Jopal78

It just seems to me no team cashes In Fewer runners on third with zero or one out than Milwaukee

These are the type of games that tells you all you need to know about the Brewers. Can’t knock out Homer Bailey, let Oakland hang around and bring in tired arms late to protect a one run lead

Who goes out to make room for Grisham?

I wasn’t expecting much, but we’re the Brewers actually sort of soft sellers at the deadline? They got Lyles out of absolute necessity. They traded Dubon and Aguilar who will immediately go o their acquiring teams’ big league rosters for a rental swingman who hasn’t been good for in a couple years and two minor league relievers.

I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop in Cincinnati. They now have: Castillo, Gray, Bauer, DeScalfani, Mahle, Roark and just activated Alex Wood. I'm assuming they'll ship out Roark and Wood before the deadline. Both could help the Brewers down the stretch.

This is the age old debate on these forums since the 00s; one faction would argue trading a pile of AA players for Mickey Mantle was an overpay. The other faction argues for the sure thing now over a future chance. Is either side right... nobody knows.

What “prospects” did they give up? Considering Nick Senzel was their top prospect at the beginning of the year; they gave up their 2nd best prospect and their 12th for a top of the rotation starter with another year of control. If you were the GM of the Brewers and could get Bauer for two prospects without giving up Hiura; you’d make that deal. So don’t be ridiculous. They gave the Yankees Shed Long for Sonny Gray in addition to the comp balance pick. You can’t seriously be calling him a prospect? They got Puig, Wood and Kemp from LA by taking their contracts and even managed to unload Homer Bailey in the process. Where’s the over pay here?

Kudos to the Reds GM for being able to identify quality talent that other teams are eager to get rid of. He takes on Gray’s contract and only gives up competitive balance pick (Brewers got Claudio for theirs haha). Gets Puig for nothing by merely swapping bad contracts with the Dodgers. Gets Tanner Roark for virtually nothing by taking on the contract. Ships Puig and prospects to get Bauer. I anticipate they’ll unload Wood and Roark and their other rental players for minor leaguers. The end result being they’re farm system gets some new blood. And they trot out a dominant rotation in the NL Central for the rest of 2019 and 2020 with Castillo, Bauer, Gray, DeScladani and Mahle. Coupled with some very nice hitters: Suarez, Senzel, Winker and the Reds are now equipped to go toe to toe with anyone in the Central.

To keep the 8 pages going, I can retort to the first three: 1) Should the Brewers have spent $3.5 million of resources by picking up Lyles' option last winter? Yes, because they've already spent $900k on Petricka, 750k on Alex Wilson, plus whatever compensation they've paid to Jay Jackson, Donnie Hart, Burch Smith, Deolis Guerra, and Aaron Wilkerson. Those pitchers' ineffectiveness is at least part of the reason Lyles was re-acquired 2) Would the team have been better if they had? Most likely, as the trickle down effect on the pitching staff from having Houser start, would have been lessened, also Lyles' 4.81 FIP is better than any of those aforementioned relievers who have given the Brewers in excess of 60 mostly forgettable innings 3) Do I care they gave up Ponce, a 25 year old having success in his third year of AA prior to being Rule 5 eligible? Only slightly. Ponce does throw 95+ and has a K:BB ratio of 3:1 in the minor leagues. These type of trades are what lead to the acquisitions of Burch Smith, Alex Wilson, Jake Petricka in the first place. Lack of homegrown arms with talent to fill up the last few roster spots Ultimately, if the season rests on Lyles they are in trouble, but when one game can make the difference between making the post season or not, I don't think there's a real question that they should have kept Lyles to begin with.

You realize the Brewers didn't offer Molitor or Chris Bosio arbitration after the 1992 season? Meaning even if Bosio and Molitor were willing to play for Milwaukee on one year deals, they didn't want them back, and were willing to let their two best players from 1992 (and their highest paid and 4th highest paid) walk without even receiving draft compensation. It wasn't a bad decision from a poor baseball man; it was an edict from a bad owner to cut payroll.

A couple of things: First, no team wants to call a former first round pick up to the majors to get sporadic playing time as and for their first taste of the major leagues. So with Braun, Yelich, Cain and Gamel all under contract in 2020. Grisham isn’t going to see much playing time until after 2020 unless they have multiple lengthy injuries to their outfield. Second, can we stop the talk of benching Braun? His OPS is hovering around .800 and he’s 4th on the team with 15 homeruns. I think he gets criticized because at 35 years old he’s not the same player he was 2007-2012 anymore. The reality the Brewers might just luck out and wind up with Braun being reasonably productive for the entire length of his contract. Back to the topic at hand, if the Padres are willing to part with pitching in exchange for Grisham; I’d make that deal yesterday

Then again the top 4 outfielders are pretty much set in Milwaukee through at least 2020. So where is Grisham going to play in Milwaukee before 2021? It’d be cool to keep him but I doubt he ever is a regular starter for the Brewers given their OF situation and desire to compete for playoffs.

I don’t know how all the rules work but I believe he would be a six year minor league free agent if not on a 40 man roster

It’s just too bad they ended up giving away a player, to reacquire someone they released. That being said, they needed a starter with only Anderson and Davies healthy, so it may be the best option they could get today, and at least the team isn’t giving Wilkerson another shot

OK so first of all everyone that has said this so far (and will continue to on this thread)... Put yourself in December 2018 mindset. Assume that you at least understand the acquisition of Claudio. Remember that you had high hopes for Burnes. Please tell me who you are cutting from the opening day pitching staff so that you may pay Jordan Lyles $2.5 million dollars. I'll hang up and listen. Taylor Williams? Jacob Barnes? They both pitched game #2 of the season. Its just a bungle of the roster. I don't care that they let him go (even if I disagree with it based on who replaced him), but to then give away talent to get him back is silly.

