strawbossisevil

Shouse hadn't pitched in a long time. He was probably the freshest guy in the pen. I have no problem seeing if you can get an inning out of him. Everyone else in the pen had been used quite a bit more lately, including Spurling/Dessens. Even bad relievers rarely cough up four run leads, it just doesn't happen. Plus like everyone said, even if T-bow and Cordero had a few days off, that doesn't mean you don't rest them every chance you get so you can use them in those tight two or one run ballgames, which so far this season we've had a lot of. Sometimes you just lose a game, managing is taking calculated gambles, and tonight the gamble didn't pay off, although about 95%+ it would, tonight was one of those exceptions. That's the way it is, its a tough loss, but every team in the majors has one of these on occasion. No need to go overboard with the ranting and raving about firing Yost, when his players really hung him out to dry tonight. Seriously, I think so many people on this site think the Brewers record would be perfect if we had a manager other than Yost, which is just absolutely ridiculous.

Haha, thought I'd see this thread up. The 8th inning was T-bows to win or lose. We can't afford to run our relievers in the ground. Cordero should not be brought in for more than an inning at a time, because he's been heavily overused lately. If we bring in Cordero we don't have anyone but Spurling in the 9th. Now that would have been stupid. That's my vent. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif And Shouse can't even pitch in a 4 run game to help save the bullpen? Now obviously that backfired, but its hard to blame Yost for trying to give his workhorses a rest so they don't end up running out of gas by the end of the season. Gee Whiz, talk about melodramatic overreactions.

Come on, who else do we have to pitch the 9th if Cordero is brought in. He's already been overpitched this season. The 8th is Turnbow's to win or lose, and apparently today he got shelled. Hardly Yost's fault. He can't run his pitchers into the ground (as many on this site would have him do).

According to this article. Harden Article Now the guy has ridiculously good top of the rotation stuff when he is healthy. However his value right now is probably at an all time low (which is why its so strange that Beane would be looking to sell.) Since seeing this article, I've been having visions of a rotation of: Sheets Capuano Harden Suppan Bush So, anyway, what do you think it would cost us to bring in Harden? Villenueva + Jackson? More? Discuss.

Exactly, and I imagine Bush was out there today for as long as he was, because Ned wanted to give Cordero, Turnbow and Wise the day off. If Bush would have proceeded to get the next three batters out, Cordero would be available tomorrow. Now once Bush gave up the hit to Berkmann and the run, it made sense to stick Cordero in there to make sure this game wouldn't slip away. Ned may have been trying to get by without running his best reliever into the ground. It didn't work out tonight, but I'd hardly say it was a bad decision. As for the Aquino decision, I guess I didn't like it either. I would have rather that he would have just gone with Wise for the rest of the inning. Bringing Cordero in against the bottom of the order in a tie game didn't make enough sense, and it would have knocked him out of pitching the following night, so the only real move available to make was Aquino. Not saying that I agree with Ned making the move in the first place, but it was the only one available to him to make.

No, I'm not kidding. The guy has done a horrible job of stranding inherited runners (which isn't included in your nice little ERA stat). And he's been bailed out of jams on at least two occasions. He's not nearly as good as the stats you gave made him out to be. He's wild, and has no sense of the strike zone. It was pretty clear from the very beginning that Aquino was going to have games like last night, he's not nearly as refined as the rest of the members in our pen.

Just got back to the game: I guess I'd have to give Nedly a "C-" for the game. Bringing in Aquino for Wise was not a very wise decision. Wise was doing so well and really was showing no sign of being roughed up (unless you count that little tap that he almost caught as being "roughed up"). And seriously, Aquino blows chunks. He has all year. Its just he's been bailed out so many times, that his ERA is deceptively better than it should be. Ned's handling of the bottom of the ninth was great, however. Pinch hitting for Jenkins with Hart, and then for Mench with Gross gave us the best chance (statistically) to get back in it, and it almost worked. One thing I did notice today is that the Astro's lineup is pretty pathetic. Biggio, Everett, Burke and Ausmus all in the lineup together. They are going to have to have above average pitching if they are going to stay anywhere near the top of the division.

I don't know, sounds like the fans in St. Louis are pretty class. The fact that they supposedly chanted Soup! Soup! for Suppan just confirmed that for me.

I like our pitching matchups in the next series. Sheets > Reyes, Capuano > Wells, Suppan > Looper. I think we have a good chance of taking two out of three, especially if St. Louis continues their difficulties at the plate.

