Jopal78

The thing you fail to repeatedly see in all of this is: the difference between even a .740-.750 OPS outfielder and Renfroe at .790-.800 is not worth the difference in price between $700K and 11 million dollars. In a team like the Brewers with limited financial resources, tremendous outfield depth in AAA, that's a pretty big chunk of cash for a player who is ok, but is and has been at his ceiling as a .790-.800 OPS outfielder. Since they have 4 players in AAA who most likely could step in and play competently at the MLB level; one way to become more talented without trading away a key major league player or minor league depth is to reallocate the money they would otherwise pay Renfroe as a portion of an offer to a free agent hitter like Jose Abreu who could play 1B or DH, where the Brewers do not have depth. As for Benintendi, you should read more carefully what I wrote. First of all, I don't think the numbers would work anyways. But if if they did nobody would be blocked as Benintendi would play LF, Yelich to DH, Abreu to 1B and two outfield spots open for their young players. I could be wrong but I believe the Brewers will look to become more balanced and move away from having a collection of players with big time power and poor on base skills. Abreu fits that bill, if they could afford two free agents, Benintendi would as well. I'll largely disregard your comments about Suter and Houser except that the Brewers likely won't non-tender either of them. I assume both are in their plans of 2023, but if they are not, they would have zero trouble trading either or both of them. As for Feliciano, he's been in the organization since 2016, and has been on the 40 man roster since Nov. of '20; it's basically now or never for him with the Brewers.

I think Abreu+Frelick produces more than Renfroe would in '23. Christian Vazquez is better offensively and defensively than Caratini but is a few years older...so there is some risk there but Vazquez with Feliciano as the #2 can't be worse than Narvaez/Caratini. Would like to be better at 3B than a Peterson/Brosseau platoon, but absent a trade it's not going to happen. I also am not sure if they would have Turang break in as a utility player, or fill that spot with a bargain bin veteran so Turang can play every day in AAA. One other option would be to move on from Renfroe, Tellez, Suter. Stick with Caratini, Abreu at 1B, Yelich at DH, and Benintendi in LF, but keeping below 130 would be iffy. ? Christian Vazquez ($7.50M) 1B: Rowdy Tellez ($5.50M) 2B: Luis Urias ($4.50M) 3B: Jace Peterson ($2.50M) SS: Willy Adames ($9.50M) LF: Christian Yelich ($22.00M) CF: Garrett Mitchell ($0.70M) RF: Sal Frelick ($0.7M) DH: Jose Abreu ($18.0M) 4th OF: Tyrone Taylor ($0.7M) Utility: Mike Brosseau ($1.00M) Utility: Brice Turang ($0.70M) Backup ? Mario Feliciano ($0.70M) SP1: Corbin Burnes ($11.50M) SP2: Brandon Woodruff ($11.00M) SP3: Freddy Peralta ($3.50M) SP4: Eric Lauer ($5.00M) SP5: Adrian Houser ($3.50M) RP: Brent Suter ($3.00M) RP: Peter Strzelecki ($.7M) RP: Matt Bush ($2.00M) RP: Trevor Gott ($1.40M) RP: Hoby Milner ($1.00M) RP: Devin Williams ($4.00M) RP: Aaron Ashby ($1.20M) RP: Jake Cousins ($.7M) Payroll is 5.77% under budget

All I’m saying is, it would be a pretty bad trip through free agency for Mitch Haniger if he had to settle for a 5 million dollar payday. These proposals are fun, but there’s no probablility to a hypothesis where a quality veteran hitter signs somewhere for less than 10 million, and I think that number will track even higher this off season due to a weaker free agent class. And yes, the difference in production in my opinion between Mitchell/Frelick and Hunter Renfroe isn’t worth 11 million. The Brewers would improve their team more rolling with one of those rookies in RF, moving on from Renfroe and adding using that 11 million as part of an offer for a DH/1B like Jose Abreu, than simply running it back with Renfroe in ‘23.

Not a chance.

Haniger would get at least three times what you have as a hypothetical salary.

