TJseven7

He'd be a nice respectable stop gap, who expires next year, who would get us to Nelson and hopefully Burnes. Don't care to give up much for him. Broxton and diplan wouldn't bother me a bit. If thats enough, cool. If not then keep him. We started guerra peralta garza last year. Corbin can better garzas showing. I'd expect 4.2 era comfortably. That's helpful when you look at woodruff being young and chacin being chacin. Having solid options is clearly undervalued. People just assume suter or wilkerson can give the same but that's exactly how you end up starting guerra garza and peralta.

Santana was the best bat on our team last year. Adding yelich and cain are positives. We aren't getting archer. That's labelled an ace. Salazar does nothing for the casual fan. They follow braun like a star who has 1 good year since he was caught cheating. The follow thames cuz he has a beard? The casual fan doesn't know salazar. You aren't losing a deal by waiting til monday. You just avoid questions. You really think these gms dont have a decency amoungst each other or a working understanding of their fan base. They have pr people. They coukda had this all but wrapped up weeks ago in the event other things worked out... yelich cain in and the deal is on... for monday.

Is this a change or scheduled?

You could see the "prove it" deal come into full force in the mlb with how tight the teams seem to be this point. Don't get signing a guy who declined to worse then pina to start over pina due to fear he will decline. I'm not even getting into filler adds until monday passes. We need to know the next move.

I don’t expect the Brewers to sign Arrieta, but no, I wouldn’t say it isn’t still possible. Teams at 92 mil. Could they go to 112 mil. Yeah but that's about as high as many feel they would go.

How do you know they are having trouble? Mostly, operating under the assumption that if they had a deal that they liked on the table, they would have accepted it. They would certainly have no reason not to now. But it was reported during the Winter Meetings that a lot of AL scouts had some strong reservations about Santana. Is it a deal they'd want announced before fanfest. Dealing santana before fan fest for anything that isnt seen as a clear ace is a buzzkill pr wise.

You're missing one of the most important variables in the equation. Their pitching staff would clearly benefit from an extra reliever, and if Braun can play 1b, it would be a waste of a roster spot to keep Aguilar. That extra reliever is going to add more value to the team than playing Braun in RF over Phillips and giving Aguilar ~50 starts. Perez's versatility makes him a lock for a roster spot ahead of Aguilar. They had 13 pitchers at times last year and also nearly turned their season around and made the playoffs by using the bullpen all the time in September instead of a traditional 6 inning starter + 2-3 relievers plan for every game. Their rotation is once again not going to give you a ton of innings so it makes sense to use a lot of relievers. I'm confident that's what they're looking for and it's the right move. Using your bullpen a ton in September is something you can do because the rosters expand. Let’s not over think this one too much here. Aguilar played a large role for the Brewers last year and could again next year if certain players are moved. They aren’t carrying 13 pitches all season long. Dont have to carry 13. You can sit williams houser and ramirez in triple A and cycle them in when injuries pop up. No matter which path you go. Deal santana or not. If a bat goes down out depth and multi position capabilites can cover for the length of the injury and we can bring up a AAA rp to get some burn. Any position but C we could manage. Thames braun aguilar villar sogard arcia shaw perez yelich cain santana. Lose of braun plays lf, perez some subs, aguilar get more time at 1st. Lose shaw, best option is perez anyway. Sogard villar can cover 2b and all 2b ss 3b depth. SS hurt play sogard, villar depth perez plays depth 3b and 2b. 2b obvious. 1b we'd have 3. Thames aguilar villar sogard arcia shaw perez braun yelich cain phillips... even easier if braun merely moonlights at 1b. There's no reason to call up rivera to sit on the bench. Need a ph... davies suter for the bunt, and if he's here, yo go swing. Suter would be fine as well.

What about the injury issue with Fulmer at the end of last season? I think that would further push items toward Archer (or going with a FA).. He had a nerve transported to prevent irritation issues. That's not a big deal. So an 8 war pitcher at 24 (2 not even full years) isnt an ace because he doesn't K enough guys? Archer in 5 years has had 1 year better than fulmers average. One guy averages 6ip per start. 1 averages 6.3 at 24 years old.