I'm so sick of all the dang popups. Hit the ball on the line guys. Ugh. Fielder needs to get going. He's a major cog in our lineup and we can't afford to have him hit like he has. Yost needs to use Gross earlier in the game. Is there something wrong with him? Why is Gwynn hitting again? Finally, get Braun to the bigs, we need his bat.

I love this lineup. It's pretty great that we have the depth to give ourselves favorable matchups against lefties. Having Mench, Estrada (switch hitter) and Graffy should really help our run production against left handers. While I understand that yesterday was just one game, I really think our offense is going to be pretty solid this year, and possible near the top of the league once we add Braun to the mix. If Hardy can hit as well as I think he can, we really won't have a single liability in the lineup, even when a lefty is being thrown at us. When was the last time we could say that?

I thought we already had one, it's right here. Link

I agree to an extent of what everyone has said in this thread. That said, jondoe was out of line himself. First, his thread title called out the entire Brewerfan.net community, with an attitude that said that we are content with a rotation that would have a "sucky" Dave Bush in it. He based his numbers solely on ERA, and was given plenty of reasons why his judgments just weren't accurate. And instead of realizing that he may have made an error in judgment he dug in his heels. He made personal attacks on the people here, saying that they don't watch games etc. And were people really that snide in their comments? Seems to me, that most were just stating the facts. I really think the elitist poster thing was not actually as severe in that thread as some are making it out to be. There were a lot of people listing stat after stat proving him wrong, but since it was a stat based argument to begin with, I really don't see a problem with that. And as was pointed out, most of the "name calling" actually wasn't, and after reading the thread the only poster who struck me as being involved in "hazing" is a relatively new poster himself. The point is this, this site is about looking at things in depth, especially statistically. We might not always agree in certain statistics, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect some disagreement when we declare an absolute truth over something we haven't really researched all that much. Its being willing to say, either "I have a lot to learn" or "Agree to Disagree", both of which I didn't see much of from Jondoe. If people want to post like that, there are plenty of places where that is the norm, this site is for open minded discussion of statistics and opinions. All posters, new or old, ought to have a willingness to learn, not just to teach.

If we could get him for Jackson and the Hurricane (benefiting from his incredible spring), I'd probably go ahead with this one. I might even be willing to swap Jackson with Villenueva. If the Brewers added Cordero, and Turnbow returned to form, we would have the makings of an incredible bullpen. It would really shorten the game. Three All Star quality closers on one team. Just imagine... 7th inning - Turnbow 8th inning - C. Cordero 9th inning - F. Cordero Add in the fact that Capellan still has closer potential, and we'd probably have the best pen in the bigs, to go along with our top notch rotation. Adding C.Cordero would be a huge step in making our pitching staff the best in baseball. I would not, however give up a Gallardo or Inman for a 60 inning pitcher, they are just too special and part of the long term success of our organization.

Come on bucksman4, its his first outing of Spring Training. Its not unexpected that some top level pitchers get hit around a bit in their first outings. They are working on getting a feel for all of their pitches, and tinkering around with new pitches (for example Sheets is working on using his changeup more). This isn't the regular season, so lets hold off criticizing Sheets until the season actually starts. Edit: Wow that top half of the second inning was fast.

I haven't upgraded so I imagine that is the problem. I guess I'll have to do it here. Once you read this Brian, feel free to delete this thread. I just wanted to apologize for my behavior in the chatroom yesterday. I was out of line and acting snarky. I'll try to be more respectful in the way I disagree.

Holy Cow, Ryan Braun. This guy needs to be up with the big club. 8 RBI, unbelievable.

Jason Tyner to the White Sox....The White Sox trade...

Wow, I like Hart, but if he puts up those numbers that would be amazing. Braun also looks to be a stud. For quick reference, here are the projected OPS numbers position by position: Catcher: Estrada .752 OPS (Miller .723 OPS) 1st Base: Fielder: .904 OPS 2nd Base: Weeks: .815 OPS (Graffy .754 OPS) Shortstop: Hardy .748 OPS (Counsell ?) 3rd Base: Koskie: .800 OPS (Braun .845 OPS) Left: Jenkins .797 OPS (Mench 829 OPS) Center: Hall .868 OPS (Clark ?) Right: Hart .870 OPS (Gross ?) If they were to match these OPS numbers, where would they rank position wise in the NL: Catcher: Estrada: 12th, Miller: 16th (min. 175 ABs for Catchers) 1st Base: Fielder: 7th (min 350 ABs for Position players) 2nd Base: Weeks: 6th Shortstop: Hardy: 8th 3rd Base: Koskie: 12th, Braun: 10th Left: Jenkins: 11th, Mench 10th Center: Hall: 3rd Right: Hart: 4th Based on this, players we have who are projected to be above average at their position: Weeks, Hall, and Hart (3) Players who are projected to be average at their position: Fielder, Hardy (2) Players who are below average at their position: Estrada, Koskie/Braun, Jenkins/Mench (3) Overall, even with these projected numbers, we are looking like a pretty average (at best) offense. One more comment, does anyone else find it funny, that on that list of pitchers, the worst pitcher is Jeff Suppan. I think that definitely speaks volumes about the depth we have with our pitching right now.

