Jopal78

I didn't mean interest/support as solely going to the games. While that is a part of it, it is simply people consuming some aspect of the Brewer product; including watching the games on TV, buying merchandise, etc. etc. I noticed you used the year 2007, which of course the Brewers have had only three losing seasons since that point. However have been plenty of 14,000 fan nights at Miller Park since it opened. Even as recently as 2013, 2014 and 2015 there have been plenty of 23,000 fan nights. The Cubs and Giants are filled up almost nightly despite the team on the field.

I'm skeptical of any reports about the Brewers finishing in the red. That's basically asking us to just blindly believe the Brewers finances from a reporter who was told by who? Not an objective 3rd party most likely. And as so many have said, there are a lot of creative accounting measures that can help them show a loss when in reality they made money. But of course nobody on here knows what's going on. I am a bit surprised how many people are concerned about a billionaire losing a few million dollars in a particular year in one of their investments...one that most billionaires get involved in because they enjoy it and less because of the potential financial windfall. But then I also think the idea that the Brewers should take out loans in order to be able to meet the payroll obligations. I think what most fans want is pretty simple. A team that's competitive, that's trying to win and that occasionally will reach a bit further when they're close to winning to add a couple of pieces. I think it's pretty hard to argue that the Brewers HAVEN'T been doing that during Mark Attanasio's tenure. I just want to see the Brewers make smart decisions and every once in a while...sure, I'd like to see them really stretch their financial resources. But it seems like too many want them to do this annually. Strausburg for example. Great pitcher, but he averaged ~145 innings from 26-29. Is that really the type of guy the Brewers should be betting their financial future on? Wheeler was even riskier. I don't think there is a number that anyone can throw out there and say the Brewers should be spending this much per season. We're all just too ignorant about their financials. But just as I'm surprised to see how worried so many are about a billionaires finances, I'm equally surprised in the lack of faith in Attanasio. The idea that he's equally or more invested in making money from the franchise than he is in winning. A lot of these guys buy teams because they've had tremendous success and they want own a franchise so they can win. Again, I really haven't seen evidence that Attanasio is not living up to that. I’m not personally concerned that Attanasio might be losing a few million every year. But if you are looking for a logical, legit reason why payroll isn’t higher, that’s it. Whether you like it or not, it is what it is. Is all of this really that hard? Milwaukee is the worst market in the major leagues. Hemmed in on the west by the Minnesota Twins, to the South by the Chicago Cubs and Chicago White Sox, Southwest by the St. Louis Cardinals and to the east by an enormous lake. Their market is literally the state of Wisconsin and the U.P. That's like 6 million people total and no access to any proximal markets without a MLB team. Now couple that with a team which for most of its existence fielded poor teams and was devoid of superstar players and its easy to see why in their own market, fan interest in the team is best described as 'tepid' unless they're competing for a playoff spot. Mark Attanasio is a billionaire investment banker. Owning a professional sports franchise in one of the major sports leagues is the ultimate investment. There's a finite number of them, they're expensive to purchase, but historically the value only continues to go up. He bought his team for 223 million dollars and the last MLB team to change hands (Miami) did so for 1.2 billion dollars. There's no need to line his pockets with team revenue, because they're already stuffed with cash from his primary gig as a financier. To the contrary, the team kicked in up to 60 million dollars to renovate their spring training facility in Phoenix (with the municipality kicking in 10 million over 5 years time). They're also building a brand new baseball academy in Santa Domingo in the Dominican Republic. There have been numerous renovations to Miller Park in recent years. Not to mention smaller things like paying a design firm for concepts for their recent re-branding. All of these soak up the team's revenue not just contracts for players on the 25 man roster. The caricature of the over grown man-child as owner who wants to win at all costs even if it includes spending his own money, is just that a caricature not based in reality.

I think a lot of people want to denigrate Guerra because they specifically remember some game that he threw gas on the fire, and say “lookee the advanced metrics suggest he’s been more lucky than good”. Fact of the matter is when they brought Guerra into games he got the job done way more often than not. Be it luck or talent who knows but he threw a lot of innings for the Brewers with quality end results. If you look at the salary numbers, Guerra signed with the D’Backs for about what he made last year. As an arbitration eligible player with Milwaukee they couldn’t pay him the same amount as in 2019 (otherwise I’m sure he’d still be on their roster). They also determined his production wasn’t worth a raise in salary, which again was proven true by his contract with Arizona. Bottom line, he’s a quality major league pitcher, who was a victim of a numbers game in Milwaukee.

So the money conscious Rays are going to trade a decently priced starter (cheap for his level of performance, at times) for a reliever who is go to be crazy expensive for a reliever after this year? I don’t know if that really makes sense. The Rays had a 62 million dollar payroll in 2019. When you only have 60+ million for 40 players and a minimum salary of 600,000k, is it easier to fit an elite reliever making 6-8 million, or a starting pitcher making 11-12??