So mejia or mckenzie for domingo and guy like diplan. Yeah Ill take either of those. I'd love to stop there. But when the other pieces needed are ortiz, dubon and grisham for Fulmer. You get out of that deal only giving up 1 of the 4 top arms. No huira lutz or even phillips erceg ray. You take that and say thanks. Is fulmer TOP? Not quite yet but you could definitely see him being one. Fulmer nelson anderson davies woodruff chacin with burnes Fperalta still in the system is an easy yes. You add a 2b trade broxton villar for lottos and call it a great offseason. Don't think that will happen though. Im hopeful about santana and diplan for mejia or mckenzie but that wouldn't be announced until monday due to fanfest. You dont deal big name bats for prospects before you shake hands with your fans.

With santana we have 5 of 8 positions locked in with very limited rest. Yelich cain santana arcia shaw with health play 152 games. With braun thames at 1b you'd have all of of rest and 1b covered. Yelich cain santana braun shaw arcia thames. We needs subs at ss 3b. Need platoon at 2b and C. Pina vogt. That's 9. Villar 2b emergency ss 3b. Sogard 2b ss. Perez 2b 3b emergency LF C 1b etc. So we are at 12. What makes us better. Broxton who will play as a defensive sub pr only. While we have phillips in aaa waiting for an injury to be called up. Or 8th rp... with ramirez williams houser waiting in aaa to cycle. Or a big bench bat who is braun insurance at 1b and seems to have a knack for the difficult job of being a ph. I want him hitting once a game. I dont see broxtons need to stay.

The only guy I really worry about is Diaz. I doubt brinson can match yelich within his control. Harrison, well I dont value corner of as much as I should. Yes athletic enough for cf but I don't see that being his path. Yamamoto is interesting but a good lottery ticket. Then comes diaz. I hate giving up diaz. If he pan out at 2b he could be an absolute monster. Like team altering monster. 2b with his potential are not common so that part freaks me out. I have to assume stearns feels huira would have arrived at about the same time and both are 2b only mlb players. Otherwise you treat Diaz like an elite arm and you just dont trade him. Really hope he nailed the Huira Lutz picks. They'd erase what we lost here if they pan out at a high level.

"I think most of the fan base want to see the next move. They want Santana to turn into a pitcher. It’s the big way this team transforms into a real contender." That would require an ace. Sell me on Salazar as an ace. 1 time over 150 ip. Coming off 4.28 era. 28? I doubt that moves the needle. Cleavenger? Who? Do you see my point. If we went santana burnes ortiz for Archer... oh we'd sjow that off Archer is an ace. Hes been 200 ip for 4 straight year. But if we don't go big you let yelich and cain pump up the base and make the sausage later. I want to keep Santana. But I also want to start phillips in rf and have a 2b or SS or C who is an elite. Without a stacked of we don't have a title contender we have a wc or maybe division contender. No altuve, no correa. But if they've done anything beyond elite since taking over its never relinquishing a starter capable arm. Trading a stick who would have to go full blown nelson cruz to be better for an arm is a smart value move. If a guy like salazar locks in he's worth double santana. Arms and middles C 2b ss cf are hard. The rest is not if the middle is loaded. But our best offensive player coming into this week being dealt is not a warm fuzzy. Yelich is a star. Cain is one of our own and very good. Santana is the opposite of tgat pr wise unless its for an ace. It's not.

Conspiracy theory time: Santana is dealt but not for a household name like stroman or archer. If that was the case we'd announce it now and go into fanfest screaming YELICH CAIN ARCHER. But casual fan knows Santana was our best bat last year. Casual fan loves the hrs. Casual fan doesn't know salazar or high level prospect types. So that waits til after fan fest. That is all.

