UpandIn

Just saw this article; https://heavy.com/sports/green-bay-packers/packers-spoke-with-jaguars-about-possible-wr-trade-report/ I've been calling for/hoping for a Shenault trade to the Packers for a year. He's a Deebo Samuel type weapon and would just fit this offense PERFECTLY. And when they shelled out big bucks for Kirk and changed their offense, it seemed possible they'd move on. Ended up trading him for a 6th and a 7th... I know 5th round picks are valuable, but this guy is a stud. 1350 yards his first two years playing in the worst run franchise(with respect to the McNair family in Houston). Oh well...at least we know they're in on players on the block and actively looking to upgrade the roster in our weaker area's.

I've seen Trevor Hooth from Prospects live talk about Cruz several times this year(among others young farm hands). Apparently he's been up to the mid 90s and...everything you say he is(not that I ever doubted it). There seems to be a bit of anxiety on this board over the looming end of the Woodruff/Burnes era, but it seems like scout Salvador Ayestas(I think I spelled that right) who was responsible for Cruz and the rest of this organization are already doing a really good job churning pitchers out. And that's before you consider what Burnes/Woodruff COULD...possibly, maybe net in a return should we choose to deal them.

Right...and they aren't even complaints. I went and watched a couple practices with an old coach and then watched them play on TV. Not to mention, when going through and doing my own 53 man a few days ago, I wanted to keep everyone they kept with the exception of probably Leavitt...and I REALLY hope I'm watching him blow up punt returners in a months time and thrilled they decided to keep him. PFF had Rasheed Walker going to the Packers in the 2nd round at one point not long before the draft last year. So if he's one of the final men to make the roster...I think now everyone can look at Gutekunst the same way they view Stearns. Guys who just objectively speaking, have done an exceptional job, guys who have their respective organization headed in the right direction and save for the few quibbles people have...Jordan Love or "overpaying" for Christian Watson(which, for the record, if we'd have lost a trade on paper to move up to #21 a few years ago and get Justin Jefferson and had "lost" that trade, nobody is going to care today)...by in large, he's been outstanding.

Like minds and all that. I hadn't seen any blogs about trading Yosh until I just searched for them. I saw some from the day before we traded CVL. I think Yosh is clearly a better player. The RB thing, I only saw Herman and then you...and I really didn't consider it. But the logic is sound. They'll likely get them through waivers and once you get past waivers it's really a 57 man roster week to week(and 69 overall) as you can protect 4 players, so much be confident in Hill's return and then either Goodson or Taylor if they need to bring one up. I really like that they kept that from 2020. You're not rushing guys back from injuries as much, give guys another week from concussion. I'd have kept the unlimited IR Designated to return, What I'm still not 100% certain on, do they need to put a designated to return label on them now like they did in the past when it was more limiting? 8 seems like a lot, and it is relative to last year, but it could get tricky if you're using it on guys like Ryan Jensen from TB for example, or if you're using 3-4 up in the first month. I don't THINK they have to declare who on IR can return, but the language is vague. For instance, IF they were to put Bahk back on IR just to give him 4 weeks...hypothetically, do they need to put "designated to return," as opposed to knock on wood, someone else who maybe has a season ender? I don't think so, but again, it's unclear in the wording to me. They are certainly more developmental, but they're also so much further along than Yosh was his first year. I was a huge fan of his as well, but if people remember early Yosh(even last pre-season) he was getting beaten like a dog at times. The way Jones was just dominating the Saints, KC rotational players...it was impressive. Tanoh Kpassagnon looked like he was running into a wall. This will be a good test of how we evaluate these players. Naturally we think the players we watch are more likely to be claimed, but I look at Dallas and I just don't see how he makes it past them with the loss of Tyron Smith. Also, the scheme fit is really just better there. And IF he clears waivers, does he even want to come back and sign here? He's already behind Bahk, Jenkins, Yosh, Tom and now Walker. So IF he clears, wouldn't shock me if he picked a organization that's not as deep. The Colts are another organization that can develop OL, don't have LT depth. We'll see. I'm not even sure they view Carpenter as a future safety. He's more of a tweener and I think they kept two guys there for their STs ability. But then it's a bit confusing they only went with 5 CBs. If they plan on playing Douglas at Safety at times, they'll need Nixon and SCJ to hold up. Thomas I would expect back on the PS. Ford...he does have a ways to go, but at least he can hold ground and anchor right now. Something Wyatt just isn't consistently doing. They seem determined to not lose the same way twice. They got gashed vs the run...they've absolutely loaded up on run stuffers. Their STs cost them a game, they went out and hired a HC to run the STs and have invested several roster spots into STs first players. Their OL depth have hurt them the past couple years, they draft Tom, Rhyan, Walker, bring back Yosh, all protection against their OTs not being healthy. The only thing this team is lacking is a WRer or TE that will go early in fantasy drafts, but I really-really like this overall roster and hopefully, we'll find a way to upgrade it. I'm sure there'll be a Mercilus type upgrade, a Rasul Douglas(not that it'll work out as well). Maybe not over the next 2 days, but during the course of the season I'd certainly hope so.