To be fair, the team is 50 years old and in the last half of that existence you can count the number of homegrown quality starting pitchers to make a substantial number of starts for the Brewers on your fingers: Sheets, Gallardo, Fiers, Nelson and Woodruff. Certainly other small market teams like the Twins have spent money on free agent starters and had success doing so. That’s not Stearns’ game, I get that and I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt after back to back appearances in the post season. Yet, it’s legitimate to question why the team isn’t trying to improve their pitching (which was their weakness last year) via free agency, especially in light of the fact that they won’t be able to have an army of fresh arms coming out of the bullpen this September

Is Lyles better than Chase Anderson? Probably not, and at best it’s a push. The Brewers jettisoned Anderson rather than pay him 8.5 million, so no surprise that Lyles isn’t coming back. I have a feeling next years rotation is going to be Woodruff, Houser, Lauer, Peralta and Burnes with maybe a bargain basement innings eater slotted in after Houser with Peralta in relief.

Why doesn't Don Sutton have more recognition around the Brewers franchise. They have flags for their other three Hall of Famers (Yount, Molitor, and Fingers). Like Sutton, Rollie Fingers played the majority of his career with other teams. Sutton started 71 games for the Brewers including 2 of their 7 world series games.

Can we stop with the trading Hader for prospects, please? It doesn't matter if its Kieboom, Mackenzie Gore, etc., the team is built to compete in the here and now. They aren't going to trade one of the bonafide stars in the game simply for prospects. The only plausible trade involving Josh Hader would be one that makes the team better in both the short run and the long run. I really don't believe the owner nor the GM is going to use up the remaining three years from Yelich, arguably the best player in the NL, hoping a load of prospects obtained for Hader all hit the ground running. Minor league players who come up and are stars from day one, like Kris Bryant and Ryan Braun are so few and far between that any package of prospects is a gamble, whereas Hader is a proven star at the MLB level.

Josh Hader for Blake Snell straight up. Hader is controlled for four more seasons at more moderate prices than Snell (4 yrs/47 million). With Glasnow, Chirinos, and Morton the Rays have plenty of starting pitching. With Poche, Pagan and Hader together, they'd have a cost controlled shutdown bullpen for years to come. The Brewers would get the Ace #1 starter they've consistently lacked since Ben Sheets left. The 1-2 punch of Snell and Woodruff can match up against the #1-2 of any team in the NL. Plus, the Brewers will never be able to acquire a #1 starter at such a price.

Hahah, darn talk to text

With Navarez at catcher in 2020 at a salary of $3 million that’s over 15 million in savings from last year with Grandal. With the 12 million they paid to Moustakas that makes $27 million I’m wondering if the Brewers could offer Donaldson an three-year contract for 66 million. There would still be savings this year next year Braun is off the books and Donalson’s deal will expire at the same time as Yelich is so they wouldn’t have salary commitments to impair them attempting to resign Yelich. However off the top my head I cannot recall what Donaldson made last year and he’s 34 going on 35

These moves don’t happen in a vacuum. Seattle basically states they wanted to move him over salary concerns. Two teams with needs at catcher already signed Grandal and d’Arnaud. How many teams are looking to upgrade at catcher and willing to part with players to do it. That being said, I’m sure Seattle won’t be giving him away for spare parts.

I’m going to guess the players going to Seattle is going to sting a little bit. Arcia and Supak, or Faria and Lutz something like that.

A look at the history and you’ll see the general manager is doing things exactly how he does them every year. the only free agent ever given a long-term contract was Lorenzo Cain and I believe that was in January he also signed Moustakas and Grandal to one year deals and signed Justine to a team friendly deal. Accordingly I’m not holding my breath that they hand out a four or five year contract to a free agent. lEhe I had hoped they would sign Hamels on a one year deal my guess is they’re going to pick through the free agents and shop for bargains once the top tier has all been signed

It’s not moving the goal posts, it’s perspective. A super majority of teams have payroll in excess of 100 million. A third of the teams are closer to 200 million than 100 million. Viewed in that context a payroll of 126 million+ isn’t that significant

$136 million last year, just for the record. Yep and it was smaller than every team in the NL Central but for Pittsburgh and the 6th smallest overall in the NL

Come on! Take off the Brewers colored glasses. Hamels has been a top tier starting pitcher in the major leagues for over a decade. Not only does he have the track record Hamels had the better season last year under any objective standard. I took a quick look, up until about 2 minutes ago I thought Hamels was 38 going on 39. He's actually only going on 36...and yes that matters a lot. I suppose it's probably more likely that he has a better season than Lyles, but I still don't think he's worth $18m. Worth noting, Hamels velocity dipped to below 92 mph for the first time since he was 24. He also had nearly a 6 era in the 2nd half. I think it's very safe to say that Hamels is not a top tier starting pitcher anymore. He might work as a veteran #3 starter right now. $18m is a hefty price for a #3 starter. I don’t know about a number three starter certainly in the first half of last season he was the Cubs number one starter then suffered an oblique injury, like Woodruff, and his results weren’t as good after returning from injury. I guess it’s the problem with being a Brewers fan. We know they payroll is never going to go much beyond $100 million and around the league front line starting pitching goes for $18 million+ Per season. The math just doesn’t look good for adding an 18+ million dollar salary; yet cost controlled front line starting pitching isn’t available in a trade at a palatable price. That’s why the Brewers usually get band aids for the rotation or hope to catch lightning in a bottle on a reclamation project.

