MNBrew

I love the Harden-rotation, Suppan-'pen idea. I'd love it all the more if they could free up a few more dollars and make the necessary moves to get Vazquez from Atlanta (yes, still dreaming!) AND still sign Mulder as a reclamation project & AAA depth. As to the rotation prospects for guys like Axford/Butler/Narveson or any other late-season '09 callup, the Brewers need a much greater infusion of talent and/or promising prospects into the rotation that what these 3 represent at this point in time.

Maybe I'm reading the tone wrong, but it sure seems many folks are confusing 3- to <6-year arbitration with FA arbitration. The difference is in speculating what a guy might get awarded. If a 6+ year player accepts arby, he does it knowing the team is willing to spend the money to sign him. And he accepts it because he feels it's going to be his best playing & paying situation. RARELY does a 6+ year FA who accepts arby actually go to arby. That version of arby is a whole different landscape (albeit with similar formats, tenets, premises, etc.) than arby for players w/ 3-6 years of experience.

TH's blog is loaded with doofuses who like to make these guarantees. Usually appear early in the thread. One word: trolls.

I think if I'm Melvin, I'm still doing everything reasonably possible to get Vazquez (and not Lowe) from Atlanta. Then I maybe put my eggs in the basket of Harden or Bedard, plus Mulder and a 2nd low-risk/incentive-heavy comeback guy (Sheets!!!!!!!). So, dreaming... Gallardo Vazquez Bedard/Harden Parra Bush/Suppan Capuano, Sheets, Mulder, Halama all become nice potential depth. If any of them start out-pitching someone in the rotation, you'd have to figure things were going well enough that you could trade Suppan and only pay part of his contract when some other team (Yankees? Red Sox?) end up with enough injuries & desperation. (Like I said, I'm dreaming!)

To clarify: I do wish they had offered arby to Lopez, whether to keep him or get the pick. Either would've been quite good. But I also can't fault Melvin's logic at all. He simply has to save every possible dollar to address the pitching needs.

When Orlando was my home during the Magic's first few seasons, I could not believe how terrible an announcer Chip Caray was. Obviously either no one else realized the Magic would be an NBA team, so they didn't bother applying for the job, or Caray just got the job on account of his bloodlines. The strength of that first (several-year) impression has lasted 20 years now. I really prefer it when he's not the announcer. I can admit, however, that he's become tolerable and serviceable. Even when he went to the Cubs, though, he wasn't anything great, not even by the end of his time there. All in all, this is really non-news. I think the story's only getting some "play" because there's nothing else newsworthy happening in baseball yet.

I can see Melvin's strategy and I fully appreciate it. Yeah, any CC/Sheets/draft pick comparisons could be argued to be "apples & oranges" to this, but the roster & payroll roulette Melvin would've played just wasn't worth the POSSIBILITY of a sandwich pick (you might still be proven right, but no one can know for a fact right now that it would be a sure thing). Realistically, if you were Melvin RIGHT NOW, what's your greater priority to PREVENT: another 162-game season with a rotation so full of black holes that also ends up decimating the whole bullpen, too? or losing out on one possible sandwich pick next June? Obviously many of you feel differently, but if I'm Doug Melvin, I've gotta put my eggs entirely in the basket of fixing one the worst pitching staffs in all of MLB. Other thoughts: - I'm FAR less concerned about an additional sandwich pick than I am about having the best depth possible on the IF given Weeks' injury history and McGehee's & Escobar's relative inexperience (and I do really like both those guys). But they could still re-sign Lopez anyway (it is a possibility, however unlikely it may seem). - The thing is, if Weeks gets hurt again -- and it's hard not to see that happening at some point -- Melvin may still be able to go out & get Lopez all over again. Roster-wise, my greater fear is not having either Counsell OR Lopez on the roster.

From that list . . . Wolf, Harden, & Bedard in that order. Bedard's numbers are clearly better. Harden's health record, while dubious, is still better than Bedard's over the past couple years. By the numbers, Davis seems to be a noticeably less extreme version of Suppan. On the other hand, he'd also definitely be an improvement over what we saw in the Brewers' rotation most of last year. I'd take him as an improvement over the status quo, but hardly the first guy to go after.

Completely wasted by making every throw from his heels and not getting his body into it. He's one of the worst throwing outfielders I've ever seen, it's like he was never taught to do it properly. Add to that his maddening proclivity to stiffly swing two feet over the top of any ball pitched less than 30 inches off the ground, and you can count me among the group that's ready for an upgrade at RF.I wasn't suggesting Hart's an All-Star in his present form. I think he could rebound to that level -- and I'd like to see it happen -- but of course no one knows for sure if that will or won't occur. And I do agree, if he only sustains his '09 level of production & habit patterns, the Brewers could certainly stand an upgrade in RF.

This is speculation just like so much else that's out there, but so far we've heard speculation of the Brewers coomunication with or interest in... Carl Pavano John Smoltz John Lackey Doug Davis Jarrod Washburn Roy Halladay Derek Lowe Javiez Vazquez Mark Mulder Edwin Jackson Ben Sheets Randy Wolf Given the market, that's a relatively respectable list. I'd love to see them going hard after Josh Johnson of the Marlins, too. On this thread's topic of Pavano, the guy pitched pretty darn well once he became a Twin. He'd certainly be an improvement over how Suppan & Looper & Bush pitched last year.