Yeah, I just don't agree. Tom HAS taken snaps at Center...not in the pre-season games, but between he and Jenkins, I think they're covered there. Even Runyan has taken snaps at Center before. I don't think Hanson backed into the job because of a depth issue, I I think they just believe Hanson earned the job rather than getting it by default. That he's been rotating in with the #1 Guards or RG is telling in and of itself. And yes, Caleb Young was waived. He doesn't technically fit our scheme, but I thought with Walker not having played, having been injured, the questions about his knees coming out, I thought they'd go the other way. They didn't.

Davis was probably the most surprising. He'd been the #3 pretty much all off-season, OTAs, Mini-Camp. He looked good. He had good practices, he was working with the #1s. He was a 5th round pick, Indy cut him despite needing a Safety. It'd be similar to cutting Enagbare for us. If Vernon Scott was healthy and they kept him, it'd be less surprising. But Abernathy, who wasn't even on a team heading into week 1 of the pre-season, he's seemingly slid into that #3 spot. Ford would be the other surprise. To go into a season with 3 guys who are NTs? That's a little strange, but Clark's playing more DE and they must think Ford can as well. That move may be tied into Wyatt's pre-season vs the run. He's got an incredible 1st step and he's a nice pass rusher and I think he's going to just keep getting better vs both, but right now, if they had to play him 40-45 snaps, I don't think he'd grade out real well as a run stuffer. That's not a critique on the pick. I was really hoping for him at #22 and I still like it, but he loses gap integrity too often. Other slight surprises; 2 RBs-Like I said, I saw Andy Herman speculate they may go with 2 and CheezeWiz mentioned it and it started to make more sense. Goodson and Taylor probably get through waivers, you can protect 4 guys. So at that point, it's a 57 man roster and they even have Dexter Williams who they could bring back before Kylin Hill is ready(if Kylin Hill is as good as some think he is and if he recovers from that really ugly knee injury). I really wanted Jones to make it just because he's so massive and he looked like he had good feet for his size. And he wasn't just playing against guys who were 3rd and 4th string, he got good snaps vs some starters and some backups. I think he put enough on tape that some team will take him. I don't think that's really a "surprise," so much as just a close call. Walker played well...at RT in the 2nd half of the last pre-season game. I agree, with so little tape on him, I thought he'd be the better chance to make it through waivers. He's also more athletic than Jones and he fits the scheme better. I thought Jones ability to just move people would overcome that, but I guess not. He probably fits best in a scheme like Dallas has...and with Tyron Smith going on IR, I would be very surprised if he makes it past them. Beyond that maybe a little bit surprised about Crosby starting the season active, but with none of the team activities open to the public, we have no idea how he looks and we're not even getting any hints from the guys up there every day. So he must be ready. Potential Waiver Claims/FA signings I imagine they'll be on the lookout for DB help, Edge help as you said. The Anthony Harris I remember from the Vikings would be ideal, but it sounds like he may be heading back to the Eagles yet. They needed a roster spot to acquire Gardner-Johnson, but doesn't have to pass through waivers. Logan Ryan is another guy who could be a great fit who was cut...but again, that was likely agreed upon to clear up a roster spot and I'm guessing he'll be back with Tampa Bay. TE-OJ Howard? Tyler Davis isn't a blocker, he's almost exclusively a receiver at this point. So it's not like you're giving up anything there. WRer-Tyler Johsnon is an interesting player. I just don't see a way to get him onto the roster, but he's a big, physical WRer who fans would likely be advocating for if he were already on the Packers.

