitching problems than they were last season. I think the Brewers have enough talent that they don't need to go into a full fledged rebuild. Braun, Segura, Lucroy and Aoki are all very good players. But they are surrounded by guys who are either over the hill and well past their primes (Hart, Weeks, Ramirez) or guys they hope can reach their potential (Gomez). And the pitching staff is a disaster. The Brewers need to find a Scouting Director who knows how to properly evaluate pitching and a GM who realizes you can't hold on to every piece of your team as long as possible and hope they produce the same results year in year out.

I have zero interest in this year's team. Until Melvin figures out how to acquire young, talented pitching the franchise will go nowhere. A franchise like Milwaukee has to recycle talent and build through the draft. Melvin would rather hang onto his guys for as long as humanly possible, overpaying them in the process, and letting the young players rot in the minors or on the bench. And he's perfectly ok with giving up a first round draft pick to sign a 34 year old to a three year deal because it might keep us closer to .500. Although I suppose it's not that big of a deal as most of his first round picks are duds anyway. Doug Melvin shouldn't be the GM of a small market franchise. Everyone will point to the two playoff appearance as evidence of how great of a GM he is but the fact is he traded away the future for those two appearances.

The things the Brewers need to do, in my opinion, are: 1) Either trade Hart if have any value, which I doubt he will, or offer him a QO at the end of the year. I'm not sure if he'll accept or not. It's a lot of money and he wants to play in Milwaukee, but someone his age might want one last multi-year deal. If he accepts he's your first basemen. If he declines you get a badly needed draft pick. 2) Trade Henderson. It pains me to think about how much we could have gotten for Axford a few years ago only to see his value plummet to it's current nothing. Henderson won't bring as much back now as Axford would have but closers are extremely overvalues. I'd shoot for a young pitching or third base prospect in return. 3) Trade whatever bullpen arms you can. Gorzelany. Gonzalez. Even KRod if you get anything. 4) Fire Seid and bring in a Farm director with a better track record. The Brewers drafts have been, in short, pathetic, in the past few years. There have been way too many first round busts, particularly in the pitching area. He also completely ignores certain positions, namely 3B and SS, which is why are system is so barren at those positions. I can only imagine our SS situation now had Segura not been made available by LAA last season. 5) Explore trading Lohse or Gallardo. We are stuck with Weeks and Ramirez due to terrible contracts. If they can both play at the level they are capable of playing Milwaukee can compete. But the important thing is for Melvin to stop offering ridiculous contracts to players that end up biting us. I liked the Lucroy deal but I still think he overpaid Gomez.

Yeah it seems like each season had a real slow, annoying storyline that we could do without. I think it was season 3 that had the Wayne/Julia/Sherry storyline. Season 4 had the Erin and her daughter storyline. Season 8 had Dana and her ex-husband. I'm sure I'm missing some but maybe they'll be less of that with only 12 episodes.

I think Seid needs to go. They have absolutely positively got to find a better judge of pitching talent. The recent selections of Arnett, Jungmann and Bradley have absolutely killed us. And while obtaining Segura was an exceptional move I have no faith in Hellweg and Pena, neither or whom can throw strikes. While the pitching ranks have definitely improved we are still lacking the impact talent and seem to have no idea how to change that. I don't know if they are drafting the wrong guys or just developing them wrong but whatever it is they are doing is not working. Then as far a drafting position guys go we have been ignoring certain positions for years. And shockingly those positions are completely barren in the system. Shortstop and third base in particular. Can you imagine the situation we'd be in right now if LAA hadn't made Segura available? They need to start drafting something other than pitcher and outfielder. They also have to move away from the idea that veteran=better. While they haven't had that elite prospect lately they have had a number of guys who could be major league regulars. But they are never given a chance. Gamel was never given a chance, though injuries have something to do with that. Taylor Green. Logan Schafer has no spot and will not any time soon. Same for Khris Davis. Scooter Gennett has nowhere to play. Yeah Segura and Lucroy were inserted into the lineup at a very young age but that was more so because there were literally no other options. They need to make more of a commitment to some younger players.

Wooten has a career 2.74 minor league ERA. I don't think it's fair to look at 2/3 of one season and say based on that he is not ready now. Yeah he's old but I don't think that really means anything. He was a drafted out of college and missed a year with Tommy John surgery. But he has been making steady progress, advancing every year. It's not like he's been in AAA for 4 years. Hand was pitching very well but has given up 5 earned runs in his last 5 innings, though his ERA is still only 3.18. He darn near made the team out of spring training and deserves a shot, more so than a guy who failed time after time after time last season.

That's likely their logic with this move. Not that I agree with it, but it's pretty obvious to see. And that is why Milwaukee is a place where mid ceiling prospects go to die.