My bad, it was Nate82. Nate82..Brewcrew82... you see the similarity. Anyways, Hiura couldn't get off the bench on a mediocre team in '22, obviously his adjustments whatever they were, didn't cure what's wrong with him. But more importantly, Oakland is just not in a place in the success cycle where it makes any sense for them to trade pre-arbitration eligible pitching for hitters, especially flawed ones like Hiura. As with any team in the midst of a long rebuild, I'm sure they would trade Puk in the right deal, but it won't be for Hiura and certainly not straight up. As for Treinen it's simple, if he's worth ten million as a free agent (as you propose) why wouldn't the Dodgers simply exercise their below market club option for 8 million and either trade him or keep him. Either way they would come out better than they would if they declined his option.

I like the creativity.... but with the Hader trade the Brewers just learned in '22 it is extremely difficult to "shuffle the deck" trading away a star player and get better at the same time. The weak spot is there is not away for the Brewers to get better that involves trading an indisputable ace, top of the rotation starting pitcher like Corbin Burnes. No matter what comes out of Stearns's mouth at the media podium: trading Burnes = rebuilding. Moreover, the Brewers owner isn't a dope, when they don't have the horses to compete payroll gets taken down to the bone. ( see '16, '`17 et al).

Treinen has a club option for '23 for 8 million. Not likely the Dodgers decline an 8 million dollar option if Treinen is worth 10 million as a free agent. As mentioned to you before in other threads, the Athletics wouldn't trade Puk for Hiura straight up. They are not in a position to win '23 so there is not much reason for them to take on salary (Hiura in arb, Puk pre-arb) and then trade away the player with the most team control remaining in the process.

But the bar is set a bit higher than that isn't it? Hader wasn't just a "major contributor" to the Brewers, he's arguably the best relief pitcher in the game, the best left handed reliever, a perennial All-Star with multiple sets of hardware as the best reliever in his league. Without a doubt, the return for Hader in the short run blew up in Stearns' face like a loaded cigar. Given the initial outcome, for this trade to ever be anything more than a thick black mark on Stearns' permanent record they probably need one if not both of Ruiz and Gasser to become more than just "major contributors".

It’s not this hard. No doubt, Keston brings dingers against right handed pitching. Yet there obviously is something about his game that, the undoubtedly smart baseball people running the Brewers believe, trumps the right handed dingers to such an extent they go with a different player. It’s a damn shame it’s the third week of September and no journalist has asked what that might be.

BINGO!

Does it really matter what happened in May and July they were in first place the entire time? The facts are since mid August, Keston Hiura has 38 plate appearances at DH, McCutchen has 34. But wait there's more.... of McCutchen's 34 PAs as the DH, 19 of those PAs were in games where Hiura was also in the line up at a different position. Therefore since mid-August, Hiura has been in there as DH most of the time. Moreover, of the 15 PAs McCutchen has had at DH (without Hiura in the lineup) since mid-August, McCutchen was in there against Julio Urias (lefty), Andrew Haney (lefty), Drew Smyly (lefty). The reality is, McCutchen is rarely the DH anymore against RHP with Hiura also on the bench. I'm sure this will be dismissed as anecdotal evidence. However, as long as Hiura continues to homer at a hall of fame pace, he probably will be in there in some capacity the vast majority of the time.

Right. Taking 3 out of the final 4 from the Cards would put Milwaukee 4 GB. Next, the Brewers have 2 extra games remaining than St. Louis. Theoretically if the Brewers won them both it would put them 3 GB. Thus, out playing St. Louis by three games over the final 30 seems doable. No less importantly taking 3 of the final 4 against the Cardinals would give the Brewers the season series (10-9) and the tie break for the Division.

Right. Taking 3 out of the final 4 from the Cards would put Milwaukee 4 GB. Next, the Brewers have 2 extra games remaining than St. Louis. Theoretically if the Brewers won them both it would put them 3 GB. Thus, out playing St. Louis by three games over the final 30 seems doable. No less importantly taking 3 of the final 4 against the Cardinals would give the Brewers the season series (10-9) and the tie break for the Division.

