BrewerFan

I wouldn't be shocked to see a "surprise" trade involving a couple of these players going into the Dec meetings. We've got a ton of depth. I don't WANT to see anyone traded, but I love some of the younger guys and as good as these guys are, I could see the Brewers making a big move this off-season. Ketel Marte would be an interesting but probably unlikely... but hell, I guess that's why it'd be surprising. If you felt good about Turang at SS, you could get maybe 50 HRs out of SS/2B and a .285 BA? Or not, could be a pitcher... or nobody. I'm just throwing this out there. All really good prospects at positions with really good young depth. I AM really excited to see what Dinges and that 70 grade arm with that bat... can do behind the plate in a year or two.

Very little. He's got a No-Trade... which is moot because he's got 10 and 5 rights anyway(which is effectively a NTC- 10 years service time, 5 years with the same team). I think teams would want him, but he signed in Milwaukee. If the Dodgers wanted him, maybe, but they have a guy at DH that I think they're pretty high on. He's not a good fielder. He is basically paid like a platoon OFer for them, so... maybe! You were just talking about signing Cody Bellinger, but you think this is so unrealistic you can definitively say with 4 years of service time ahead of him, it will NOT happen?

I don't think they are. Love underthrew him on one throw he got behind the defense and then overthrew him on another where he should have taken it for 6. There's not much of a difference between where Olave was graded coming out and where Golden was. They were both really good route runners.. and in fact, that's what people were talking about Golden about while saying Bond was the burner(remember both were considered 1st rd picks). Golden went about 10-12 slots below projections, Olave above... I don't think Golden has to match Olave's numbers to have his impact. The Packers spread the ball out. Nobody had more than 76 targets last year and 5 guys were between 70 and 76. Olave had 119 and 138 targets and was a #1 by FAR right out of the gate. The offense isn't centered around Golden. I think you'll see him on the same level as Olave as the year goes on. As for Watson, I've had 3 ACLs. They were when I was 18, 20 and 23. They were clean. They're so much better now than they were 20 years ago when I had mine and they're... so much better than they were 20 years before that. I don't think he's going to have any issue getting back to full speed. The biggest issue is having patience... you start feeling 6 months in like you're good to go and that's when you can have catastrophic injuries and re-injure your knee. But he had a clean tear. All I need him to do this year is to be able to run a go and take a Safety with him... 4 players in NFL HISTORY have run sub 4.4 40s, at 6.5 220. He doesn't need to run a full route tree. He's a weapon and a threat and he won't be all the way back this year, but he's going to be a huge addition.

I think the biggest area they can improve, Love just... he starts hitting a couple more of those shots where he's got someone open and this goes from a team that LOOKS like the best in the NFL to just a dominant team on offense and defense. They still played sloppy, penalties, missed blitz pickups(Brooks in Week 1 made at least one TD possible just ROCKING two guys in pass protection. I'm positive that's the reason you're seeing him and not Wilson. But those things did keep Washington in the game. I think there's another level Love is going to get to. We can dream on Watson, Golden, Reed, Doubs, Wicks, Heath and then Kraft, Musgrave... and Fitzpatrick who is complete TE(so is Kraft, but... I don't need to say that, right?) Jayden Daniels to me is what everyone said Lamar was coming out, but he hasn't had the coaching, the defense, the OL or the run game. The differences; 1-Daniels takes hits outside the pocket that Lamar just doesn't. Lamar has that Barry Sanders like ability to seemingly never get hit square. 2-Daniels ability to throw outside the numbers and downfield is... MILES ahead of younger Lamar, even first MVP Lamar and I think he's better than Lamar NOW at it. Daniels could be the #2 QB in the NFL in a year or 2... and he may very well be better than Mahomes for a stretch. That's what's possible. It's also possible he's Randall Cunningham(in the modern NFL) but the hits wear on him too much. But he is SO impressive. I thought Caleb Williams was so clearly the most TALENTED QB in that draft class...and then I watched Merril Hodge(who is shockingly good at evaluating QBs) break them down and Daniels biggest flaw was he almost refused to throw over the middle. He stayed away from it, but he was throwing just darts on those 40 yard throws to complete a 20 yard out or rolling out to his right and hitting his guy in stride. A lot of running QBs, they open up the passing game because you have to commit another player to him or you have to change the way you rush, but Daniels... to me, if he lost his ability to run like he can and he had Jordan Love's mobility or Matthew Stafford, I think he would still be a franchise QB. If I was a Washington fan, I'd be feeling VERY confident about the future of my team. They need to get younger, they need to hit on some more picks, but you have a franchise QB there... if you can keep him -healthy. He also seems so mature, he has poise, he seems like the perfect young QB you want coming in after the JOKE of a franchise they've had with the Front Office and Management and all of their sexual harassment and just sleezy stuff, this kid is perfect to lead them into the future and to... give them a new look.

