PeaveyFury

This is only true if you put zero value on defense. His defense was so bad his last year in Milwaukee that it eroded nearly all of his offensive value. Despite Oakland's ability to use a DH, Davis has STILL played enough in the field to tally an impressive -1.3 defensive WAR this year after -2.1 last year. That's right, -1.3 WAR for the whopping 11 games he played the field this year so far. He's epically bad in the outfield.

Come on, man. You can't say something like this and make much of the board discount the validity of your other points. Distortion works both ways- now you're expecting Peralta to be fodder from here? I'm somewhat convinced that there are people in this (and any, really) fanbase that would come away with criticisms of a season even if we won the World Series.

It seemed at first like James Lofton wasn’t sure what to say or when to say it. Now it seems like he’s always talking.

I'm rarely a fan of speaking in absolutes, but I'll go as far as saying that there's a 0.00% chance that the Brewers let him go. If he's not with the team next year it's because they traded him, and even that I'd put as a low probability because it would be selling very low.

Can I just post the laughing emoji? All I really want to do right here is post the laughing emoji. ?? I guess excellent might be a bit of a stretch, but he's been a 1.5-2-ish WAR player for much of his career before now. And he WAS excellent last year, but one year does not make a track record.

I think there's a decent amount of 'own prospect overvaluing' going on here, but the truth on their value lies somewhere between 'Rule V dump' and 'certain future major league contributor.' Reality is, many of the guys that were moved have flaws, some significant. I'm betting that the Brewers did their homework and very best to try and determine the players who had flaws that were likely to keep them from becoming quality major league players. The Chacin thread alone should be a nice reminder, though, of how bad of an idea it is to pre-judge a move or decide on its success after a week or two. People calling Chacin a bad signing would have been right in that time frame, and now....

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that his thought process will work out just fine by the time this is all done.

The reason they have to be bad contracts is because the Brewers need to get them to clear entirely to be able to negotiate. No team wants to risk putting in a claim on a guy like Zimmerman because of the likelihood that the Tigers would just let him go and the claiming team would let the Tigers off the hook for his remaining $50 million.

Until this morning, I didn't realize how terrible Zimmerman's contract is/has been for the Tigers... he signed a 5/$110 million contract, has $50 million+ still left, and has contributed about 1.2 WAR TOTAL in the nearly 3 seasons since signing. Terrible. I still think he's a possible add, but the Tigers would have to eat ~40 million for it to make sense to me.

Yeah, your overall point is very fair. There aren't a ton of guys who are both useful enough to want to acquire and likely to either make it to us or clear. They kind of have to be both solid and overpaid, and there's probably only a handful of guys that fit that mold...

That seems to imply that the Brewers weren't terribly close on Archer, but did kick the tires on bigger names like deGrom....

His breaking ball was fantastic. Control will always be the question regarding him, but he's truly looked great for us since coming back.

It works both ways, though: If the player makes it to us at the end of the waiver claims, we can not claim them and instead hope they clear altogether (since there would only be a team or two left)and then negotiate, avoiding the 'eating the whole contract' problem. A guy like Zimmerman seems plausible as an August add, IMO, with the Tigers eating lots of the contract.

I had the same thought, Eye Black.

So strange....

Locking... this is likely false.

I'm sure the Brewers WANT it to be Santana, but that will only happen if he shows that he has regained his lost power. The lineup loses sooo much power when facing LHP that I'm sure they'd love to get 2017 Santana back in vs. LHP.

Just to recap: No matter what statistics or analysis or anything shows, you're going to hate this move no matter what comes from it? Even if Shaw plays solid defense there the rest of the year because the team believed he can? Not sure that's fair at all. I don't think it required anyone to 'drink the coolade' to think that the staff might know what they're doing, or believes they're going to make it work. And yep, that thought process could be wrong, but I'm at least willing to see how things play out before calling it a disaster.

I think it also goes to show just how progressive this staff/f.o. is regarding 'breaking the traditional mold' in a lot of ways. I said in another thread that the Padres seem to think they're smarter than everyone else in the league but aren't.... I won't go so far as to claim that the Brewers are, but signs suggest they're trying things that indicate that they might be.

Well, thanks for providing that list. Let's review, then: Despite only 5 starts (4 really, since he left the Cleveland game after one out), Miley has been solidly above replacement level so far. It may not be pretty, but he has yet to give up more than 2 runs when he's pitched. And the rest of the rotation? Sure, there is room for improvement, but the team has 60 wins, and has rarely missed a beat despite substantial injuries and no contribution from Nelson. Yeah, DJ gets a lot of the credit, but you could also suggest that the front office may have had a better feel for the depth that was there than us fans actually did. This is why speaking in absolutes is dangerous. Despite your repeated assertations that the Brewers would sign another starter, they didn't. But the one they did sign (Chacin) has been an anchor in the rotation, and the other options available to them have been terrible for the teams they did sign with. Seems like the GM made the right decisions there. Go and actually look at Jesus' defensive performance this year- almost exactly average as a 1B. Not a DH at all. And Thames? Sure, he's more valuable as a DH. But he's missed significant time this year, and has still contributed enough with the bat to be valuable. How does that put 'heavy lifting' on Counsell, exactly? Isn't the manager supposed to determine how to get his best players on the field? Was the Matt Kemp stuff an actual, legitimate rumor, or just people speculating on a message board? Until his resurgance last year, Kemp looked even worse on paper than Braun, and the only reason a trade seemed to make sense was because he was overpaid for less years. If you saw his 2018 performance coming, please tell me tonight's Powerball numbers. You mean the trade to replace a terrible backup catcher who wasn't supposed to be the backup until another guy's career ended unexpectedly? And despite how Kratz has performed, he's actually been better than Bandy was in his time here and only slightly below replacement level... seems like they actually did upgrade the #2 catcher position via that no-cost move.... You mean that move that happened two seasons ago? Again, if you saw Scooter's explosion coming, I'll take those Lottery numbers. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt that Villar could have been predicted to step back some. But if we're not looking back in hindsight, what would things have looked like on this board if they had instead dumped the guy who had just OPS'd .826 with 62 steals as a 25 year old and kept the 27 year old who had regressed the previous two seasons and played below-average defense. And yeah, Miller didn't work out. But don't the acquisitions of Saladino and Miller show the willingness of the front office to try and fix the problems or get rid of some of the 'heavy lifting' you're claiming the coaches have to do? This also requires the assumption that those acquisitions (especially Miller) were only related to 2B and had nothing to do with trying to fix the unexpected Arcia problem, which is massively incorrect. Sure, I suppose it's puzzling on paper. But most of us would at least like to see two things- 1) how does Shaw actually look if he plays there, and/or 2) what does the team actually look like at the end of the day on Tuesday? Moaning about the move today doesn't even give it a chance to see whether it works out or not, or what comes next.

Boras already cost his client millions last year by rejecting the QO and misreading the market for his client. I'm not sure it's as completely cut-and-dried as you make it out to be. 'Another example' implies other instances. I'd certainly like to see the list...

Anyone else briefly wonder what happened this morning that I was missing

But there was NO market for Moustakas last year, which is why he's making $6.5 mil this year. I don't think it's completely crazy to think he'd do the 15 mil option. If not, he may still be interested in returning for a reasonable multi-year.

Isn't it also at least feasible to think that the results of the trades show what either the organization's view or the market's view was of their actual value? For all we know, these were truly the best trades these assets could have resulted in.

Remember, he changed his swing when he went to Cincy. One player is an exception, not a rule. Miller Park is a hitter-friendly park.