Come on! Take off the Brewers colored glasses. Hamels has been a top tier starting pitcher in the major leagues for over a decade. Not only does he have the track record Hamels had the better season last year under any objective standard.

They wouldn’t have stood by Nelson for 2 years if they didn’t like him, and I’m sure they’d like him back. However by non-tendering him they only want him back at their price in a role of their choosing. If nobody in the major leagues likes Nelson more than the Brewers do I imagine he’ll be back in 2020. If some other team wants to guarantee him a roster spot, spot in the rotation, more money etc. he’ll be gone.

That's the way it's designed, that's often not the way it works in reality. They can't submit a salary that they necessarily think is fair, they submit a salary that they think would have a chance to be awarded in arbitration. If the Brewers would have tendered Schoop last offseason for instance, a "fair" offer based on his estimated FA might have been 5M, which is what he actually ended up getting. If the Brewers had submitted that offer in arbitration, they would have been slaughtered in arbitration and Schoop would have gotten whatever figure he submitted, probably $10-$11M. The Brewers would have had to submit an overpay offer of about 8-9M to have a chance of winning even knowing that would be an overpay relative to his free agent value. Thus the increased non-tenders and broken arbitration system. Schoop actually signed for 7.5 million. Teams don't compare similar players to determine pay in a vacuum. Using Schoop for example at this time in 2018; he was 26 years old, averaged 26 homers per 162 games, had a .257 batting average across 2484 career at bats. Played a premium position 3B, and was not a liability defensively. He made 8.5 million for the 2018 season. Anyone here would give 10 million dollars for those offensive numbers from a third baseman when viewed in a vacuum. In fact, Moustakas made more than that with the Brewers in 2019. The Brewers cut him loose over concerns his poor play down the stretch would spill into 2019. The Twins got him at a bargain for 7.5 million due to the bear market that was the 2018 off season. Don't forget Schoop went out an hit .256 for the Twins with 23 homers in a 121 games. If Moustakas is getting 16 million per in 2020, Schoop is probably going to be just a bit behind in AAV for 2020.

I'm in agreement on this. Would love to see Jimmy come back on a reduced deal. I could see a rebuilding or cash-strapped high payroll ballclub take a chance on him with a short, incentive-laiden deal in the hopes that he shows enough success to be either a deadline flip candidate or value rotation guy on a contender. Wouldn't surprise me to see him pitching for the Pirates or Cubs next year. Jimmy Nelson is an interesting case. He suffered major shoulder injuries where he missed nearly two whole years in the majors. When he came back his results in the minors were underwhelming and he got lit up in the major leagues until the final series of the season. Because Nelson has 5+ years of service time, he is unlike Mike Minor when the Royals signed him with two years of control remaining. He's probably going to have to prove himself in spring training on a non-roster deal. In a business where money talks, there probably isn't that many grudges with the people who hold the money.

While true, I can't imagine listening on everyone is a good way to do business, at least publicly. Are free agents going to want to join a club knowing they will always be shopped? It's all guaranteed money, 99% of players could not care less where they play, its the money that matters.

It would not surprise me for a minute if Jimmy Nelson and Junior Guerra return, maybe even Alex Claudio. Succinctly stated, the role those players would have on the 2020 team did not match up with the salary they were likely to get. Jimmy Nelson would likely have been a back of the rotation starter or long man out of the pen. The team believes they can fill that role for less. Claudio, as others have pointed out, is a victim of the rule changes. 45 of his 83 appearances were for less than one inning. As a middle reliever who doesn't pitch complete innings there isn't much value. Guerra is 35 and his career FIP of 4.53 with the Brewers paints a different picture than his 1.27 whip and 3.79 era with the Brewers. With a healthy Knebel and Hader at the back of the bullpen Junior was basically another veteran middle reliever where the team believes they can fill the role at a better price. What remains to be seen is if those players simply want a change of scenery now that they have been cut loose.

I forget, if a player is non-tendered are the Brewers then prevented from resigning in the off season. I’d imagine with players like Nelson and Guerra they still want the player but at a certain price, and therefore if they can’t get it somewhere else as a free agent they resign with Milwaukee on the Brewers’s terms??

Right on, the Brewers would ask for Syndergaard as a headliner along with McNeil. Any trade where the other team doesn't give key pieces to get one of the Brewers best players just isn't realistic.