True Blue Brew Crew

Valerio Santos

Pitching has started to turn the corner a little, but it still needs to get better sooner than later for there to be any October to pitch in. Just looks tough for a playoff spot. I don't have a lot of faith in Miami and San Fran keeping their division from padding their win totals. Sooner rather than later would be great definitely. But given it's May 1st, June looks like it could end up being right on schedule for Jimmy's return to Milwaukee, thus making you both right.

Yes. You go into a game with a plan, not a rigid schedule. The old and still widely used plan is to get 6-7 from a starter and then finish with a set-up man followed by a closer. A new way of game planning would be to plan on two starter-like pitchers and one 1-2 inning reliever. But on any given day plans go awry no matter which model you deploy.

I continually used both terms "piggyback" and "tandem" because I honestly haven't figured out yet which they're more likely to use. To me tandem means pairing two specific pitchers together on a set schedule. I don't think that route makes any sense. Piggyback to me means following one starter with another. That seems in-line with what I'd expect to see but even that's too rigid, imo. If a starter goes a solid 4 and runs into trouble in the 5th with a series of big LH bats coming up, I think Hader should be in consideration to come in at that point. Another starter-like pitcher can finish the game. Under that scenario, neither term really applies. But make no mistake, going into every game with the plan being to use 2 starter-like pitchers, is a departure from simply having multi-inning relievers. And it doesn't have to unfold as starter, starter, reliever. You can jumble that up any way is most effective matchup-wise. (S-R-S, R-S-S, S-S-R, etc.) With Peralta back and Burnes and Nelson eventually to follow, the Brewers could most certainly start going into each game planning to deploy two pitchers averaging around 3-4 innings each time out. And sometimes one might go 5 while the other goes 2. Sometimes one could go 5, the other 4 and they get through using just two pitchers. And sometimes the starter could go less than the starter-like pitcher who follows. Again, these are just averages. But that usage is certainly unprecedented. Haudricourt just tweeted about it this morning. The Brewers do not want to have their pitchers face a lineup 3 times very often. They simply MUST supplement the staff with more starter-like pitchers to do that. That's why I've been expecting some form of pairing. No, not a rigid pairing. Knowing what they were up to and knowing that they saw the same data, it was obvious they were doing everything they could to avoid a 3rd trip through. Yet they're still trying to get by with too many 1 inning guys and using the shuttle system for fresh arms. They're going half-in with the plan which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Because then you're relying on lesser arms by forcing yourself to use depth that may or not be there. Being forced to bring up a lesser arm just because they're fresh isn't a sound long-term strategy. It's time to go all-in and fill the staff with 8-9 starters. And eventually up to 10.

How about all? One appearance is a start, and then the next could just as easily be long relief.

Think about how much you could mess with advance scouting if you no longer had a set 5-man rotation? Your starter could be a surprise right up until game day. Sure a handful could be ruled out by the opponent by gauging usage in the past day or two, but you really could do more to avoid using starters against teams they've historically had terrible numbers against.

It really is about Peralta. His reinsertion into the rotation means they need to either waste someone in short relief who deserves better or start getting creative. The return of Burnes and Nelson does the same. And it's going to be fascinating to watch.

I never really was on a pre-planned piggy-back system. Those words were assigned to me by others. I'm anti-rigidity. I said it will look like a tandem or a piggy-back and I certainly thought it was coming, but people can call it whatever they want. 2 pitchers not only don't have to be assigned together, they shouldn't. You can play matchups series to series, game to game if every long man is independent the rest. I had the sense the Brewers would pair pitchers together because Adam McCalvy flat-out said to expect it in 2019 soon after last season concluded. And it still might happen. But I'd much rather see them play matchups and let game flow dictate how long people stay in and when they'll be available next.

C'mon we're going down the hole again. I talked about 2 pitchers combining to cover 9 as the new complete game. Nothing said about it happening very often. But you don't need it to either. Not when you have a 12-13 man staff with 9 or 10 starter-like pitchers on it. Having 2 guys cover 9 innings is far from a necessity with a staff constructed like that. Keep in mind, we have a great example tonight. Guerra doesn't now need four days off before he appears again.

Today is good proof why it is almost impossible. You would need two guys to have absolute dominating games and basically be trouble free. First guy struggles and you go to the second guy...then he is in too early and a third guy at minimum will eventually be needed. Why would you be so insistent on using two guys when you usually have really good bullpen arms? It just doesn’t make a ton of sense and that is why in today’s game of going against the grain you still have normal starters. Can guys like Guerra go 3 innings? Sure, but planning to piggy back? No...other than if you know your main guy will be limited on a pitch count. You aren’t going to intentionally pair guys long term. Slow down. Let's not misconstrue what I said. I said the typical blueprint would be 3 guys just like what happened tonight. Two starter-like pitchers cover 7-8 innings between them and a Hader-like pitcher wraps things up. I merely said the dream scenario going forward was simply using two. And it would be dependent on how big the lead was. And having two long pitchers covering 9 innings is far from an "almost impossible" task.