I just think misses stand out more than hits. He dropped that ball into Reed perfectly on the play he got hurt, he hit Heath where only he had a chance to catch it. I'd love to see a VR of what it's like to play QB in the NFL with everything crossing your eyes and everything going on around you. I didn't see the route that Golden ran, but for Love to overthrow him... a 4.29 guy, that's almost impressive. But if nothing else, we've seen... beyond any doubt, that Love has every single tool needed to be an elite QB. An MVP caliber QB. Gotta put it all together and do it consistently, but... he's been great at time. Edit-I'm not even touching the rest of what you said because... I think you nailed it. Yeah... but SO much has changed from when we were going to run out Nixon, Hobbs and Valentine with Bullardd in the slot(where he was terrible last year). Hafley played 3 CBs over 80% of the time at BC and about 80% of the time last year. This year, he's played 3 CBs just 5 snaps in BOTH weeks. I still think CB is an area of weakness. Where you REALLY see it is on 3rd or 4th and short and you need to get up in the faces of the WRs, the ball is coming out quick and that's been the ONE area the Packers have not been able to get stops. Vs either the Lions or the Redskins. This was a pretty big concern by... the National Media and the Local press, so I'll just speak for myself, but I was concerned that they hadn't added any outside corners and we relying on guys who'd played almost exclusively slot or like Hobbs and Nixon had played better in the slot than he had as an outside corner... I didn't follow camp all that closely as I said, but when we'd talked about it... we were talking about Hafley's scheme which is ideally, more man coverage(more as in...like 60-40 or 50/50 zone/man, nobody is running man every play other than... maybe Gregg Williams). Even then(during or around the draft, when Garrett wanted a trade) it was kinda an either or. We need to improve the CBs or get more pressure. Micah Parsons changes all of that... but guys like that are so seldom traded, I didn't really think it was realistic... even when I posted about it, it felt like every other trade... but even more far fetched as this was the Cowboys and so much less than I thought. Now... Hobbs, Nixon, Bullard... just like the pass rush grades of most of our DL, their coverage has improved drastically. I don't think those players have changed in what they're capable of doing, but NOW you can play to their strengths. Nixon can play on his toes, break on the ball faster, knowing he has help over the top.... When asked what's changed, why is this team playing with more swagger this year," he says, "Swagger? Yeah, we got Micah Parsons!" So yeah, when we were looking at losing Jaire and the off-season additions Gutekunst had made, the CB room was a HUGE red flag. They moved a WR to CB and he's probably our #3/4 CB. We only played with 2 CBs in Week1 and in Week 2, we played 3, but only 2 on the field all but 5 snaps. So it's a pure zone defense, but... just speaking for myself, this was back when we were talking about how the Packers defense was going to take the next step. We were getting rid of Ja and you had Hafley and Matt LaFleur talking about how they weren't able to play the way they wanted to at times due to personnel... and a defense that thrived off interceptions... which unless you have a pass rush that's just dominant and getting strip sacks, that's hard to rely on(Xavier McKinney started off with... 5 straight games last year IIRC.) This year you have one.... I believe. So yeah, playing a C1, single high man scheme, I had and still have... very little confidence in this defense taking the next step in THAT respect(though... if you have