UpandIn

I'm inherently skeptical of the un-named sources in the industry when it's a Jeff Passan... That seems like too obvious of a thing to first start coming out 3 years after an injury that ended his second straight MVP season in a failed attempt to try and explain why he just feel off a cliff. I also have friends who work in or around the industry. One who works for Bally telling me Khris Middleton was coming back Gm 5 of the Celtics series, then telling me everyone on the team was questioning his toughness. I'm pretty sure that person just wasn't privy to that information at all because their job in no way is related to the health of the players. Now...that's not to say Tigeruppercut is wrong or that he doesn't know reputable people in the front offices of Major League Baseball(though it'd really have to be the Brewers or how would they know how hard he is or isn't working right now?)...I'll just say I take these types of insults with a grain of salt. You're really kinda insulting who he is as a man and as a person. So I need more than an anonymous person repeating what other anonymous people say before I'll put any credibility into that. With Sheets, we HEARD people questioning his lack of commitment to his conditioning. We saw a very different personality. I don't see that from Yelich. Again, doesn't mean it's not that...I just don't see it).

This is why I'm pretty confident that his injury has just been his back injury getting progressively worse. It was an issue when he was 25 years old. In 2020, it appeared he was still mostly the same player, just hitting into incredibly poor luck in a small sample size, but still hitting for power. 2021, more back issues, missing time. The power is gone and now....we are where we are.

Imagine THIS Christian Yelich is a FA. What's he going to get? MAYBE 2/20 with a 3rd year option. So 25M guaranteed. There's no WAY a team is taking back ~180M in contract obligations for a year and a half of Hader...who himself will cost ~17M next year. I really don't even want to think about what it'd cost to unload Yelich contract at this point. I'm pretty sure it'd be part of a Burnes/Woodruff trade and you'd still have to eat a pretty significant chunk and take a whole lot less back in terms of prospects. I think the best way to proceed is just...hope Yelich can figure something out. Maybe try something different with his back and then hope he can get going again in some way or just be happy with what you've got. The horse is out of the barn. Unless he suddenly figures it out, it's a sunken cost we've just got to deal with. It sucks, but the only way forward is to try and keep churning out young, talented, valuable controllable players. We can compete while paying Yelich 26M a year(22 and then deferred money)...it's just gonna be difficult.

But he didn't get paid 80M. He got paid ~65M. And it's 11.6 WAR per Bref 8.4 per Fangraphs We got pretty lucky he opted in before opting out in 2020 or we'd be on the hook for another year(likely why the Brewers were willing to wait to DFA him).

It sounds like he did try to acquire a few bats. Drury, Joc Peterson, Josh Bell and...even Joey Gallo(who I was not a particular fan of, but nonetheless). I wonder if the Reds weren't trying to tax the Brewers a bit to acquire a bat that fit so well as Drury did. It's hard to really form an opinion without knowing exactly what they wanted...but I will say I'm not a fan of trading away LA Bonus Babies before you really get a feel for what they can do. The chances you trade away a Tatis Jr(an example that's suddenly been made to look much worse, but I think the point remains) is very low, but...they still got a pretty highly regarded SS/2B who was in his first year of full season ball. Do you risk giving up a guy like Hedbert Perez with his upside? Even with the very long odds that he ever becomes a productive player? Would that even have been enough? I don't know. Stears seems more comfortable trading away players with higher floors and lower ceilings(Alex Binelas types for example). https://clutchpoints.com/rumor-the-2-former-all-star-hitters-that-the-brewers-looked-to-acquire-at-mlb-trade-deadline-revealed/ As for David Peralta and Tyler Naquin, sure. They could have provided...something. Both are really bad vs lefties, but have been able to hit righties a little. Pretty similar to Keston Hiura but lower strikeout rates.

That seems right to me. Good arm side run and late explosion on that Fastball. I can't tell what the velo is, but it looks like it might have a little of that Freddy Peralta deception to it. Looks like he hides it pretty well. The breaking ball, looks like one is a slider that can be really good at time(of course we're seeing highlights here)...but good, sharp, late movement. And then I thought I saw a curve in there. One that stayed up in the zone. Probably not where he's gonna want to throw that, but it was effective. And then the change, I thought I saw a couple that looked good. Mostly FB/SL in those two. I'd love to see an actual scouting report on him. I'm guessing that FB is in the 92-94 range. If he can add a couple MPH(or maybe he's already got them as I'm just guessing)...he could be a really nice prospect who should start in AA next year and from then....you're right on the doorstep.

