strawbossisevil

Except what you fail to point out is that no manager would use Shouse in the 9th inning. Not Ned, not Pinella, not any manager. Like it or not, but any manager is going to put in Gagne in that situation. So basically, your fault isn't with Ned's handling of the situation, but the way baseball managers handle "closing" situations in general. I won't disagree with you there, but to lay that on Ned is a bit unfair IMO.

I could care less when they second guessed him. The statistics above show why it may have been statistically wise for Yost to make the move when he did. You can disagree with his reasoning but to act as if it was a stupid move when the statistics clearly favor Ned is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. He was seeking to put his pitchers in the best position to succeed. Had the offense scored more than three runs, I'm sure Suppan would have been given a bit longer leash, but with the way the ball flies out of GAB, I can see why he would be especially careful. The problem is not when anyone claims to have decided when they disagree with him. The fact is we have a number of posters who are Sunday morning quarterbacks on this website which go out of the way to criticize any possible move, so that if it does fail, they can run to the vent thread to be vindicated in the idea that they are better than Ned. One other point, that I've made in the past, is that we aren't privy to the information that Yost has. Perhaps Suppan was tired already, and had mentioned that to Yost before heading out for the inning. We know from past interviews that these situations happen somewhat frequently, but since they aren't publically stated, some rip down the manager because of this lack of information. Just something to consider, no way to prove whether this was the case or not. But its something to consider whenever a move is made that some jump on.

I wonder if he would profile well as a 2nd baseman. He seems to be a pretty athletic player from all accounts, and in a few short years we may need a 2nd baseman if Weeks moves on. Escobar already seems to have his hands on the SS position once J.J. moves on, and we have plenty of options in the OF currently, but with the Hurricane's recent move to CF, we have very little depth at 2nd. I wonder if he would benefit from the shorter throws too, since he seems to have an issue with throwing errors.

I agree with Endaround. If Turnbow is used correctly, he can be a flat out dominate part of our bullpen. We just can't use him in back to back games and expect good results from him.

I imagine extra inning games typically (percentage wise) go to the team with the better bullpen. Although, on an individual day, any team could score on any bullpen, so I suppose anything could happen in a small sample of games.

I think Yost just played the math. The tying run was at the plate, and so he wanted to bring in the person who he felt would be best against Votto and put down the threat. It isn't like Yost, made this move in the 3rd inning, there were two outs in the 7th. So, he went with the best pitcher he had against lefties in Shouse. I would contend that even while Suppan was hitting his spots, just the fact that he is right handed makes him more hittable than a lefty like Shouse who hides the ball so well. If you played this exact situation out 100 times, Yost's move probably plays out favorable more often than if he had left Suppan in the game. The fact that he made the more mathematically correct move and had it backfire on him in this one instance, does not make it the wrong move. That's baseball, in that sometimes you'll make the best possible move and still get burned. In his career, Suppan has an OPS against of .842 from pitch 76 to 100, up almost 100 points from before that pitch count. Shouse's career OPS against lefties is .598. So basically, just looking at it from a statistical point of view, by bringing in Shouse, the statistics say that the expected OPS against for that at bat went down nearly .250. Even on his best days, I doubt he could match what Shouse does against lefties. All in all, I liked the move to bring in Shouse in that situation. With the tying run at the plate, Yost decided not to mess around and to play his best chip forward. Unfortunately for him it didn't work out and now the second guessers are out in full force. But let's try to recognize that the move was hardly one based merely on managerial stupidity. Let's give Yost a little credit in playing the numbers in a tight game. Even if it didn't work out in this instance.