I think they have as good a shot as any at Wild Card #2 and Wild Card #3 (especially with their best starter Zach Wheeler, and two best bullpen pitchers (Knebel and Dominguez) on the DL. The Brewers are now 6 games out of first, with only 4 remaining against St. Louis. Both teams have just 13 games remaining against winning teams but the Brewers have 39 total games remaining to the Cardinals' 37. The Brewers chances for the Division for all intents and purposes hang on the remaining four games with the Cardinals. Short of taking at least 3 of 4 of those remaining games they don't have a realistic path to the Division title.

I think they have as good a shot as any at Wild Card #2 and Wild Card #3 (especially with their best starter Zach Wheeler, and two best bullpen pitchers (Knebel and Dominguez) on the DL. The Brewers are now 6 games out of first, with only 4 remaining against St. Louis. Both teams have just 13 games remaining against winning teams but the Brewers have 39 total games remaining to the Cardinals' 37. The Brewers chances for the Division for all intents and purposes hang on the remaining four games with the Cardinals. Short of taking at least 3 of 4 of those remaining games they don't have a realistic path to the Division title.

You’re probably going to get your wish; because when better then 50 percent of a player’s hits go over the fence for homers (like Hiura this month); they’re likely going to play every night. Hiura August: 29 plate appearances, 8 hits, zero doubles, zero triples, 5 homers, one walk and 11 Ks.

You might be correct that they wrote Hiura off, but it’s August and they’ve been struggling to win ball games for the better part of a month. All these guys from the front office to the dugout to the players know heads tend to roll when teams with big expectations crash and burn. The Brewers haven’t crashed yet but they’re definitely losing altitude fast. As such, the money isn’t a factor if it ever was.

Sounds like you need to have a conversation with Craig about the definition of better, because he disagrees with you, and I don't think he got stupid overnight.

Those last four words some it up. These are all professionals who are paid to try to win baseball games, its lunacy to suggest a manager would subvert his team because he doesn't like a player or player's style. If Hiura hit .375 with 50 homeruns he could fail to run out fly balls, insult Counsell's wife and still hit cleanup every night. In this instance, the manager himself stated he'd like to get Hiura in the games more but it would mean moving McCutchen to CF, and to date he's believed in terms of overall strength McCutchen (DH) + Taylor/Davis > Hiura (DH) + McCutchen.

Ha ha. Yep, Counsell is racking up losses and damaging his reputation as a manager because he'd doesn't like a player. By that rationale he wouldn't like 90% of the players on the team because Counsell had zero pop (.344 slg).

If you read the quotes from Counsell, it hasn't simply been which bat is better. He believes McCutchen at DH and Taylor/Davis in CF is a better configuration than Hiura at DH and McCutchen in CF. Hard to argue his logic is wrong, maybe the anger should be directed towards the front office for brining in McCutchen in the first place, although given what Hiura showed in 2020 and 2021, it was prudent to have another option at DH.

Probably because Mejia is 25, a pitcher, and someone who they thought well enough of to trade for in the off-season. Coming off a suspension he hasn’t pitched in months so he needs to get stretched out. As for Reetz, the Narvaez injury and Severino DFA goofed up their depth, but Omar is going to be back on Saturday, I believe Severino is with AAA as a non-roster player, so they don’t necessarily need Reetz as much as they did his roster spot. I don’t follow the minor leagues close enough to know, has Cousins pitched in back to back games? Coming off an elbow injury I’m sure they want to ramp him up slowly but he needs to be able to go in back to back days to be in this bullpen. Probably one of their September adds.

Probably because Mejia is 25, a pitcher, and someone who they thought well enough of to trade for in the off-season. Coming off a suspension he hasn’t pitched in months so he needs to get stretched out. As for Reetz, the Narvaez injury and Severino DFA goofed up their depth, but Omar is going to be back on Saturday, I believe Severino is with AAA as a non-roster player, so they don’t necessarily need Reetz as much as they did his roster spot. I don’t follow the minor leagues close enough to know, has Cousins pitched in back to back games? Coming off an elbow injury I’m sure they want to ramp him up slowly but he needs to be able to go in back to back days to be in this bullpen. Probably one of their September adds.

Dinelson Lamet > Jason Alexander > Trevor Kelley. I suppose it's water under the bridge at this point, but golly they could sure use Lamet as that long-man right now.