Yes. The Dodgers make a ton of money with ~400M in TV money each year. The Yankees make a ton of money with at least that, AND a whole helluva lot more in tickets revenue. I don't recall when it's been studied or reported that the Brewers are making a "ton" of money. Even still, that's not the reason they failed to get Drury, Bell...and I forget who the 3rd player they'd gone after but were unable to acquire at the deadline. Money wasn't the reason. It was almost certainly not wanting to give up the prospects that are the lifeblood of this team in order to get an impact player in return. Bell was part of the Soto deal, so as I said in another thread...I can't imagine the Nats holding a firm line there during negotiations and saying, 'well, if you don't want to include Bell, we can't do Hassell.' So that's just messy in trying to separate what it would have cost. Joey Gallo...who's been discussed here, cost the Dodgers a 50 FV type arm. I wanted a bat badly as well. I also did NOT want to see them give up Turang, the 3 OFers who are in AAA, Chourio or one of our top 2 pitching prospects(which they ended up doing anyway, though they got another back). So I've gotta ask, what was the trade they should have made? You don't just force a trade just to make at trade, right? Last year, Escobar was available, the Brewers went out and got him. Who was that player this year?

Huh...I could have sworn I've seen people calling out David Stearns the last month on this site(at least it's felt like a month since the deadline). Yelich CERTAINLY gets called out. Who exactly is not "allowing" you to do this? They also paid Lo Cain 65M over 4 years and a week and got back 12 WAR. Not REALLY a "blunder," in my opinion. Edit-I'd also LOVE to go back to my much younger self, watching the Brewers trade away star player with seemingly no plan in place, losing 90-100 games a year...with a 20 year high being a 10 game winning streak that would come to an end vs the Reds that would bring the Brewers to the staggering heights of...58-75...I'd love to be able to tell him, "don't worry about it, in the future when the Brewers are slumping, they'll call 61-53 a "dumpster fire."

I'd like to see Ecerg, Brown, Luna, Chirino, Monasterio, Walters and of course Harris back. But particularly Ecerg, Brown, Walters and Harris.

Well...I'll go put 500 down on the Brewers to make the post-season then. They will get in.

I genuinely can't think of a more irrelevant talking point. I could point out all of the reasons, but I'd have to talk about politics to explain why that's such a terrible comparison, but I really don't want to do that. I'll just say one is taking someone's opinions about a particularly man, one that has shown he's an outlier as it pertains to all political polling vs another predictive model that takes numbers and nothing more. Not phone calls and onions.

Trevor Rosenthal is also due to start a rehab assignment tomorrow. Ruiz, Turang, Frelick and then obviously Jace. All guys who could contribute down the stretch. Then Houser, Cousins, Topa and Rosenthal? I'm still entirely confident this team wins the division, and if we can get the Matt Bush that we've seen with Williams, Rosenthal of 2020, Rogers and the starting rotation, I'm really shocked at how many people are giving up on this team. This BP has a chance to be absolutely dominant. The rotation, dominant. The lineup...well, it looks like crap, but it's still somehow among the league leaders in many categories. I know 2 things. 1-We've played our best baseball down the stretch 2-When you've got power arms who can rack up K's in high leverage situations, you've got a chance vs everyone. Oh, and 3-The favorites are almost never the teams that end up smoking cigars and drinking in the clubhouse after the WS is over. I'm not betting on a WS or making it to the NLCS, but...we've got the horses and there's ALWAYS someone who steps up on a WS team that nobody expected. We've got about a dozen players who could reasonably be that man. It could also be informative to go back and read the comments from around the time of the Adames trade. It was near universally crushed on this board. Because we'd LOST the Urias/Lauer trade so badly, we had to double back down and trade away a promising pitcher for another shot at finding our SS. I'd say a couple months later that narrative was VERY different. I think the, "this isn't a contender," narrative could be very different in 2 months time as well.