I remember that HR vs the Cards where the announcers said something like, "ANOTHER young power hitter from this Brewers farm system." I really thought he was going to be a stud...and perfect with the Brewers because he balanced out that heavy-heavy RHed lineup. But those knee injuries really zapped it from him.

Yeah, to an extent. Randall Cobb says he does. But really, now that they're in a different place, I think Rodgers just wanted them to kinda go through their thought process with him more than anything. I assume you're asking because of Winfree after Kumerow-gate a few years ago. I guess that'll kinda be the tell. If they keep Winfree over Toure, then I guess the answer will be yes. But I suspect they'll just say they think they can get Winfree through Waivers, he's a RFA next year whereas Toure is a rookie. That seems to be the last undecided at that position. Do they keep 1 or both and which one. Also worth noting, Rodgers has been pretty effusive in his praise of Toure as of late as well. Particularly on the sideline this last game. I think it's impressive how the Packers has really worked with Rodgers and now they both seem to be in a much better place.

Tyler Davis has really taken what's a near lock of a roster spot and done ALMOST everything he can in the games to cough it up. But with Tonyan coming back, I think you're right. I think Gutukunst has given away a few clues how they may approach this cut down a bit differently. He's said repeatedly it's a 69 man roster, not a 53 anymore. With the ability to bring players up each week. That's what's kinda changed my mind on the possibility of keeping 2 RBs vs 3. I think now CheeseWiz may be right, they could start the season with 2 RBs. Especially if you can get some snaps from Rodgers at RB. Andy Herman is a really good follow. Breaks down the players and actually grades them. He has the Packers keeping 11 OL and 8 WRers. I don't think they keep 8 WRers, but I could see 7 with Toure getting the last spot. I think he'll get claimed. RB, everyone has a RB they think will get picked up. I think OL is the more likely position to get a player claimed, then DL and then, if they cut Toure, WRer. I think we should be able to get Etling, the RBs, our Edge, CBs al through waivers. Gafford has shown something, but he's been too inconsistent. Of course when looking at the DBs as a whole, it's so tough to tell who's actually been responsible for some of the big plays. There was one last week I believe(maybe the week prior) where people put a breakdown on Carpenter. To me it looked like Quarters or at least some type of Cover 3(particularly as Gafford was covering the flat and we already had a LBer over there). But like the PFF grades, we don't know the calls. So maybe the perception of guys like Gafford, Carpenter, Leavitt are higher than ours are...depending on the calls. They seem hellbent on keeping Leavitt...though I'm not sure why. He's got tight hips, he's just not a real fluid looking athlete. And he's injured...and I have a hard time seeing someone else claiming him. At OLBer, again, I'm with both the last two projections...except, why make Tipa a healthy scratch last week if he's not pretty much guaranteed a roster spot? Did they just want to see more from Kobe Jones? He's looked pretty impressive at times(he's also got a 1.7 RAS score, or something like that and hasn't done enough to get claimed I don't believe). I'd recommend checking out Andy Herman's videos or his content on various platforms. He's pretty insightful and I find that his grades on players(he goes back and charts every single play on the All 22) line up pretty accurately with the eye test.

Yeah...it is. I poorly articulated my point. I was just trying to convey the point that I think those two, and Mitchell, are more ready and will hit for a higher average in the near future than Wiemer. I should have said I think those two are maybe safer bets and more likely to hit for league average this year and next whereas Wiemer could take a little longer to really hit his groove and realize his potential. I was trying to thread the needle of saying I think they'll be competent hitters as rookies without the, "people expect too much out of prospects," follow up. But you're right.

Courtesy of Brewcrewball.com https://www.brewcrewball.com/2014/7/2/5865901/gilbert-lara-brewers-international-signing-dominican I don't know if this is entirely accurate, but we didn't sign anyone of significance until I think Larry Ernesto. I was just looking at our signings year by year and I think he was the next significant signing we'd made for 1.8M, but that could have been a year after the 2 year 300K limit.