If you're blocked by other players, you're not getting a lot of playing time, right? So how is that going to help Santana's value? Just because Yelich wanted to be traded doesn't mean the Marlins had to trade him. What's he going to do? Hold out until he's traded? You honestly can not believe he is blocked. If he's here Braun is a 1b come hell or high water. Thames is minimalized, aguilar is blocked. Santana is not blocked. Broxton and phillips sure are. Santana no.

"I think it's the half sentences, statements, phrases, or whatever you want to call it. lol But yeah, triple quoting is a nuisance." My posts are usually too long as is. Think of sentences as bullet points.

It mirrors Braun. As brauns declines cains increases.

I think you need to really look at how you format your posts. They are so hard to read. But also, we probably need to put a pin in what the Brewers roster will look like as there seem to be even more changes on the way. Too hard to discuss what most likely won't be what we go into the season with. I think I would rather buy a corner OF than a pitcher. Pitching is almost always more expensive. And pitching wins rings. Also, our offense will be alright with or without Santana. Its the triple quote issue. Name a decent OF available to buy. They are gone.

Are we going with a 8 man pitching staff? no backup catcher? no backup middle infielders? there's only 25 spots on the roster.... Pina vogt Braun Thames Aguilar Villar Sogard Arcia Shaw Perez Yelich Cain Santana Braun counts as the 4th Of but plays mainly 1b. Sogard perez villar are all super utility. Perez can also play LF. Villar can supposedly play CF, never again. Phillips in AAA. If an OF goes on the DL he comes up. Having Thames aguilar perez sogard vogt to ph is very nice. I'd yry to ph aguilar ever single game.

Pitcher issue Pitching we do and we don't. We have 3 guys controlled 3-4 years. We have nelson 3 years back at some point hopefully. We have chacin for 2 years. Williams houser fperalta could hit the pen this year. Ortiz and burnes could be ready before we lose chacin. Today we need 1... by season end we could add that 1 and have 7. Good problem for sure. However now we also have an offense that can go cain yelich santana shaw braun/thames. Never have an of spot filled by a guy outside that 5 pack unless one is hurt. A lineup that even if braun gets hurt has a vicious top 5 (keep aguilar) unless shaw yelich santana or cain are resting. We need to break that up? So we can see if thames and aguilar are really last years duo? Guys with admittedly low trade value. This notion of you have to break off your 25 year old 4 year controlled power hitter who just had a 371 obp season because of thames and aguilar ab is bonkers. You could deal santana and watch villar flame out. Thames be not the 1st month and aguilar regress and braun get more brittle. Only to have 7 arms. 1 with little to no value chacin and then you are back chasing a bat. There's a glut on the horizon one place or another. If that's your options neither is critical. So you don't have to do anything. We could also spend 18 mil per on a pitcher. There's no santana rival on the market. We got the 2 upgrades left and the rest are stuff. Pitching is fragile today. We can buy a solution. Trade santana the offense is fragile and theres no solution to buy.

But you can say things like WE PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO DEAL SANTANA? To accomplish what? Not devaluing Thames? Or aguilar. Oh dear, not thames and aguilar. A 5 mil platoon 1b and a waiver wire dh pick up. Can we not add walker at risk of devaluing villar? Santana's contract doesn't turn into a pumpkin at midnight and he's the best of on the market by a long shot for every team that can't afford jd... which is nearly everyone.

Braun, full no trade clause. Cain, full no trade clause at least for this year and even without one, it's not like we were going to sign him just to trade him in June. Yelich, see Cain. So unless they're actually serious about moving Braun to 1st full time, in which case Thames and/or Aguilar is on the chopping block, where is Santana going to play. And yeah, they can move them around but they're not going to be considered full time players, so how happy are they going to be with that? Sorry if I don't see rainbows and sunshine all the time but getting value for Santana got quite a bit harder than it was 24 hours ago and when reports came out earlier in the offseason about the market for Santana being cool to begin with, I'm not exactly optimistic that we're going to get good value for him. Santana RF. There's room for 25 - 35 games in LF for Braun with normal rest days from yelich santana cain. No injuries. Aguilar basically become a ph. Thames becomes a part time player. Im not concerned at all about the feelings of thames who can't hit lefties who had 1 monster month and a guy we scooped off waivers. I want abs going to great bats.