Dangit. Someday.

Not sure if it happened last year but I'd sure like to see it a lot more going forward. They have the pieces to do it. Just need to get them all back on the MLB roster.

Could it come on the very night that I wished it? Will Counsell let Junior go 3? C'mon Guerra, take this thing home.

I'm not being that rigid. I'm just talking about my perfect game that I look forward to unfolding someday. The Brewers would only ever deploy 2 starters to split 9 innings in a game they had a comfortable lead. The most common blueprint once they embrace the idea of utilizing starters in the pen and vise-versa is 3-5 innings from an IOG, followed by 2-4 innings by another starter-like pitcher, with a Hader-like pitcher locking down the final 1-2 innings. If the lead is 3 or 4 going into the 8th, hopefully they are comfortable with someone like Guerra covering the final two. That's a common scenario I see going forward. I'm just most excited about a game which 2 pitchers cover 9 and neither goes deeply through the batting order a 3rd time through. I love watching a pitcher throw a complete game as much as anyone else. I also have come to grips that it is damn near impossible the way Counsell is risk averse. So for me 2 starters teaming up to go nine will be the "new" complete game.

We're in total agreement. I understood pulling Burnes and Woodruff after 2-3 dominant innings in the postseason. I wouldn't agree with it now. An ideal deployment right now would be covering 9 innings with 2 guys traditionally thought of as starters. I've never been a fan of using 6 bullets to cover 9 innings. It worked last year because the Brewers pen was so deep. This year it's Russian Roulette.

Agreed. Other teams are doing the same thing. The Brewers clearly saw the value of pulling starters after 3 dominant postseason innings. No, they can't copy that exact blueprint in the regular season. But they CAN seek out similar advantages by getting creative like Tampa is. The Brewers seem to be dipping their toes in the water. It seems like just a matter of time before they dive in.

NOT SUSTAINABLE!!!! Apparently Tampa isn't afraid to get creative.

This lineup gonna get good real quick once Hiura gets the call.

Parris Campbell is going to be a star. Hoping like heck he's there at #44

Whether starting or in the pen, please just have Peralta, Woodruff, and Burnes in Milwaukee. It seems foolish to have mediocre short guys taking up major league spots. Especially when we have all of these multi-inning options to cover all these innings that the club is struggling to cover.

I'm not either believe it or not. But I'd much rather have that than to continue to have them trot out a bunch of mediocre 1 inning guys like Petricka Wilson, Albers, Barnes, Williams, etc. What it comes down to is this... Soon enough the Brewers rotation options are going to be Chacin, Davies, Anderson, Gio, Nelson, Guerra, Burnes, Woodruff, and Nelson. Even without getting crazy with tandems or piggybacks, which I still think is a ways off unfortunately, you've got 9 guys for 5 spots. Guerra seems to be thriving in the long pen role. Let's add 3 more like him. I'd rather have all 9 of these guys on the Brewers 12-man staff than have 3 or 4 of them starting games in San Antonio. Especially if it means the aforementioned mediocre short guys are still around. On top of those multi-inning pitchers, you round out the staff with Hader, Claudio, and Jeffress. And then you've got plenty of coverage when your starters don't go 6 or when you purposely want to keep their outing short. As far as who are the "starters" and who goes to the pen, just give me the 5 who have the best history of eating innings effectively thus far.

Of course but they're extremely rare and cost a ton. It doesn't stop you find trying to develop one but at the same time you don't throw your arms up in the air and say we just can't compete because we don't have a horse who can go 7+ every time out.

Yes definitely. There's no doubt I erred somewhere along the way in the way I stated the message. I have to own that. My words were often misconstrued as well. Even what I just wrote now. They're obviously not going to rid themselves of Jeffress, Albers, Wilson, etc overnight. And they're all 1 inning type guys. But if the Brewers want to avoid the ugly numbers pitchers post the 3rd time through, they're going to have to stack the staff with starter types and deploy them in unique ways. But I've said all along it would take time. I did erroneously predict we'd see more tandem type usage out of the gates this year but now it's starting to look like it will happen sooner rather than later. If any or all of the young 3 guns get shifted to the pen, they'll be able to get really creative.

Reading the comments today after the Gio signing I'm struggling to understand why there has been so much consternation over what I've been expecting / calling for. That is, stacking the 12 man staff with what are traditionally considered starters and having them used all over the weekly 54-65 innings a team pitches. Today I see people glad another starter was added so a we can shift long men to the pen. Well, that's exactly what I've been arguing for. Get rid of the 1 inning and 1 out specialists and have a staff full of guys who can start one day, give you 3-4 good innings out of the gate and then pitch a couple innings three days later. You'd truly be able to play matchups at all times rather than the current model of "it's Davies turn in the rotation".