That has some definite appeal. But Ankiel's showing all the endurance as a fielder as he showed staying power as a pitcher -- and all this with less-than-Cameron caliber results at the plate (save a slightly lower K rate). Much as I'd hate to give up Hart, I think the Brewers REALLY need Vazquez. I do like the Hinske idea for a 4th OF.

What a difference a year makes. Last year this time, it seemed to be Milwaukee vs. retirement, & there was no reason to suspect Counsell would come back & have the year he had. Now he's highly sought after. Good for him -- he earned that! I hardly think anything's guaranteed about him going elsewhere. And no one should be intimidated that Olney mentions the Yankees and Red Sox as possible fits. Heck, about any team is a possible fit. Olney's just speculating. Olney draws more attention & readers, though, if he mentions those 2 teams. But heck, how is this different than any other winter? Those two teams are ALWAYS linked to nearly every good FA on the market. The thing is, realistically, no one's likely offering him a starting job. The question simply becomes dollars & years. The Brewers could realistically do either or both. Then the question becomes comparing the degree of the need for him (his skill set + quality depth offensively & defensively) vs. the cost, and what that would do to the rest of their offseason needs. I hope Counsell returns, and I'd miss Counsell if he went elsewhere. But I'd sure feel we didn't lose much if we signed Vizquel in his place.

The mention of Prior generates buzz, but there's likely little on the diamond to match the buzz of the name. For their first 5 years, mention of Prior & Mauer had the heavy slant of the Twins making the worse choice at the top of that draft. I like that the Twins were right. But I like it even better that the Cubs were wrong. Bedard & Sheets might fit the "reclamation" category before long...

Because it is. When I am talking about it being Harts last year I am talking about the next coming season as it being Harts final year with the Brewers. Since we are in the off season now I'm just calling this the start of the 2010 season so I am referring to the next upcoming season when I say it is his last year.Your explanation lost me after your first sentence. I took your initial remark to mean 2010 would be his last. A prediction's still just an opinion, but whatever . . . Your main point seems to be that the Brewers need much better RF production/talent than they had last year, & I fully agree. Hart has speed, a strong arm, has hit for good power (combo of 20+ HRs & 40+ 2Bs), solid BA (though that's slipped the last year-plus), and driven in plenty of runs. I still see him as a 5-tool player -- he just needs to put it all together again. The problem is that his game has holes that have become increasingly evident. My hope is that he gets back to realizing his potential, and for at least a while he stands to be a bit more affordable for All-Star caliber production. However, if his '09 stats (pro-rated up to 150 games) or health trends prove to be the new norm from here on out, I fully agree it makes more sense for the Crew to include him in a deal for other assets. Back to the original topic... The main non-pitching FA needs I see for the Brewers either have to be better starters than we have or, at the minimum, have to give us top-quality depth: - Re-sign Counsell ASAP. - Lopez returning would be a good insurance move all around. Escobar's young, Weeks gets injured too often, and neither Gamel or McGehee have long-term success in the bigs yet. I want a strong backup prospect besides just Counsell (not dissing his great '09, however), especially whose offense profiles like the stereotypical bats at the corners. I like the idea of Heether, but last winter many of us liked to count on Brad Nelson, too.... - Either a starting-caliber OF a stronger 4th OF candidate than Jody Gerut. If Gerut eventually proves to be a solid 4th OF, then we have 2 guys who can fight for more PT in the positive way Gerut & Bourgeois never really did. - A solid proven C to team w/ Lucroy/Salome (ideally not just Rivera, though I still see him as some degree of asset) -- in other words, someone we'd all feel very comfortable with if he had to start 100 games in 2010. Rivera has his merits but was pretty lousy at the plate last year. That's not an impossible list. The key for Melvin & Co. is not just to make "any" move, but in each case a really good decision or move. If any such move can put the Brewers in an even better long-term position financially, then we'd be talking genius-level moves.

Most of your various logics each make sense, but I find it odd that you state this being Hart's last year on the Brewers as a fact. We're all entitled to our opinions. I think the idea of Hart being non-tendered is more your wishful thinking than anything else. Hart's talent isn't the kind that the Brewers can afford to just walk away from. If he's not a Brewer in '10, I think it's only because he helped net other more-positive assets in a trade. IF Hart turns it around (yes, a big IF), he's a very decent player for the money. It's not like he is in much of a position to commandeer a huge arby raise. He was adequate at best in '09, not overly good, and missed much of the year.

The pros & cons of Harden have been well-discussed here, but I wonder if having a chance to work with his original ML pitching coach again (Peterson) might not be some sort of enticement. - Sign Harden. That's 1 of Melvin's 2. - Trade for Vazquez. That's the 2nd of Melvin's 2. - Sign Sheets (if possible) and Mulder to make-good, low-risk deals that would provide great depth if the moves would work out. Aiming high is hugely important.