Yelich and Hirua both came back with virtually identical approaches. Yelich in particular. I went back from '18 and '19 swings and lined them up with '20/'21 swings and I couldn't find any difference. I actually only did this because it looked to me like he was pulling off the ball a bit...but that just wasn't the case. He'd pulled off ever so slightly in his 2 MVP years...and did the same thing the following two years. I'm of the school of thought that you should be continually trying to get better...but I don't see it in how they approach the game(a difference that is, one way or the other). Well...that "coaching," or those tweaks took Yelich from a nice young player to the best hitter in baseball over a 2 year period. I don't really see that here. Yelich launch angle is killing him. He needs to find a way to lift the ball. With Hiura, he was a rookie. I think two things happened. He hit 38 HRs and the league started pitching him differently. Well, it's a different sport and I'm not a Pettine fan, but that wasn't really a scheme issue. That was a talent issue. One that's been rectified the last 3 drafts and FA classes.... You...you kinda lost me here. They've gone through years of development with HS teams and the Brewers are generally pretty good at leaving players alone...other than encouraging them to lean into their strengths. We've seen pitcher after pitcher come through Milwaukee, decide to scrap a pitch, rely more heavily on another and then take off. Beyond that, just starting from the draft(which is a long way from the Yelich discussion) they tend to let a player fail before they start to tinker with their swing. But to be honest...I don't really have a clue what you're talking about with the " And...wasn't it the Brewers analytics that was credited with getting the most out of Yelich in '18 and '19? He got more aggressive and was ambushing pitches early in the count, looking for balls he could lift? At least that's how Yelich and company told it at the time. But to be honest...I don't really understand what you're talking about with the "they are compared to a fictitious better hitter/pitcher and then coerced, forced, induced to change so that they fit that other mold. Launch angle, launch angle blah." What "system" do you suppose the Brewers are just throwing in all their draft picks or...anyone in and who are these fictitious players they're using as models? Didn't they JUST draft a player with a highly unorthodox swing in Brown Jr and say that as it works for him, they'll leave him alone? Weimer? Mitchell was another one who gets a lot of GBs and they haven't tried to change his swing significantly. Seems like they'll let a player develop and if he has some hiccups or struggle, THAT'S when they come in...being as their Major League Coaches, and they'll work with them to get back on track. I'm just kinda...confused. Yelich and Hiura's struggle can be attributed to them taking their success and trying to build off it...and then coaches meddling too much, and then trying to turn everyone into the same player. I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting, but it sounds a whole lot like when a player develops, it's because of the years prior to the big leagues or to coaching where they developed their swings...and then when they are coached, it's because they're all coached to be the same player. None of it really jives with what we're seeing.

Paintball, a sports complex...hotels, apartments. I'm quite sure the city would be willing to work with the organization in an effort to replace the ugly old empty factory buildings and replace them with SOMETHING. I don't want to go through the misery the Cubs fans are going through from ownership spending all their money on real estate, but...this was the plan once upon a time. 22 years old, I was all about Water Street and the Deer District. 35 and I want to take my Nieces, Nephews and kids down to maybe a more family friendly environment. It was the plan at one point. An investment into the city, even if it doesn't mean a 230M dollar payroll like the Padres have, it seems unlikely to hurt. I also understand what OWBC is saying, that you can oversaturate the market to the point of not just diminishing returns...but no returns, or you're taking one thriving area and you're taking away from it. But...as I said, I think a different, family friendly, more residential approach rather than a lively bar scene may be a good idea(though...it's Wisconsin, of course you'd have Bars).

They wouldn't have to copy the Deer District. Again, they could have commercial real estate with some nice, high end apartments. There are a million other things they could put in there that would generate revenue. It doesn't have to be exclusively about Restaurants and Bars, though Wisconsin has proven you can build them anywhere. Hell, build a water park near the stadium. Something like Kalahari in the Dells for people who want to spend a couple days in the area and go to a couple games.

No, he's locked up for 2 more years after this one. That's why they gave up...maybe the biggest prospect haul ever for him. And the Pads payroll is up to 230M. So they're not exactly small market teams these days.

Ruiz's clock was only ticking while he's up. He's got...I don't know, 30 days of service time. It's not like College Athletics where the time starts from when you enroll and keeps ticking no matter what. I do agree though, lets see what he can do. I suspect that're waiting for the rosters to expand, but we need help now. As for Suter, I think there's a good chance he's not brought back next year anyway, and Lamet was at least worth taking a flier on, so maybe he's not the first player I'd get rid of...but he was pretty high up on that list. I wonder if Suter being such a big clubhouse guy played a role. They just traded Hader and didn't want to get rid of Suter to take a flier on this guy who hasn't thrown well. But I can't find any justification for Jake McGee.

When people started talking about sabermetrics and devaluing BA, my impression was the intent was to try and show that just because someone like Rod Carew is hitting .320/.370/.330 he wasn't a better hitter than Joe Morgan hitting .290/.420/.435. To put things into context. That Batting Average was over-valued. Not that it held no value. Now I see people using it like W/L for a pitcher, a stat that should basically just be thrown out. I think we've maybe swung a bit too far the other way. When asked what the single biggest problem with Baseball is right now, Theo Epstein(pretty smart baseball guy) pointed out the 56 year low in Batting Average. Or it's been 3 years and he's just not that good in CF? I'm skeptical the Yankees were just throwing Gallo out in LF/RF despite him being so clearly superior to Judge defensively. Maybe it's just Gallo got bigger(~220 in 2019, ~250 now) and he doesn't cover as much ground out there. My problem really isn't with him playing CF so much as I just don't think it's productive to add another all or nothing bat like Gallo to this lineup. I wouldn't have wanted to give up Ethan Small for him or Mendez or a player in that 10-15 range either. I understand why you do...generally a good enough OBP and he hits for power, but when you've already got a lineup that's full of players hitting in the low .200s, I'd prefer someone who can actually make a little more contact.