confidence, who knows). Hell, we were talking about a lack of excitement about this team a day or two before the trade because we didn't know what we had. If Gary would bounce back, Clark, what would LVN make that big jump and then Edgerrin Cooper. Those were the things were were hoping would keep our defense at the level it was last year. But Nixon being able to drop into a zone, know he's got help over the top, but also know the ball is coming out quick, that's it. Micah Parsons is a force multiplier. I think that speaks to Jeff Hafley as well. Bullard isn't good in man, so he started rotating him with Hobbs in the slot and they're also playing VERY little base....Parsons and Gary were allowed to stand up when they're comfortable, the Cheetah package with LVN, Gary and Parsons plus Wyatt. And I'm listening to James Jones right now on that show with Acho talking about how he was worried about that secondary and now "they an sit on those routes." That's what he's doing. He's not locking anyone down and he doesn't need to. Just come up, hit, don't allow YAC yards... which they didn't until late in the game. But MAN... this is like a dream. Brian Gutekunst talked OPENLY about wanting to an elite edge and how if there was one, he'd hypothetically be willing to add edge rushers and you go out and jump on that opportunity and now you can play to the strengths of your secondary, you don't need to cover longer in order to send pressure. What this actually looks like... the '96 scheme. You had Fritz Shurmur who kinda pioneered that zone blitz by overloading one side... and the dropping a DT. We played with Butler, Eugene Robinson and Mike Prior with Newsome and Doug Evans, the front 4, Gabe Wilkins in pass rushing downs for Gilbert and then Wayne Simmons abusing TEs, Brian Williams flying around like Cooper. I'll take Cooper, Bullard and Wyatt, Wooden over Wilkins, Santana and Mike Prior, but the scheme is VERY similar. I've said before I think if you take Reggie off that '96, '97 defense, they're average, not special. This defense was better. It's gonna come down to jhow can Jordan Love play in the post-season, how healthy they can be. Right NOW though, dominated the #1 defense last year and the #5 defense last year, long season, but as indifferent as I am to the Badgers right now, I'm THAT excited about the Packers. The ONE thing I'm worried about at THIS moment... is Myles Garrett. He may be the only player better than Micah at that position, Tom is questionable. I don't care if Kraft doesn't go out for a pass, you better take care of Garett. Keep him off Love. I agree, that's a bit of a concern. Free runners, you gotta have a hot read, or there should be a guy who's in man who you can try and throw back shoulder to, a checkdown. There were free blitzers and we were getting beat quickly at times. BUT... for the plays we've seen Love leave out there, the two passes to Golden, the deep throw and then early on 4th down where he had the DBs beat, through 35 games Love is 20-15, Rodgers was 19-16, Love has 64/22 TD/INT, Rodgers was 63/23. QB rating, Rodgers was like 98.1 and Love is like 96.7(that one is off memory). So he's still in that dropping a DIME in there to Reed, hitting Heath where only he can get it on the sideline. Just gotta start hitting even ONE more a game and you're adding 7 points. He's SOOO close to being MVP caliber and... again, because of Parsons(I don't think you can give him too much credit) he's not forcing the ball in there and it seems like he knows he'll get the ball back. It's a LONG year, but I won't pretend this isn't the best team in the NFL right now. We still need a LOT of other things to go right for us, but right now, this is the best team in the NFL. So... to your last point;