Huh? You act as though Thames/Aguilar were a bad combo last season. Does someone have to remind you of what they produced? And Braun, well he's still the best hitter on the team if he's healthy, so yeah, they will probably do everything they can to center the offense around him. By including all these good, quality players, he and Shaw and Santana should'nt have to try to carry the offense. And how would santana carry the offense when you intend to move him? This yeah when healthy Braun stuff is great and all but he wasn't 2016 braun all of 2017 or 2014. So that's a concern. 2 "healthy" braun year in the 4 since the susp year. 2 year in 4 where he out-produced last years santana. When its "not playing" Braun your 5 pack falls to 4... and the other 4 of villar/sogard, phillips/broxton, pina/vogt, arcia are pretty hard to count on for anything impactful. *** my apologies *** he had 2 of 4. Two 3.8s vs santanas 3.5. Ones 33 and the other 25. Im not complaining about the 1b platoon being a poor value. I'm saying it isnt what you want as your 4th best option. And your "best" option is fragile and has been elite 1 time since he got busted.

"I don't see them messing around with where Braun hits. You can make all the arguments you want to but when Braun is in there, he's been in the 3-hole pretty much as a given. Santana may get in the 2-hole though. Maybe. Doubtful he's still here though." A 5 pack on offense hinging on Brauns health and Thames Aguilar is a great way to make a push and fail.

Santana hasn't been and most likely will not be our 3-hole. Yeah cuz he was 2 for a stretch. 1 for a stretch. Wont be there due to cain or yelich now. You want him behind braun/thames and shaw? 206 ab 1-2-3 289 ab 5th Best numbers 2 hole then 5 hole.

We have depth in the rotation, but we definitely need better arms at the top of the rotation. I posted this in another thread, but here's what the ZiPS projections look like for our pitchers vs. the ones we're talking about: [pre]Player ERA FIP K/9 BB/9 ERA+ Nelson 3.74 3.79 9.1 3.1 115 Davies 4.05 4.06 6.8 2.6 108 Woodruff 4.17 4.17 8.2 3.2 103 Anderson 4.32 4.48 7.9 2.9 100 Suter 4.41 4.41 7.2 2.6 98 Chacin 4.77 4.68 7.5 3.8 90 Player ERA FIP K/9 BB/9 ERA+ Archer 3.27 3.10 10.6 2.7 125 Stroman 3.54 3.47 7.8 2.5 121 Salazar 3.60 3.48 11.2 3.5 117 Duffy 3.78 3.86 8.2 2.5 112 Player ERA FIP K/9 BB/9 ERA+ Darvish 3.24 3.22 11.0 2.7 127 Arrieta 3.53 4.16 8.7 2.9 123 ('17 numbers, '18 ZiPS not available yet) Cobb 3.77 4.00 6.7 2.3 108 Lynn 3.82 4.25 7.7 3.7 106[/pre] If we can grab two of those arms to put at the top of the rotation it'd be a huge upgrade, especially for a potential postseason run. That may be getting ahead of ourselves a bit, but that's the point of all this right? If the prospects are pushing their way onto the roster, that's great and we have a depth of quality arms to deal to replenish the farm or other areas (just as we've created with the outfield). But right now we don't have a 1-2-3 punch that I would feel good going into the playoffs with. I would be surprised if we actually landed two more pitchers, but I can definitely see where some see the need is coming from. But thats also 25 million on the payroll and in the case of stroman archer scorched earth on our farm. Duffy would be too cap expebsive to get and add a fa. Salazar is the only one tgat looks workable with our cap that wouldn't kill our farm but it also likely rips Santana from the 3 hole which negates a lot of the gain we just made. As someone just stated. If these projections are accurate we are boned anyway.