I don't know who's blithely just chalking this up to Stearns having "one foot out the door," but that seems like an outlier. I don't recall seeing that once in this thread. Not to say someone didn't say it somewhere, but I haven't seen it. What I have seen is about 2 dozen "in hindsight," remarks like we're talking about the Yelich contract. Going back and reading from the beginning, it seems at best this trade was met with, "well that's confusing," type response and mostly "what are we doing," type responses. People saying the Hader trade is a great one because of Hader's subsequent blow up, THAT is using the benefit of hindsight. The argument that this was a baffling move and we gave up a future asset for a pitcher who hasn't been good since Stearns 1st year in Milwaukee, that's not an argument made in hindsight. This has gotten extremely petty at this point, but it's almost like a policing of who's a "real" Brewers fan. I'd say that's probably not helping the "toxic" nature of the board. Not everything is going to be universally agreed upon.

I think you're on to something here! These's this Greek kid who plays Basketball for the Milwaukee Bucks... People talk like this kid is something special because he wins ONE title(and a few MVPs years ago that he's still hanging his hat on!) LOL...Counsell is Bobby Cox in ATL, he's Sparky in Det, he's Tommy in Dodger Blue. He's the manager here until he doesn't want to be anymore. He's one of the best in the game(it's a joke he hasn't won Manager of the Year award yet). I'd suggest a replacement for Counsell, but...that'd require entertaining this and...just, nah.

Someone on Twitter was upset we didn't call Wiemer up. I thought that was kinda strange, not because he doesn't have 5 tools and maybe(probably IMO) the highest upside, but because I'm not sure he's QUITE ready(though taking a 97 MPH fastball up and away and lining it off the RF fence is MLB caliber stroke). Seems like Wiemer just ahead of Mitchell has the loudest tools, Frelick and Turang, both play premium positions and are more sure bets to at least be .260/.330 BA/OBP guys(and that seems pessimistic long term). But Wiemer...he could be a guy who hits 40HRs and steals 30 Bases. I'll defer to Joseph Zarr, but I rank them from REALLY-REALLY good to REALLY VERY good.

I know he got a pretty big bonus...and the Brewers can only afford to get 1.2-2M out to a couple players(or at least that's normally how they operate). So you'd think that playing with his brother would be appealing, but maybe the Brewers came in well under that? He was a fairly regarded prospect(20th last year) and got 1.2M while Jackson got 1.9. I'd love to see a trade with the Brewers acquiring Jaison...not just some pointless trade, but say hypothetically, we were to target Nolan Jones to play 3rd and the Guardians, though not lacking for prospects, BUT, if they are lacking anywhere, it'd be CF. So we take Ruiz and....Garcia or something for Jones and Jaison? I know, never gonna happen...but it does sound like Jaison has some similar attributes. The speed, the bat speed. Just more of a natural CFer, strong arm but lacks the power. He's also only played in the DSL, so this would mostly be fun for us to follow for the next 4-5 years...which is always the best reason to make a trade!

Wow...Lara was a guy the Brewers were just ALL in on. Didn't they have to pay a fine of 3.2M in addition to signing him for 3.2M due to how far over their bonus pool they went? And then they couldn't spend more than...500K or something like that for the next couple years. So it wasn't until 2017 when they were able to start to really spend again, and as noted, spread their signing bonuses out a bit more. This was at the same time we had drafted a 6'5 Shortstop Jacob Gatewood. A lot of all or nothing. The organization has made a pretty distinct change in approach since that Lara signing. David Stearns was hired the following year and has our organization in really great shape. There are so many guys like...Stiven Cruz who just wouldn't be in Milwaukee's organization under the old ideology.

Exactly. You only need to go back to the first page or 9 from this thread to see this wasn't a "in hindsight" opinion. His contract was largely incentive laden and prorated, so I believe we only took on...~1.5M or so, but that wasn't really the issue. It seems as if...to some, if you strongly dislike a move David Stearns front office makes(and we don't know if this was him or Arnold that pushed for it...Arnold is the GM after-all) then you're questioning his leadership. I'd be thrilled to find out that we have signed David Stearns to a 4 year contract extension and he will be in the employ of the Milwaukee Brewers for 5 more years and not just slip into that wide open POBO position in Queens next year. Both things can be true.