Giving up a player for someone you willing let go 7 months ago...sheesh.

The Mets are a clown franchise or are they? Syndergaard, DeGrom, Stroman. Conforto, Alonso, McNeil. With some interesting complimentary players: Matz, Lugo, Rosario, Cano, Wilson Ramos, Frazier. The math may not support a run yet this year but they could be a monster in 2020. Then again their GM could do something drastic to blow all this out of the water before Wednesday.

Why would Moustakas take a 2 or 3 year deal? He’s 30 years old, it’s probably his last chance at a long term deal, so I’d imagine he’ll ask for 5 years and sign with the first team that offers him 4. Here’s a guy who has already left tens of millions of dollars on the table and has played for cut rate pay the least two years. I’m positive he will be looking for as much money/years as he can find with his third trip through free agency. Therefore, the strategy is to get him for 2-3 years, it’s just not going to happen unless his market bottoms out and he’s looking for a contract in Late January.

The only way it would work is if you flip Grandal and/or Moustakas for minor league players then package those players along with your own minor league players to add starting pitching and hope the impacts is: new starter > Moustakas and grandal. Risky, but if the decision makers believe the current roster make up isn’t good enough to get to the playoffs, why not try? You either fail to make it with Moustakas and Grandal or fail to make it with some new pitchers

Tanner Roark. It just makes a lot of sense. Reds are finished, Roark is a free agent to be. Very quietly has put up a 2.0 war, 4.15 FIP. Solid production without the pizzaz of Stroman, Bumgarner, Syndergaard etc.

Truism: Starting Pitching > Hitting. Therefore, I'd trade Hiura in a moment for a young major league ready starting pitcher with front of the rotation ability.

This is what I don't get. If they sold, who do the Brewers have that (and this is the key point) they are realistically willing to trade and is going to net them "young, controllable talent"? Last year they acquired Moustakas for Brett Phillips and Jorge Lopez. The Royals thought so highly of Phillips after they acquired him they went out and signed Billy Hamilton (!!) as a free agent. Moreover, the Royals have used six different players in the outfield this year on their way to 90+ losses, none of whom are the 26 year old Phillips. Jorge Lopez has actually pitched for the Royals this year to the tune of a 5.19 FIP, 1.52 WHIP, 6.37 ERA and -1.0 WAR. He will be 27 years old by opening day next year. Now, if those players were the "young, controllable, talent" the Brewers gave up to get Moustakas, what do you think they're likely to get back one year later with Moustakas earning even more in salary . Kind of the same deal with Grandal. If the play offs started today here would be the starting catchers on the play off teams: Brian McCann (.794 OPS), Kurt Suzuki (.789)/Yan Gomes (.617), Molina (.654), Contreras (.941), Russel Martin (.634)/ Will Smith (.999), Gary Sanchez (.807), Mitch Garver (1.032)/Castro (.851), Chirinos (.797), Roberto Perez (.789). Josh Phegley (.713). The Brewers don't have a history of including significant cash in trades and doubt they would do so now in order to move Grandal. Therefore two teams that could most use an upgrade at catcher, Oakland and Cleveland, are likely out due to finances. The Cubs, Cardinals, Yankees, Twins have no need for Grandal. That leaves the Dodgers and the Nationals. Will Smith (the catcher) is the future in Los Angeles and they ain't exactly struggling despite the catching situation, so any interest they may have would most likely be described as "tepid". That pretty much leaves the Nationals as the last team standing. If there isn't another team after Grandal, why would the Nationals give away significant "young controllable talent" and take on 6.5 million dollars in salary to get him? They likely can't trade Jhoulys Chacin now that he's on the DL with an oblique. Albers could be traded, but again, the likely return on Albers would require a pretty liberal definition of "young, controllable talent". With no minor league players about to knock down the door to the major leagues you could say the remaining players on the 25 man roster are most valuable playing in Milwaukee, not being shipped elsewhere. Even with the team this year, I'm sure the front office isn't ready to turn the page and break up the core of the team that won 96 games just last season.

As a fan, I think these type of lists are useful in a couple of ways. First, it sort of suggests how likely it is for a team, like the Brewers, to improve themselves internally with difference making talent. This is fluid also there are impact players in the major leagues who weren’t top 100 prospects. That being said I wouldn’t count on the Brewers to improve at the major league level in the immediate future by going to their minor league system. Secondly, it illustrates the overall quality and projections of a team’s minor league system compared to all the other teams. Of course the Brewers system is thin, they already traded away their next generation of players; they haven’t drafted near the top of the draft that often, and they haven’t drafted particularly well with the selections they have made.

Moustakas is their second best hitter and an All Star. Shaw hit under .175 for the first three months of the season before being optioned to the minors, but yeah interchangeable.... 9 million, 6 million it still meaningless because no contender on the surface are in that dire of a need for a catcher, and taking on a rental player who is the 4th highest paid catcher kind of smells like the return would be minimal

Two of our top 3 or 4 position players are free agents after the season. By break up their team I mean trade away major league players with team control. Nonetheless, I think they keep Moustakas and Grandal. By trading Moutakas you’re throwing in the towel on 2019. While the front office has to be pragmatic; I think they’ll roll the bones and hope to get lucky before throwing in the towel by trading Moustakas Without a contending team in dire need of a catcher and his 18 million dollar salary there isn’t much point to trading Grandal. The Brewers aren’t going to pay a team to take Grandal’s salary and, moreover, if a team is taking on close to 9 million dollars in salary they’re not going to send the Brewers anything of note.