That could be SO big for the Packers. It's a little like adding Parsons to the defense in the way he tilts the field and the safeties either rotate over to help double him, OR he just beats you deep. He's not on the same level as Parsons as a WR or... he'd be Jamar Chase/Justin Jefferson, but you still have to account for him. Watson on one side, Golden on the other, Wicks, Doubs, Kraft, Musgrave, the middle just opens up. It'd also obviously be better if Reed was healthy, but... with the Jones fracture he has, missing two months isn't the worst thing in the world... I guess. Let both things heal. 15 games in the regular season left, a LOT of things still have to go right, but this team also has a LOT of upside and a lot of room for improvement yet.

Yeah, but with the talent we have coming up, especially in those positions, that would feel like a poor use of resources to pay him a "Yelich like extension." You have like 4-5 guys who can handle the keystone. We've got so many, we're talking stud 2B like Adamczewski and moving them to the OF because there are soo many really talented kids there. I think you either sign him now to a 7/100M type deal or you move on. I'd also point out Marte and his extensions. He's been a guy who has played outstanding defense, has hit for power and average and he just got 6/105.5 with a TO. I think maybe 6 years for 80M and 2 TOs at 25M AAV with some incentives would be fair. If he is a .300 hitter(which...I wouldn't actually make part of the incentives as there are some hollow .300's) but if he continues to hit and play defense at an elite level, his salary should go up.

I think that used to be the case... but the last several years, there have been quite a few rookie WRs who've had big years. I'd say since 2020 there have probably been 15-20 Rookies who've made pretty significant immediate impacts. I think we need him to step up... and I think he will. I think 1000 yards is still well within reach. That Washington secondary is pretty solid.

Effort once the game was kinda put away has been... a little less enthusiastic. No Parsons. There were plays with 9 Packers in pursuit and getting to or near the ball. Just a... dull ending after 27-10.

Well... I hope Belton gets to learn more under Tom and this OL gets to learn more together as that's been the only weak spot I've noticed thus far. Giving up pressures on blitzes. This is good preparation for Minnesota later in the year, but, I'd like to see the ball out quickly in the hands of Golden, Wicks, whomever and have a cleaner possession. BUT...27-10 over the NFCCG losers Washington after the 15-2 Detroit Lions... that's a pretty minor gripe and one that's easier to overcome with this Micah lead defense.

And right on cue, Quay comes screaming up the middle...

Walker has been great this year. He missed a tackle in space, but vs the run and rushing the passer, he's been very good.

Just so average or even bad on offense and they go down and score when they need it. I love this two TE package with Jacobs... and this offense is going to be so much better with Tom and Banks back.

Micah time here...

Carrington is jumping out, Nixon is playing the ball... but I think a lot of it is speeding up that QBs clock.

Still playing just a little sloppy on offense. Get Brooks in that game for pass pro. They've gotta be able to block 5 and they need hot reads.

They got that one to start this half... was there another one they got that I missed?

Musgrave getting involved... that could be a big element to the offense...

They start at the 35 otherwise. We should be able to cover better than that.

`And... off the upright. Gotta convert that. Still, sloppy offense vs a very good team and it's 14-3 and we've dominated the Commanders. I wonder if... MAYBE you lineup Micah at LE so he can face the rookie RT instead of another Pro-Bowl OT? Anyway, another good half by the offense, dominant half by the defense.

Don't want to get greedy, but... that holding sucks and I'd LOVE to see the Packers go up 21-3 here...

Having a defense like THIS... was a dream. I just wanted one good enough for our offense to have a shot if they scored 28. I mean... no point in relitigating the past, but this is the type of defense that if you give MOST of the Packers teams from 2011-2022, we're winning those Pats Super Bowls. "The big guys can run and the little guys can hit." And then the offense, they can get away with a couple of missed opportunities because they just get the ball back. Lots of time left, but the defense is looking like some of the better defenses we've seen the last 15 years. As good as those Seattle defenses, the 49ers... whoever. They look like they're right up there. Bullard tonight has been a menace.

Ooh...thought Heath got that...

...and they just miss him... DAMN.

Offense needs to put together another drive here. Get Golden the ball in space. Quick screen, take a shot, whatever.