I'm a little surprised how bad he's been vs lefties. Last year he was good, the two before that very good. If he was crushing lefties...it'd make sense, particularly given how he fit with this team, his personality, how he keeps things light, there's just no spot for him...although you could always put him at 3rd!

Rosenthal wasn't traded for Hader. Also, how is it the "The hindsight has proven me correct critics," AND are somehow the same people who are in the "as was angrily point out at the time of the trade," crowd? Sounds like the antithesis of hindsight. Sounds like foresight. Every other point has been made, but it feels like they're intentionally distorted. Also...you post this on the day Hader has his worst outing ever...despite the fact that MOST of this hasn't even been about the Hader trade nearly as much as the subsequent moves, but that's not using the benefit of hindsight? But sure...the front office clearly didn't put much value into Reece Olson nor Tristan Peters...obviously. They were quite clearly wrong on the prior, we'll see where they end up on the later.

I think some of y'all are really undervaluing the trade value for a LF/CF who was extremely productive a year after getting drafted in HiA ball. A guy the Brewers thought enough of to skip him past LowA. Sounds a LOT like Cooper Hummel...if Hummel had better production earlier in his career. So no, it's not just that nobody who doesn't agree with or understand the trade lacks the capacity to understand what Tristan Peters was. He was a player you COULD have used in another trade for a more valuable player at some point in time in the future for a player who was effectively a salary dumb for a player with a ~4.75 ERA and a 1.50 Whip going back 7 years now(despite not pitching the last two). He was in his 2nd year in the system and the one thing we're clinging to is "he hasn't proven anything above A-ball." Ok...and Rosenthal hasn't proven anything since before he was drafted. Well before. That's another prospect we've basically thrown away on a reliever who either had no impact or had a negative impact on the Brewers in 2 years(I don't count John Curtiss because at least that made sense to me at the time). Reece Olson, Tristan Peters.

Ok, well...hat aside, I was surprised he was DFA'ed with Jake McGee and Suter...among others still on the roster, and I was hardly the only one.

He and Wiemer look like the prototypes when building baseball players...or Tight Ends. I'd argue Wiemer's tools are more impressive, but...that it's a question is what makes it exciting. I really thought it'd be Frelick or Ruiz and we know Turang is going to be up...so that's 5 players who should be able to help in some degree in the near future. Some of the skill sets are redundant...but redundant on base skills are just fine with me.

I'm not quite as down on management as you are. I still think they've done an outstanding job building this organization, remaking it, the pitching analytics, their change in offensive philosophy(or at least an apparent change) in who they target. But the DFA of Lamet, Reece Olson for Daniel Norris and Tristan Peters for Rosenthal... I trust Stearns overall direction/decision making and his off-season moves...particularly given the restraints we're under, but his deadlines have not been impressive.

Last years deadline was two good trades and one terrible one that never made any sense. The John Curtiss trade made sense. That's actually one of those "in hindsight..." trades. Also, they did get Adames last year. While not a deadline deal, it was a good trade. I'd say last years trades, other than Norris all made sense as opposed to this years when people were dumbfounded over the Lamet DFA, Rosenthal trade and the timing of the Hader trade. Trading a prospect like Reece Olson for Daniel Norris is always a dumb trade, but at least Escobar was a nice bat for us and Curtiss was throwing well before the trade, just got injured. Reece Olson and Tristan Peters could probably be packaged to get a pretty nice player. And Lamet has been the best reliever in all the trades coming or going this year and we just dumped him without giving him a look. Good news is that Gasser kid looks like the real deal.

He's gotten semi-regular snaps at C. He got more in OTA's and Mini-Camp, but he could play C, and obviously Jenkins can also play Center. So no, I don't think they NEED to keep Menet or Hanson to have coverage at Center. I just think they like Hanson. They like him at Guard and at Center...and I don't get either, but I don't have to. He does look a lot thicker this year, especially in the legs whereas last year he just looked overmatched.