I wasn't claiming that there was logic in that post. I was contending with jason's lumping the majority of Yost supporters as those who "have no reason why they support the guy". I would contend that there are very few who don't have some logic in their defense of Yost. Some may believe that his flaws are overemphasized, is that a logical argument? Clearly it could be. Some may point to the fact that if you compare him to other managers, he really isn't all that different, and that he indeed has his positive points as well. Logical? Yep. Some may use the circumstance during the game to point out why Ned may be handcuffed at certain points in a game (be it with the bench, the bullpen etc.), these are logical too. Some may argue that certain moves may seem right in the short term, but might cripple you over the course of a season. Once again, very logical. My point is, the Ned supporters who don't use some sort of logical argument to support him are very few and far between, although many people who dislike him as manager seem to center only on the worst of the Ned supporters (as I imagine many of us Ned supporters center our attention on the worst of the Ned haters). There is logic being used on both sides of the argument. Often times it just comes down to being respectful of others and recognizing that many may view the game situations with a different perspective. That doesn't mean they don't use logic, its just a different logic than you'd use in the same situation. Does that make sense?

I've seen a number of posters who explained why it may not have been such a terrible move, considering Yost's other options. Riske (being tired from 2 innings on Friday), Turnbow (being terrible w/ runners on base), McClung (need I even elaborate?). I think this situation will be helped when we can add another solid arm in the pen (Bush) in place of McClung. Yes, some have used the "hater" label too. But, just as you don't want to be lumped in a group, don't lump the Yost admirers into one group either. Some of us actually defend our opinion with logic.

Yes, its fun to revel in and get worked up about statistical anomalies that won't likely make any difference over the course of a whole season. Yipee! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I personally think the discussion is tired on both sides, since both sides have made their points ad nauseum to the point of it being ridiculous. Both the Yost detractors and the Yost defenders rarely add anything to the discussion. Often that includes your posts, and often that includes my posts. Maybe when bringing up him in the first place, its something we need to think through whether we really want to go "there" again.

Its early in the case of Braun and Fielder. I imagine they'll figure things out. Ned has done well most of the year with the bullpen. Certainly arguments could be made about a game or two, but that's true with any manager. I really don't think he's been a liability to this point.

I'll admit the situation with Mota was scary, but he got through it. Kudos! It isn't nearly as bad as some seem to indicate. At worst, he fails about 40% of the time in that situation. The basketball comparison is very ridiculous IMO. I do like it that the Yost haters are consistent. Even when the results don't back their point of view. I would say that I understand both points of view. On the one hand, Riske can't pitch in every game, and he just went 2 innings on Friday, on the other hand Mota was in the midst of a rough inning. Since pretty much all we had left in the bullpen for that inning was Turnbow and maybe Riske, its understandable why he stayed with Mota. In many ways, this may have allowed Mota to exercise some demons from his time with the Mets, that has to feel good for him.

Hmm, Garlic Powder sounds good. I'll have to remember that for next time. Thanks Toby.

Mmm. Raw beef, onions, and pepper on rye. Not much can top that. I'm just curious to see if anyone else eats this stuff.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....soooooooooooo goooooooood. http://gullyborg.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/08/grilled_steak.jpg Come on Prince. You know you want it.

I think he got burned last year with the pen getting over worked. He might be over compensating some for that in the present. However, you don't know when a pitcher is done, until he's already had an amount of damage done on him.

I don't think Gagne will be nearly this bad all season. Even if he'd pitch as poorly as he did with the Red Sox (which is a bit of a stretch IMO), that would still cut his current ERA in half. I'm not terribly worried, I think we'll see him do just fine as we get further into the season.

I hate the Dick Van Dike show commercial. Ugh.

Bako with a clunk to the junk.

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/5bf25cb95989975fabaf95d70dba47369b8d7ed.jpg Fixed.

Cubs doing their best to cough up the lead. 8-7, only one out in the 8th.

That Kapler picture is gross. Must we see that everytime he gets a hit? Ugh. Perhaps you could find a picture that doesn't show off his "equiptment".

Another run for the Cubs. 5 run inning. The Astro pitching staff doing everything to lose today.

Ugh. The ump is squeezing the corners on Riske. Come on.

Our defense has been really bad today. Its frustrating.

Come on Weeks, that as tailor made as it gets. Ugh, the Cubs just took the lead. I hate Fukudome already.