That and Burrell has a no trade contract, and I believe he said he wouldn't go anywhere but New York. Anyone else remember this?

I would like having Pena. Although I think he would be miscast as a clean up hitter. But, if we could get rid of Jenkins and Mench. I wouldn't mind having Pena and Gross splitting time in a corner OF spot as together they would provide some decent power to our lineup. And if Gross proves that his numbers from last year were a fluke, than we could still have the option of plugging Pena in full time. Lineup: (when Pena would start *Pena would start every game vs. Lefthanded pitchers and would play about a quarter of the games vs. Righthanders) Weeks Estrada Pena Fielder Hall Koskie Hart Hardy Lineup: (with Gross starting *all of his starts would come against right handed pitchers) Weeks Estrada Fielder Hall Gross Hart Koskie Hardy

I'm in favor of keeping Jenkins. Like it or not, Jenkins is currently the third best OF on our roster (although Gross might be better going forward, but he's still a bit of an unknown). Jenkins is in a contract year which could be a bit of motivation for him as well. I wouldn't be upset, however, if Doug decided to go with a Gross/Mench platoon, if he can get something decent for Jenkins. Jenkins still has value to this team (especially in the current FA market), so I'd hate to see him traded for a sack of marbles.

You would stick with that elitist statement. I'd expect nothing less from you. I wasn't saying we should make this trade, I was putting it up for discussion. For fun. Not so I could have elitist jerks go running about how drunk I have to be in order to make such a post. Yeah, your right, the Yankees system really has produced some serious duds. Who would ever want that Jeter guy, or Soriano, or Cano, or Williams etc. I understand, all their top prospects never amount to anything. And as far as saying Cano is not as good as his numbers, can you actually prove that? Does being in a star studded lineup automatically make a mediocre player put up superstar level numbers. The burden of proof is on you to prove that he is just a mediocre player, and so far I've seen nothing to disprove the fact that the guy hit .340 and slugged over .500 as a 23 year old in the middle of the New York media circus. But pitchers must not be throwing their best pitches to him, they must be lobbing the ball to the plate because they are afraid of the rest of the Yankee lineup. I don't believe we will be able to resign Benny. In today's market he is going to probably bring in a 100 Million dollar contract. That's something the Brewers can't afford. So that's why I see us only having two more years with Sheeter. Talent wise, there isn't that wide of a gap between the two teams in this trade. If you have read the posts in the thread, while most would turn this offer down, there are some who said they would accept it. Are you calling them drunk too? So until you come up with some actual facts to prove that Cano and Hughes are trash and that their numbers are just all smoke and mirrors, you can just take all your elitist egg nog comments and shove it.

The guy slugged over .500 as a 23 year old. I think the plate discipline will come, as it does with most players. Its true he probably won't maintain that average, but I'd expect his walks and his power to increase as he gets closer to his prime. The guy also is very good at putting the ball into play (one of the reasons for his high average) as he only struck out about 1/10 of the time in about 500 ABs. He's going to be an absolute stud at 2nd base. You honestly don't expect him to improve on his 23 year old season?

Yeah, because .890 OPS 2nd basemen (who are only 24) (and have a .984 Fielding Percentage) grow on trees, what was I thinking?! And to include the top pitching prospect in all of baseball along with him. And another midlevel prospect on top of that. Yikes, those Yankees are getting a steal here! The trade would fill out our lineup nicely: (And we'd have control of Cano for 4 more seasons.) Weeks Cano Hall Fielder Hart Koskie Estrada Hardy And while our rotation would take a step back (if Sheets has a healthy season), we add to it the league's top pitching prospect (who we'd have under our control for 6 years, instead of 2 years with Sheets) Capuano Bush Suppan Hughes Villenueva I thought it would be an interesting trade to talk about. I think I agree with the poster who said he'd tell the Yankees to "talk to us next season". But if Hughes goes out and shows he's a top of the rotation pitcher this year and Cano repeats or improves on his offensive numbers, I guess I wouldn't see the Yankees as being willing to make this kind of trade. I guess the big question is whether two years of Sheets is better than 4 years of Cano and 6 years of Hughes (and add to that the players we could sign with the money saved in the deal).