Yeah, I saw that he was practicing his pass pro sets from what appeared to be a RT position with the right leg back. That COULD tell you something. But I'll be more interested to see when he's actually lining up with the 1st team and what position they have him at. "Pick a position and work on it," is the most Packers to Elgton Jenkins statement I've ever heard though. 'Eh...yeah, just pick one. You'll probably play 'em all anyway.' I'm old enough to remember when fans were angry about them moving TJ Lang and Josh Sitton around and this was a negative with McCarthy! -Aaron Rodgers -Elgton Jenkins -David Bahktiari -Rashan Gary -Kenny Clark 5 players who we need to stay(or get) healthy this year and I'm feeling a...

You don't have to be playing to be tested. Players are tested every off-season. I sincerely doubt that Soto is traded this off-season. I don't think they gave up what they gave up for 3 months of baseball and then to flip him 2 years away from Free Agency. That said, I really wouldn't be real sad to see the Cards give up a Nationals like package for Juan Soto for two years.

Maybe...I remember Stearns talking about how they still were gonna give him a chance to start again at some point in the future, but I look at it more in terms of us trading from a position of depth for a huge need. A pitcher with elite stuff and an injury history for a Shortstop that Stearns had long coveted...I can see him giving up the starter there. There was a stretch last year where people were advocating for Adames to get some MVP votes last year. So we got a lot in return. The part that's a bit shocking is what JP has done this year, but I don't think anyone saw THAT coming.

5.9 Bref War for Adams 5.3 for Rassmussen and Feyereisen Do the Rays get extra points for needing to find a spot for Adames while the future of the franchise in Wander Franco comes up? I could see that. It also propelled the Brewers from a team that was barely .500 to a 95 win team...despite kinda coasting at the end there. I like the trade. It's one of those trades that even if we do end up losing it by sending out more WAR, I think it was a good one for us. And Rassmussen is having a great deal of success. I like seeing that from guys we draft and develop even if it's elsewhere. He went through hell to get back.

I'm not sure why you're saying this. He was a starter most of the way through the minors. Very short outings, sure, but...he WAS coming back from multiple injuries. But the statement; I don't know that's true at all. I know the Brewers have brought...every starter save for...Lauer who was used a little out of the BP, but otherwise started from the start, but Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta, Houser, Ashby, they all started out in the pen. I definitely do NOT know that his ceiling was as a reliever or that the Rays do things so much differently. I don't think he'd have been starting for the Brewers in the near future because we had/have 6-7 starters, but this feels like a guess made as a definitive statement. That said, Stearns said he wanted to build an abundance of starting pitching to acquire position players as needed. He did that and Adames has been outstanding and we also needed someone to bridge the gap until Turang(at the very least). Rassmussen always had more upside than a late inning reliever...and he always carried more risk. We traded away a high upside arm for a REALLY good SS who ended up being kinda the heart of this team. So again, absolutely no complaints...and it's a big funny to go back and see people lamenting this trade and the SD trade a year ago....so we should probably keep that in mind when talking about these past deadline trades(aside from DFA'ing Lamet, that should be fairly criticized and it was a baffling move without justification).

I think it's easier to say without Black playing much...but people forget, just a year ago he was a 1st round pick with a great hit tool and the quickness and athletic ability to play middle IF and the glove to play 3B(though questions about arm strength). Things have just swung WAAAY too far the other way. I remember arguing with Brewers fans about Rickie Weeks when he was a ~.240 with a .345-.375 OBP and people did not like Weeks. BA, it's overrated. He's getting on base, you can live with .240. Especially as he's hitting for power. NOW we're justifying .159 and citing his slash line in about 15 PAs post trade? Sorry, but things are going a little bit too far the other way.

It'll be interesting to see where he's lining up when he comes back. Of course with his versatility, they could start him at LT and then move him to RT...or LG week to week. But coming off an ACL, you'd think they'd prefer to just put him in a spot and ease him back into it. So I don't know if we can really glean much from where he's practicing...WHEN he starts practicing with the team, but if it's LT, that could be an indication they think Bahk's going to be back sooner rather than later.