Played some of the best OF defense in all of baseball would probably be the reason. His hitting improved last year as well, even if the slash stats don't show it. Thats not to say he won't play his way out of the job though. Ennder, you got one thing right for sure: Gomez's defense is unbelievable. He really is that good. The thing is, Gomez's hitting DIDN'T improve last year. It got worse. He LOST the starting CF job because of his offense. If he had improved, he would've played much more, especially when Delmon Young DIDN'T produce much through July. How can you possibly suggest Gomez improved offensively? When the Twins finally had Span starting in CF everyday, it was still Delmon Young starting everyday in LF. Gomez had clearly played his way OUT of the OF starting "rotation," if you will, that Gardenhire was forced to deal with all year since he started with 5 (at the time) starting-caliber OFs and 4 positions to share between them (3 OFs + DH). By the end of the year, there were 4 clear starters and then 1 guy who didn't deserve to start, and so he didn't: Gomez. Anyone who pays attention to the Twins up here knows Gomez got worse last year. Even the Twins' Group Sales woman I deal with suggested when I called her Friday afternoon (to line up our groups sales purchase) that Gomez has great skills but can be a real knucklehead at times. That's pretty much common knowledge amongst attentive Twins fans. All that said, I sure hope the guy does make improvements at the plate commensurate with his God-given talent & the level of his other skills (speed, defense). One September game I took one of my sons to, we got there early enough to watch a lot of the pre-game stretching/sprinting/catch down the LF line. Gomez was practicing swerving twist routes at devastating speeds. How fast this guy is is truly unbelievable. One thing that was indicative of the Gomez's failures to improve this year was that in '08 he had plenty of bunt singles, but this year the season was more than half over before he got his first bunt single. Gomez has a little bit of pop in his bat. But he & his team are truly best served if he NEVER EVER thinks about trying to hit a HR for the rest of his life. Hopefully he doesn't suffer from the "headstrong & foolish" delusion about hitting with any power -- a combination that plagued Alex Sanchez & eventually earned him his ticket out of town.

He'd take more to get than Kawakami, but I think I'd love to see Vazquez in next year's rotation.

Did you forget that RF right now is Corey Hart? You can't sell low on everyone. Give the guy a chance to get healthy & rebound. Gamel's no shoo-in to be moved to the OF and should still be worth more in trade than Hart, at least in some ways, because other than the last couple months of '09, he's totally mashed in the minors and not looked overmatched in his first few ML cups of coffee, and he's got stud-hitter potential --- and hasn't had enough of a chance to totally blow that mystique or scouting report, either. Due to his poor & injury-inhibited '09 season, Cain's gotta be an '11 arrival at the soonest unless he magically puts it all together this year to the point that the Brewers can't resist bringing him up. Remember that under Melvin & Nichols, for the most part they're really more inclined to make sure prospects earn their promotions & aren't overly rushed to the bigs.

Trading Hardy for Perkins, Gomez, or both would amount to giving up a recently top-tier SS for two young guys with enough flaws to suggest they'll likely never amount to being worth close to the same value COMBINED as Hardy was for multiple years before his '09 slump. Gomez at the plate is like Cameron MINUS the power, RBIs, and walks -- in other words, what's left? not much!!! Perkins has never really performed overly well. A huge no thanks to either unless they were throw-ins along with a player of real actual value!

In the winter, if someone is arby-eligible and his team does not tender him a contract (thus non-tender), the team is rescinding their rights to the player, which then makes him a free agent. Waivers at this time of year are a possible issue when a team is removing a player from their 40-man to outright or somehow otherwise assign him to one of their minor-league teams. Non-tendering and winter-time waivers are unrelated issues. Oh, and as others have stated, Wang is one of many potential buy-low candidates. I'd think other injured guys might be more immediately decent potential successful Brewers pitchers. But who knows?

Hopefully this as as good a move as all the PR about Peterson will make it sound. Of course, without a serious talent upgrade, especially in the rotation, it wouldn't make the first bit of difference if the pitching coach were Cy Young or Santa Claus.

Furthermore, there's no guarantee that the M's want to pick up Wilson's $8.4M option for the type of production he gave. Hardy would be close to that even if he's only slightly better than last year, and at roughly half the price. The young Toronto and Seattle pitchers intrigue me.

I've watched Blackburn pitch way too many times the past 2 years, both on TV and in person. Blackburn can look halfway decent. But far too often he looks ordinary-at-best to very scary. Gamel should net more in return than Blackburn.

While at times the guy has driven me (and many of you) nuts, I'd exercise the option on Looper & hope he does the same. The guy was appreciably better than Suppan & Bush, plus he pulled of what he did on a crap knee all year. I'm guessing that impacted him worse than we know and may have had something to do with "finishing" his pitches -- or failing to do so -- since so many were left up & were hammered halfway to the Summerfest grounds. From the "just playing" dept.: Brewers get: Halladay & Vernon Wells (& some serious salary relief from Toronto, too -- that's one ugly contract for injured-Hart-level production) Jays get: Hardy, Gamel, Jeffress or other A-ball/young stud pitcher, & Suppan In other words, some version of the Halladay trade, but include Wells & Suppan in the deal.